La'el Collins

[Outlaw Heroes]

That was not the 2nd level....that's part of his blocking assignment from the RT spot. Two steps forward does not equal the 2nd level. The guy is not unfit to play in the NFL, he is suited to play G. He won't be anywhere close to Martin's level, but he's certainly a starter at the G position in this league.

I still don’t get your argument. He reached his block (but just got manhandled) so it wasn’t an issue of mobility or ability to play in space. Why is this evidence that he’s better suited to playing G?

 

[condoin125]

Collins has not been great, but posting an individual play doesn't serve a purpose. The best RT in the NFL could look bad if someone posted an individual play that he didn't handle well.

Has not been great is quite an understatement...he's very mediocre at his job and individually limits our offense.

 

[CouchCoach]

We were used to the OL being a top 3 one and owning the line. Part of that was Yosemite being in there to not only block but to handle the line calls since his intelligence level was one of the reasons they made him a 1st. The OL has not been the same since they let Leary walk and Free retired. Yosemite was to the OL what Lee is to the front 7.

Leary was the heart and soul and attitude of the OL and Free's run blocking was better than his pass blocking was bad. They thought they could do better than Leary and underestimated his synergistic effect on the OL.

More than any unit in football, the OL must be the one that is in tune and this one is not as in tune as they used to be. Did you happen to watch Elliott's tentativeness in that Skins game. He had very little confidence in the OL and didn't get much help from the OC. They will see more of that until the opposing DC's fear the OC.

What is surprising to me are the expectations just because of what has been. Take away the starting C on the OL and put in a rookie G, lose the starting WR and TE and expect the same results? With this coaching staff?

 

[condoin125]

I still don’t get your argument. He reached his block (but just got manhandled) so it wasn’t an issue of mobility or ability to play in space. Why is this evidence that he’s better suited to playing G?

As I explained earlier in the thread, it's an issue of technique. He plays with lazy technique and you won't be very successful at the tackle position playing that way. You can get away with that (some) at the guard spot.

 

[Future]

Can we all just stop and see that there are not 8 or even 9 defenders in the box please....just sayin'!

This is a stacked box though....dictated by formation/personell

It's 7 against 6 blockers.

I think when people use the 8 men in the box language, it includes this, because it's the same principle from the defense.

 

[OmerV]

Has not been great is quite an understatement...he's very mediocre at his job and individually limits our offense.

And showing one play is quite a skewed and unrealistic. Had someone shown one play where he made a nice block would that mean he is very good?

Overall he is at least an average RT - not outstanding, but not weak. No team has Pro-Bowlers at every O-Line spot, so every team has to deal with that. If the overall O-Line were as strong as in the past few years nobody would notice an occasional mistake by Collins, but because the O-Line as a whole isn't performing well, we are hyper sensitive to every mistake.

 

[condoin125]

And showing one play is quite a skewed and unrealistic. Had someone shown one play where he made a nice block would that mean he is very good?

Overall he is at least an average RT - not outstanding, but not weak. No team has Pro-Bowlers at every O-Line spot, so every team has to deal with that. If the overall O-Line were as strong as in the past few years nobody would notice an occasional mistake by Collins, but because the O-Line as a whole isn't performing well, we are hyper sensitive to every mistake.

That's a very reasonable take but I assure you that I'm not basing my analysis off of this one play. This is an argument I've been making since the beginning of last season when PFF started posting on how much pressure he was giving up regularly from the right side. I've been watching him closely off and on since then and he plays like a guy who needs to be upgraded. I understand you can't have a Zack Martin at every position but we can do better than this at RT.

 

[Blackrain]

He actually had way more bad plays than that.

Great post Thank you most informative thing on this forum

 

[mmohican29]

Tyron has been just fine. Don't even put him in the same category as Collins.

He's been average to stinking up the joint.

It is what it is. As fans we need to stop defending all players because they've been excellent.

What do you have for us today and the future. Now I believe he can play better and deserves the benefit of the doubt.

But he's stinking up the joint currently. There is no debate.

 

[CATCH17]

Has not been great is quite an understatement...he's very mediocre at his job and individually limits our offense.

It's mental though.

Tyron Smith is making mental mistakes as well.

Throwin Tyron Smith inside at guard is not the answer and it's not the answer right now for La'el Collins.

Right now both of those guys have looked worse then they are because they are making mental mistakes. They don't know where or who to block a lot of the time.

Physically they are both all you could ask for. Even La'el at tackle.

Throwing him inside doesn't fix his issue of not knowing where or who to block.

 

[perrykemp]

It's mental though.

Tyron Smith is making mental mistakes as well.

Throwin Tyron Smith inside at guard is not the answer and it's not the answer right now for La'el Collins.

Right now both of those guys have looked worse then they are because they are making mental mistakes. They don't know where or who to block a lot of the time.

Physically they are both all you could ask for. Even La'el at tackle.

Throwing him inside doesn't fix his issue of not knowing where or who to block.

You are in the camp that Collins and Smith are not playing well because of coaching. It's a common suggestion here on CZ.

For me, it seems like the easy way out and a bit of fans not wanting to accepting what their eyes are telling them.

I see a Tyron Smith who looks much stiffer than previous years. He just doesn't look like he has much bend anymore. Given his back problems over the past 2-3 years, it's not the least bit surprising.

With Collins I see a classic phone booth offensive lineman. Phone booth offensive lineman can be pro-bowlers and All-Pro at the guard positon in the NFL.

Phone booth offensive lineman at Right Tackle is a problem. Collins just doesn't have the feet to be a very good pass blocker.

 

[condoin125]

It's mental though.

Tyron Smith is making mental mistakes as well.

Throwin Tyron Smith inside at guard is not the answer and it's not the answer right now for La'el Collins.

Right now both of those guys have looked worse then they are because they are making mental mistakes. They don't know where or who to block a lot of the time.

Physically they are both all you could ask for. Even La'el at tackle.

Throwing him inside doesn't fix his issue of not knowing where or who to block.

I do think Collins is a good athlete for a guy that size but I agree with Perrykemp who posted right after you; I just think his footwork is bad at the tackle spot which I wouldn't file under the mental side of things.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Tyron has been just fine. Don't even put him in the same category as Collins.

LOL...…….This is easily the worst year of Smith career. He has NOT been "just fine". No longer a pro bowl lineman. At this rate he will be a JAG in a year.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Found this on Reddit page and sorry if it's already been posted...but can we please get this dude out of the RT spot???

If you look at that film, EVERY lineman got beat but Conner and Swain. Everyone else got blown up including Martin.

This is the worst I have seen the line play since the year before Frederick got here. Its bad.

 

[condoin125]

If you look at that film, EVERY lineman got beat but Conner and Swain. Everyone else got blown up including Martin.

This is the worst I have seen the line play since the year before Frederick got here. Its bad.

You don't even know what the heck you're talking about...just spouting some nonsense. "Everyone else got blown up"....perfect example of you seeing exactly what you wanted to see.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Swap Connor and Collins?

 

[kumizi]

I look at the PFF rankings whenever we play on NBC. Collins has been in the bottle half every single time I've looked in the last three years. He's just not good.

 

[CowboyRoy]

You don't even know what the heck you're talking about...just spouting some nonsense. "Everyone else got blown up"....perfect example of you seeing exactly what you wanted to see.

Its exactly what happened. Everyone lost the battle but Conner and Swain. Why would I lie? LOL

 

[Whyjerry]

The Dallas Cowboys...where good players go to die.

 

[xwalker]

I'm all for relentlessly bashing our guys whenever they make a mistake but come on.

La'el being off balance and thrown to the floor is something i'm not going to get too upset over. This kind of stuff happens and is why coaches would point to us fans not knowing what we are talking about.

There is several fights to pick with Tyron and La'els play this year but this is not one of them.

They are the mental mistake brothers more then the physically can't do it brothers.

Mosher seriously doesn't now the difference in good or bad plays.