Lael Collins vs. Zack Martin vs. Leary

[AbeBeta]

The kids needs A LOT of improvement with his balance and his footwork is nowhere near up to par in what you want in a tackle. If you want to talk about criticisms that are just small criticisms, it's his use of hands and creating holes for his RB. Both are nitpicky that came from scouts and something he'll do fine in. The former criticisms are not small issues, they are absolute problems with him that need to be addressed or he needs to play in a position where those flaws won't hurt his game.



A good representation of Collins. You can evaluate him yourself and see exactly if these problems are small or not.

I'm not seeing real issues here aside from playing on a bad team

 

[windjc]

you are either blind or never have seen the boys play if you think Leary is CLOSE to Martin.

ProFootballFocus.com that ranks players based on grades from every play of every game (pretty decent paid resource) ranked our offensive line thusly:

Travis Frederick - 2nd best C at 19.8 rating
Zack Martin - 3rd best RG at 21.6 rating
Tyron Smith - 6th best LT at 21.6 rating
Ronald Leary - 7th best LG at 5.0 rating
Doug Free - 8th best RT at 8.5 rating


So, Leary was the 7th best LG in the league. Not too far behind Martin who was rated the 3rd best RG. I would say that is CLOSE, in so far as it's pretty darn good.

And I think this adds credence to my doubt that Collins will just step in and replace him. Collins is, right now, not as strong or as fundamentally sound as Martin was a year ago coming into camp.

A lot of rookies struggle. The jury is out on Collins right now.

 

[windjc]

I'm not seeing real issues here aside from playing on a bad team

Really?? Collins lunges several times in this game. He also gets bull rushed successfully. He also has a swim move used against him successfully. The entire offense scored ZERO points that game. Now, this might have been the worst game Collins had last year - I haven't watched them all, just 2 or 3, but this one was not good.

 

[T-RO]

Here is the easy end to this comparison with Leary. Who would trade Ronald Leary straight up for a top 15 pick in this draft? Heck who would trade Leary & Free for a top 15 pick in this draft?

It's never that simple or every guy coming into the league drafted in the top 3 rounds would almost instantly be a starter.

There is a little thing called: experience.

There is also something a little different about NFL weight and conditioning programs, which Collins has yet to experience. Leary's benefited from those programs a lot.

 

[CashMan]

I wouldn't sign to be a backup either.

But if an athlete out performs me at the same position.......guess what I am.

Agreed, but I think this guy has skills to be a larry Allen type guard. Jmo

 

[CashMan]

Really?? Collins lunges several times in this game. He also gets bull rushed successfully. He also has a swim move used against him successfully. The entire offense scored ZERO points that game. Now, this might have been the worst game Collins had last year - I haven't watched them all, just 2 or 3, but this one was not good.

Did he have inferior talent around him?

 

[windjc]

Did he have inferior talent around him?

Did you watch the footage?

 

[AbeBeta]

Really?? Collins lunges several times in this game. He also gets bull rushed successfully. He also has a swim move used against him successfully. The entire offense scored ZERO points that game. Now, this might have been the worst game Collins had last year - I haven't watched them all, just 2 or 3, but this one was not good.

All OL lunge at times. Sometimes they do so because the players around them aren't doing a great job. You can't pick out a handful of bad plays as your evaluation. All players will have negatives.

The only play I saw him truly look bad on was when he got to the 2nd level and totally whiffed on a small LB (or a DB maybe). But that is small potatoes.

Putting the crap offensive performance on the LT is a bit of a stretch. He certainly wasn't the reason why they didn't score any points. They've got a terrible QB who is skittish as heck in the pocket and doesn't seem willing to actually try to go through more than one read. Their top RB got the ball like 5 times. How is that on the LT?

 

[AbeBeta]

Did he have inferior talent around him?

He's clearly the talent on that line.

It is hilarious to hear all these amateur scouts pick apart his game when these are the same games that earned him a multitude of year end honors.

 

[speedkilz88]

It's never that simple or every guy coming into the league drafted in the top 3 rounds would almost instantly be a starter.

There is a little thing called: experience.

There is also something a little different about NFL weight and conditioning programs, which Collins has yet to experience. Leary's benefited from those programs a lot.

It's actually quite simple. You are nuts if you don't make that trade.

 

[windjc]

He's clearly the talent on that line.

It is hilarious to hear all these amateur scouts pick apart his game when these are the same games that earned him a multitude of year end honors.

Dude. Homer much? Go read the NFL.com scouting reports and read the measureable comparisons on Collins and Martin. Collins criticisms by scouts are the same as are found in this thread. I am not saying he won't be good or great or start week one or even make the all-pro team his rookie year.

But I am saying we shouldn't count on it. Leary is darn good. Collins is a rookie. Normally 1st round lineman are drafted to replace weak starters. Leary is not a weak starter.

 

[windjc]

It's actually quite simple. You are nuts if you don't make that trade.

Not true. Leary performed at a very high level last year. A #1 draft pick is a risk compared to a known commodity. You don't see young, high producing starters being traded for 1st round draft picks.

 

[CashMan]

He's clearly the talent on that line.

It is hilarious to hear all these amateur scouts pick apart his game when these are the same games that earned him a multitude of year end honors.

Agreed, wasn't it Aaron Donald who dominated Martin at the senior bowl, then Martin dominated him, when the Rams played Dallas?

 

[jaybird]

Agree.


Honestly it would be almost impossible for a rookie to beat out Leary. Leary is a heck of a player.

Now Doug Free on the other hand... That guy could be beat out by several rookies.

I think Leary is better then Free so, for me, i'd like to see Collins try to beat out Free.

This

 

[darthseinfeld]

Didnt Leary barely beat out Bernadau last year?

 

[Corso]

When back and watched this tape:



Compared that to Zack Martin film from college. Then I looked at nfl.com draft summaries and ratings for both.

Came away with Martin being a physically stronger and more technically sound player coming out of college, with the only advantage for Collins being longer arms.

All things being equal, I don't think we get Zack Martin redux this year from Collins. We might want to put a little lid on our excitement until Collins can get his balance and hand work fixed.

And I wouldn't pencil Leary to the bench just yet.

Respectable poster giving a respectable post offering the evidence viewed and opening the conversation up for opinion: Like.
And I agree. This will be an interesting Camp to watch.

 

[AbeBeta]

Dude. Homer much? Go read the NFL.com scouting reports and read the measureable comparisons on Collins and Martin. Collins criticisms by scouts are the same as are found in this thread. I am not saying he won't be good or great or start week one or even make the all-pro team his rookie year.

But I am saying we shouldn't count on it. Leary is darn good. Collins is a rookie. Normally 1st round lineman are drafted to replace weak starters. Leary is not a weak starter.

And as with the other poster, you fail to see how those criticisms focused on the weakest parts of his game do not reflect WEAK skills. Weakest is relative to his other attributes, all of which are pretty farm strong. You'll never read a report without weaknesses but when you have a guy who is a consensus top 20 pick, none of those weaknesses are seen by scouts as particularly limiting.

 

[AbeBeta]

Not true. Leary performed at a very high level last year. A #1 draft pick is a risk compared to a known commodity. You don't see young, high producing starters being traded for 1st round draft picks.

He was also sandwiched between two all pros. We could bring back Holland who people loved and he'd do well as the meat in that sandwich. It would be a fat, unhealthy, and vastly overrated sandwich but likely a decent one

 

[conner01]

I can't imagine that anyone expects him to be as good as Martin was as a rookie. Martin was All-Pro as a rookie which is a really rare feat.

The real question with Collins is what will be his primary position in training camp. The Cowboys biggest need is to find a backup swing Tackle. If Collins is better as an OT than Green/Weems then he should be practicing at OT, IMO.

Leary is a really good and underrated player. Replacing him with Collins won't really help the team in 2015.

FYI - "Tape" implies the All-22 coaches film. This video is just "game footage".

It's silly to assume any rookie will be an all pro
The key is developing him into a good player and determine if he is a guard or a solid tackle prospect
And coaching him up at what ever he fits to be a solid starter

 

[Galian Beast]

This topic is made even funnier by the Dane Helman article he just wrote about the impact Collins can make.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/point-collins-05-18-15