CFZ Key Post-draft Question: Are we better as a team in 2024 than 2023?

[DuncanIso]

better...no way.

Guyton is not better than tyron even if tyron misses a few games. He could be better than steele was last year if guyton plays RT.
Kneeland isn't even the best backup DE on the roster so no upgrade there either. He's a body that allows them to move on from DLaw next year.
Cooper might start at Center but really he's next years RG and no he aint better than martin. He might be better than Holland to play center this year but I dont know about that yet.
Marist is a cox replacement. projected Nickle LB with tackling issues. Doubt he starts this year.
The rest are all backups at most.

I think TJ Bass gets a look at RG.

CooperB is gonna be a center for a decade.

 

[DuncanIso]

I think beebe will way better than you think. Especially in the run game.

Yes.

He’s All American/All Conf.

 

[DuncanIso]

The guy you’re penciling in at center has never played a snap at that position in his life.

I believe he has played all 4 OL positions.

 

[DuncanIso]

They'll be better but won't have a record as good. Dallas is playing 9 teams with winning records from 2024 but I think they'll be able to run the ball and stop the run more effectively. It's amazing they won 12 games being average in both of those areas.

Agree. 2024 schedule is brutal.

 

[SBWinner]

Most post-draft analyses being offered by the football “experts“ tend to focus on each individual draft pick - their specific individual skills, their “value” in terms of when they were drafted, etc. What they rarely mention is what does this draft do collectively to make us a better football team? On top of that, you can never judge a draft before the new players have even played a meaningful down of football.

Overall I thought this year’s draft was generally good. We addressed two of the weakest areas this team had last year: The ability to run the ball and the ability to stop the run.

The acquisition of Tyler Guyton and Cooper Bebee should bring a long term improvement on the O- line.The acquisition of Marshawn Kneeland should have an impact on improving stopping the run, assuming he develops quickly. Not drafting a RB is the dangling need still hanging.

So back to question, Are we better in 2024 AS A TEAM after this draft? Here are my answers to that:

• In the short run, meaning the 2024 season, on paper this team does NOT appear to be as good as last year’s team that won the NFC East and earned the #2 seed. They were pitiful in the playoffs last year but had a 12-5 regular season.
• You can’t lose a HOF LT like Tyron Smith (although often injured last few years) and expect a rookie LT to walk in the door and immediately be better.
• We may not immediately see Cooper Bebee be better than Tyler Biadaz was at Center. I certainly think Bebee has more upside than Biadaz so after a year or two Bebee may exceed Biadaz. And Bebee may end up being the long term replacement for Zack Martin.
• In the next couple of seasons, if this year’s draft as well as the 2022 and 2023 classes show improvement, the 2025 team may be better than the 2024 version.

In conclusion, obviously it’s way too early to know how good this year’s draft will be. But it’s not too early to see that at least on paper this team is not clearly better NOW. But for 2025, that maybe different.

Do you think this draft has made the 2024 team better than the 2023 team?

TJ Bass is the likely long-term replacement for Martin. Bebee is the likely starter at center for his initial 4 year contract, and will be resigned if he outperforms his draft position and what our last center did.

Kneeland replaces DLaw in a year or so, is cheaper, and likely not as worn down. He brings fresh legs to the line and gives the Cowboys, for this year at least, two competent edge setters which we desperately need. Guyton is a likely 10 year starter at LT and gives us a very nice, huge, massively athletic left side of the line to both protect the QB and help with the run.

What fans have a heard time wrapping their head around is the fact that the draft is to replace players on the roster who are aging, too expensive, or not performing. It's not stacking talent 3 layers deep like in college where you can recruit 1/3 of your team every year. The NFL is a constant roster replacement and churn league, and has a cap which forces teams to replenish with young players every year.

 

[boysfanindc]

Wilson was on the practice squad at the end of the 2023 season

He was a free agent this year who signed so a free agent signing.

 

[Aven8]

Yeah. It really sucked for the 49ers when the offense went through Jerry Rice.

You’re right. Dak is way better than Montana….

 

[RonnieT24]

Let's do it one by one..

QB - Dak in year 2 with McCarthy stands to be better than Dak in year 1. - better
RB - Zeke a buncha dudes vs Pollard and a buncha dudes.. - push
LT - HOF Tyron vs rook - worse
LG - Tyler with another year of strength and experience - better
C - Rook vs Biadasz? You say a rookie won't be better from day 1. Did being a rookie stop Fredrick from being better than whoever he replaced.
RG - Zack a year older but won't miss training camp.. - push
RT - Steele a year further away from the ACL - better
TE - Ferg, Hendershot, Schoon and Stephens - better.
WR1 - CD is it possible for him to be better than he was last year? Probably not.. but I don't see a dropoff either.. push .
WR2 - Cooks and Dak were not on the same page a lot of last year.. but got better as the year wore on .. until things went south in the playoffs. Still call it a push.
WR3 - Turpin, Tolbert, Brooks. I would expect all of them to be better this year than last

DE - Micah will continue to be a beast and Lawrence is still playing at a high level. Williams and Gholson will spell them - push. This will take steps forward though if the light bulb goes on for Williams.
3-tech - Osa is still improving but hit a wall down the stretch, maybe maxed out? The youngsters (Fehoko and the rooks) will be key here - but so as not to be a homer let's say we take a step back - worse
1 tech - Mazi and the rook vs Hankins and Mazi/Gallimore. worse until proven otherwise.
ILB - Hendricks and Clark vs Clark and Bell? Is this a trick question? - better
OLB - Overshown and an actual linebacker vs Kearse and another safety.. - better
SS - Wilson and Bell vs Wilson and Thomas - push
FS - Hooker and Izzy vs Hooker and Izzy again- push
CB - Diggs back, Bland and a healthy J-Lew ... better (as long as Diggs suffers no ACL hangover.)

Kickers - push


So by my count I have 9 position groups getting better, 4 getting worse and 7 staying about the same. Obviously any of these could go in either direction but if you look at it objectively, this team has a higher chance of being BETTER in 2024 than it does being worse. And that's before we see what the rookies can add.

Obviously until they take the field none of this amounts to a hill o beans.. but I reject the auto-leap to "we're gonna suck" just because we didn't sign some overpriced big name.

 

[DuncanIso]

I still dont see any departure that is not replacable. TP didn’t have a good year, TSmith is an HOFer but an older vet that is easily replaceabe, (he had a decent year) and the rest are JAGs. Good players but nothing special. Only real issue for me is RB and I think that will be fixed by opening day. Are they better IDK. But they got younger and nastier in the trenches and I am all for the youth movement. The old country club players needs to be put on notice

It easy to replace an elite LT1.

But Guyton looks the part.

His lack of AllConf credentials is a red flag.

 

[DuncanIso]

Let's do it one by one..

QB - Dak in year 2 with McCarthy stands to be better than Dak in year 1. - better
RB - Zeke a buncha dudes vs Pollard and a buncha dudes.. - push
LT - HOF Tyron vs rook - worse
LG - Tyler with another year of strength and experience - better
C - Rook vs Biadasz? You say a rookie won't be better from day 1. Did being a rookie stop Fredrick from being better than whoever he replaced.
RG - Zack a year older but won't miss training camp.. - push
RT - Steele a year further away from the ACL - better
TE - Ferg, Hendershot, Schoon and Stephens - better.
WR1 - CD is it possible for him to be better than he was last year? Probably not.. but I don't see a dropoff either.. push .
WR2 - Cooks and Dak were not on the same page a lot of last year.. but got better as the year wore on .. until things went south in the playoffs. Still call it a push.
WR3 - Turpin, Tolbert, Brooks. I would expect all of them to be better this year than last

DE - Micah will continue to be a beast and Lawrence is still playing at a high level. Williams and Gholson will spell them - push. This will take steps forward though if the light bulb goes on for Williams.
3-tech - Osa is still improving but hit a wall down the stretch, maybe maxed out? The youngsters (Fehoko and the rooks) will be key here - but so as not to be a homer let's say we take a step back - worse
1 tech - Mazi and the rook vs Hankins and Mazi/Gallimore. worse until proven otherwise.
ILB - Hendricks and Clark vs Clark and Bell? Is this a trick question? - better
OLB - Overshown and an actual linebacker vs Kearse and another safety.. - better
SS - Wilson and Bell vs Wilson and Thomas - push
FS - Hooker and Izzy vs Hooker and Izzy again- push
CB - Diggs back, Bland and a healthy J-Lew ... better (as long as Diggs suffers no ACL hangover.)

Kickers - push


So by my count I have 9 position groups getting better, 4 getting worse and 7 staying about the same. Obviously any of these could go in either direction but if you look at it objectively, this team has a higher chance of being BETTER in 2024 than it does being worse. And that's before we see what the rookies can add.

Obviously until they take the field none of this amounts to a hill o beans.. but I reject the auto-leap to "we're gonna suck" just because we didn't sign some overpriced big name.

Good stuff

 

[Cowboy4ever]

Here’s a look at the players we lost vs the players we’ve added:

DEPARTURES:

• Tyron Smith, LT (Jets)
• Tony Pollard, RB (Titans)
• Johnathan Hankins, DT (Seahawks)
• Dorance Armstrong, DE (Commanders)
• Tyler Biadasz, C (Commanders)
• Dante Fowler, DE (Commanders)
• Noah Igbinoghene, CB (Commanders)
• Neville Gallimore, DT (Dolphins)
• Michael Gallup, WR (released)
• Leighton Vander Esch, LB (released)

ADDITIONS:
Free agents:

• Eric Kendricks, LB
• Ezekiel Elliott, RB
• Royce Freeman, RB
• Jourdan Lewis, CB
• Rico Dowdle, RB
• Chuma Edoga, OL
• C.J. Goodwin, ST
• Trent Sieg, LS

Draft picks:

• Round 1: OT Tyler Guyton
• Round 2: DE Marshawn Kneeland
• Round 3: G/C Cooper Beebe
• Round 3: LB Marist Liufau
• Round 5: CB Caelen Carson
• Round 6: WR Ryan Flournoy
• Round 7: OL Nathan Thomas
• Round 7: DT Justin Rogers

The only player on that list of departures that we may should have kept for their price was Smith. He is being replaced by a rookie - always a gamble but 77 is headed to the HOF so replacing him at any point with anyone was going to have the same affect. I liked Armstrong as a rotational guy but he is not someone to lose sleep over not having. The rest of that list is meh at best. I don't think we will be in the SB this year but it sure as heck isn't because we didn't draft a 3rd or 4th round RB.

 

[rambo2]

“is a nasty player”? What seems “nasty” in the Big 12 may be pedestrian in the NFL. If he starts or plays at all it will be because he’s learned to play the position well enough to contribute in an NFL game. He won’t get playing time because of some mean streak in his demeanor. I think he’ll find the men he’s trying to block are not intimidated by “nasty”.

He blocked Sweat, Murphy, and Overshown.

 

[MikeT22]

So by my count I have 9 position groups getting better, 4 getting worse and 7 staying about the same. Obviously any of these could go in either direction but if you look at it objectively, this team has a higher chance of being BETTER in 2024 than it does being worse. And that's before we see what the rookies can add.

Obviously until they take the field none of this amounts to a hill o beans.. but I reject the auto-leap to "we're gonna suck" just because we didn't sign some overpriced big name.

That tally sounds good, until you look at the details.

Dak is still the QB going into year 9. But you list QB as “better” because yr 2 of MM as OC.
I’d say QB - same.

Backup WRs Tolbert/Turpin/Brooks listed as better when they are the same returning players.

The only areas we really added some talent was OL and LB. Even then it depends on how quick the rookies get up to speed.

Overall though it’ll be a tough sell thinking significant improvement will come from a number of returning players stepping up and taking a leap forward. But that’s really the only way to sell basically “running it back” with no real additions outside of the draft.

I don’t care about signing big names. But I am interested in adding talent and seeing the team improved. Don’t see where we did that overall.

 

[DandyDon52]

I would say it isnt likely.
Partly it depends on if the drafted guys can contribute , some be starters? there is no way to know what happens with them.
lost many guys, added some unknowns.

I think the schedule will be tougher this season. Wash should be hard to beat , and phil, if they get their problems solved, they should be good.
Dallas will have a hard time getting 12 wins again.
I am thinking they get 9-10

I did like the players drafted, there could be some winners in that bunch. time will tell.

 

[charron]

I think TJ Bass gets a look at RG.

CooperB is gonna be a center for a decade.

I hope he is the center going forward. But some don't think he can be. But what I know is he'd make a dam good guard.

 

[quickccc]

Most post-draft analyses being offered by the football “experts“ tend to focus on each individual draft pick - their specific individual skills, their “value” in terms of when they were drafted, etc. What they rarely mention is what does this draft do collectively to make us a better football team? On top of that, you can never judge a draft before the new players have even played a meaningful down of football.

Overall I thought this year’s draft was generally good. We addressed two of the weakest areas this team had last year: The ability to run the ball and the ability to stop the run.

The acquisition of Tyler Guyton and Cooper Bebee should bring a long term improvement on the O- line.The acquisition of Marshawn Kneeland should have an impact on improving stopping the run, assuming he develops quickly. Not drafting a RB is the dangling need still hanging.

• You can’t lose a HOF LT like Tyron Smith (although often injured last few years) and expect a rookie LT to walk in the door and immediately be better.
• We may not immediately see Cooper Bebee be better than Tyler Biadaz was at Center. I certainly think Bebee has more upside than Biadaz so after a year or two Bebee may exceed Biadaz. And Bebee may end up being the long term replacement for Zack Martin.
• In the next couple of seasons, if this year’s draft as well as the 2022 and 2023 classes show improvement, the 2025 team may be better than the 2024 version.

In conclusion, obviously it’s way too early to know how good this year’s draft will be. But it’s not too early to see that at least on paper this team is not clearly better NOW. But for 2025, that maybe different.

Do you think this draft has made the 2024 team better than the 2023 team?

- which means we'd have to explore the NFL draft again for a starting center, and develop him past the growing pains of center at the NFL
level/ What if Cooper develops into a standout center by 2025 ?

- And i'll wait it out til I see what becomes of Nathan Thomas and TJ Bass first, before I think about moving out Beebe from center. JMHO.

- Run blocking is not supposedly a forte of Guyton, ..and bigger doesn't always mean better, ..more so than it does per skill set, imo.
A Rashawn Slater may not fit the bill and prototype

- Beebe has to master the center role ..and learn/master it at the NFL level... that could be growing pains as he tries to develop it as a
inexperienced new center rookie. We'll have to see what his shot-gun snaps are ,..how less fumbled snaps under QB ..how he handles the
OL signal calls, adjust on the run with bltizes, stunts/twists and line games of opposing defenses.

- I'd like to believe he eventually will .. in due time. But starting out Day 1 out of the blocks ? Should be a much more physical, stronger and
athletic presences than Tyler Biadasz was .

 

[quickccc]

Side question, how many believe Mike Zimmer is an upgrade over Dan Quinn? That will likely be the biggest onfield difference from 2023 to 2024

- i would like to believe it .. but i'm not sure if the FO has properly supply Zimm with the proper pieces he will need, especially when it
comes to the interior DT middle.

- Besides depth being horribly thin and concerning, who do we have that we ca rely upon, should Mazi again be slow to develop and
produce ?

- Are we gonna wait until we are road- plowed vs run, until we finally decide to seek a Hankins- like trade in mid-season ?

- We tend to wait until we hit a brick wall reality, ..before we finally decide to address a certain position ... reactive instead of pro-active.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

We are unequivocally not better than last year.

There's not the same level of quality of depth at certain positions.

 

[zeke21]

Let's do it one by one..

QB - Dak in year 2 with McCarthy stands to be better than Dak in year 1. - better
RB - Zeke a buncha dudes vs Pollard and a buncha dudes.. - push
LT - HOF Tyron vs rook - worse
LG - Tyler with another year of strength and experience - better
C - Rook vs Biadasz? You say a rookie won't be better from day 1. Did being a rookie stop Fredrick from being better than whoever he replaced.
RG - Zack a year older but won't miss training camp.. - push
RT - Steele a year further away from the ACL - better
TE - Ferg, Hendershot, Schoon and Stephens - better.
WR1 - CD is it possible for him to be better than he was last year? Probably not.. but I don't see a dropoff either.. push .
WR2 - Cooks and Dak were not on the same page a lot of last year.. but got better as the year wore on .. until things went south in the playoffs. Still call it a push.
WR3 - Turpin, Tolbert, Brooks. I would expect all of them to be better this year than last

DE - Micah will continue to be a beast and Lawrence is still playing at a high level. Williams and Gholson will spell them - push. This will take steps forward though if the light bulb goes on for Williams.
3-tech - Osa is still improving but hit a wall down the stretch, maybe maxed out? The youngsters (Fehoko and the rooks) will be key here - but so as not to be a homer let's say we take a step back - worse
1 tech - Mazi and the rook vs Hankins and Mazi/Gallimore. worse until proven otherwise.
ILB - Hendricks and Clark vs Clark and Bell? Is this a trick question? - better
OLB - Overshown and an actual linebacker vs Kearse and another safety.. - better
SS - Wilson and Bell vs Wilson and Thomas - push
FS - Hooker and Izzy vs Hooker and Izzy again- push
CB - Diggs back, Bland and a healthy J-Lew ... better (as long as Diggs suffers no ACL hangover.)

Kickers - push


So by my count I have 9 position groups getting better, 4 getting worse and 7 staying about the same. Obviously any of these could go in either direction but if you look at it objectively, this team has a higher chance of being BETTER in 2024 than it does being worse. And that's before we see what the rookies can add.

Obviously until they take the field none of this amounts to a hill o beans.. but I reject the auto-leap to "we're gonna suck" just because we didn't sign some overpriced big name.

Like your approach but disagree with some assessments. Using your template:
QB (Worse) - Dak sucked for the past 8 years, likely to suck again this year. Is another year with less mobility and no trust from his team - worse (because we didn't upgrade/replace/draft/try)
RB (Worse) - Zeke a buncha dudes vs Pollard and a buncha dudes.. - worse (I love Zeke, love the dude but he is well past his prime. Pollard at least had some home run ability and a burst of speed - Even if Zeke clears the LOS, he can't take it to the house anymore. A 'long' run for Zeke is only going to get you 8-9 yards at best)
LT (Worse) - HOF Tyron vs rook - worse
LG (Better) - Tyler with another year of strength and experience - better
C (Worse) - Rook vs Biadasz? - Worse (maybe better by end of season, but for all the whining, Biadasz was serviceable, rooks on the OL generally take at least 2 seasons to develop the feel for the game)
RG (Push) - Zack a year older but won't miss training camp.. - push
RT (Push) - Steele a year further away from the ACL - push (Steele isn't going to improve much from where he was at the end of last season)
TE (Push) - Ferg, Hendershot, Schoon and Stephens - push (we didn't add or subtract from this group, why assume progression?)
WR1 (Push) - CD is it possible for him to be better than he was last year? Probably not.. but I don't see a dropoff either.. push
WR2/3 (Worse) - Cooks/ Gallop - lost Gallop and Cooks a year older - worse
WR4+ (Push) - Turpin, Tolbert, Brooks. - push (you are expecting improvement why?? They still have the same crap QB throwing to the them with the same stupid playbook and playcaller???)

DE (Push) - Micah/Lawrence/Others - push.
3-tech (Worse) - Osa/ ???? - no help over the overseason for an area of need and if you aren't improving then you are going backwards in this league - worse
1 tech (Worse) - Lost experience and our best - worse
ILB (Better) - Hendricks and Clark vs Clark and Bell? - better
OLB (Better) - Overshown and an actual linebacker vs Kearse and another safety.. - better
SS (Push) - Wilson and Bell vs Wilson and Thomas - push
FS (Push) - Hooker and Izzy vs Hooker and Izzy again- push
CB (Better) - Diggs back, Bland and a healthy J-Lew ... better

So I've got 7 worse, 4 better, 8 push. For me that means we are, categorically, worse. Remembering that 'push' can mean good as we were a very good team last year. We have been a very good team for a while.. just missing the SAME things every year that we don't address.

Positions we needed to address and didn't: QB, RB, DL (3 and 1) - we addressed the OLine through the draft but they will be a season or two away at best. I've got no problem with using this year as a dip and then load up on skill players next year after we get our trenches set.. but the glaring mistake is if we then pay Dak and anchor ourselves to a stupid contract.

 

[stinkface]

He did not get one more big payday. He wanted an opportunity to play for a team that was actually trying to win a SB.

Ii would imagine the Jets have very little chance to go to a Super Bowl. Far less then us. If he plays a lot in NY he will make more then here, pure and simple. Jets are the worst team in their division.