Lame Duck Coach

[glimmerman]

Unless he has been dumb with his money then he is set.. I think that JG has to be wondering now that he got no extension and lost his scapegoat and has to rely on a first year OC that was only a QB coach for one year before he got the gig..If this team makes the playoffs then JG gets another year, JJ may leave him year to year now for a while..

 

[RodeoJake]

I knew Bum, he probably said that, but so do most coaches. I was never fired and I take pride in that.

If Idgit was your superior, you'd be in a whole heap of trouble, hoss. I bet he fires folks for not putting carrots on their Wheaties.

 

[Diehardblues]

All of that, I agree with and that's not my problem with him.

You know who Garrett is? Tom Hagen, who is good enough to serve as the consigliere in times of peace (off season, FA, the draft, team building) but when it comes time to go to the mattresses (games), he's not the guy. Everywhere else, he's OK but on that sideline, he is not in his element.

What's the best thing, even the detractors, say about him? His guys play hard for him, they don't quit on him. Do you see any players in the NFL not playing hard or quitting on their coaches? Hell, each player has his own movie every week. The #1 job for every coach is to put each player in his best possible situation to be successful and I feel he is lacking on game days in that regard.

I do not see any HC taking any control or power away from the Joneses but I do believe that's their control area, that team on game day. I am ready to see another HC do that because that is Garrett's greatest shortcoming. He's not a good HC when it's time to go to the mattresses.

I understand but it doesn’t matter what we want to see. It’s about who presents the greatest opportunity for Jerry to receive the credit he’s been pursuing since Jimmy left.

The last thing Jerry wants is for some whipper snapper coming in with this nucleus of talent and having sudden success. That would support its more about the coaching.

And why it comes down to who is the best puppet for our circumstance with Jerry. And why I always come back to this. I’m not sure why we are so determined to ignore the basic concept of our dilemma here? Like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Lol

 

[Diehardblues]

How do you think fans would have been with Landry here in the late 80's? He created Cowboys history but the bottom line for many is winning.

Of course but winning alone isn’t our priority anymore. Jerry is only interested winning his way. And Garrett represents his way.

Once you accept the obstacles we must overcome only then can we begin devising solutions.

We can’t apply normal solutions to an abnormal situation.

 

[CouchCoach]

Unless he has been dumb with his money then he is set.. I think that JG has to be wondering now that he got no extension and lost his scapegoat and has to rely on a first year OC that was only a QB coach for one year before he got the gig..If this team makes the playoffs then JG gets another year, JJ may leave him year to year now for a while..

Don't think so, no team does that to their HC. He either gets an extension or he's gone.

One thing that is interesting about this are the Joneses expectations vs most of the analysts. They're expecting better results, in other words we've done our job, and most are not believing the Cowboys even make the playoffs. The perception of the Joneses is quite different than most and even if Garrett makes the playoffs, that will not be enough for most here.

The perception of the talent level of this team vs others skews everything and we have the tendency to overvalue the talent and think it will be smooth sailing for a first time OC with very limited coaching experience.

For some here, the Joneses have set the conditions of extension, make the NFCCG. I think they read too much into what the Joneses say to the media trying to cover their own butts. "Jason needs to do better", wasn't that what Son said? I would prefer for him and his old man to say they have to do better. Openly stating the expectations for Garrett to do better is nothing more than patting themselves on the back.

 

[CouchCoach]

Of course but winning alone isn’t our priority anymore. Jerry is only interested winning his way. And Garrett represents his way.

Once you accept the obstacles we must overcome only then can we begin devising solutions.

We can’t apply normal solutions to an abnormal situation.

I agree with this which is why I have been accepting of Garrett because I am not sure they're going to do any better but I am not the typical fan, I am not SB or bust. Was in my youth but no longer so that makes it easier to "settle" or "lower my bar, my expectations" as some have accused me of doing but they're the ones that are frustrated, not me. They continue to ignore the reality, we're not fans of a team, we're witness to a man playing with one of his toys.

LOL, on one hand, I get busted for lowering my expectations while they rail about the last 23 years. Hell, maturing is the difference in what you want and what you expect.

 

[Diehardblues]

How do you think fans would have been with Landry here in the late 80's? He created Cowboys history but the bottom line for many is winning.

As far as how fans would have been with Landry if this were the late 80’s.

I recall the criticism Tom took back then. I was one who while idolized Tom was for bringing Jimmy in. Despite my dislike of Jerry’s ways I applauded that it meant bringing Jimmy on board. And I defended Jerry that there’s really no good way to let a legend go if he’s not ready to leave.

Like my father always said. You can’t tarnish old legends and must always be prepared to embrace new legends.

But Tom was always criticized. From the early years on despite his success. Most likely he wouldn’t have been as targeted in social media because they couldn’t say he’d never win a Ring which is similar to why Jerry still receives a pass from these type of attacks . Trolls don’t take on those who have a proven record.

 

[Diehardblues]

Don't think so, no team does that to their HC. He either gets an extension or he's gone.

One thing that is interesting about this are the Joneses expectations vs most of the analysts. They're expecting better results, in other words we've done our job, and most are not believing the Cowboys even make the playoffs. The perception of the Joneses is quite different than most and even if Garrett makes the playoffs, that will not be enough for most here.

The perception of the talent level of this team vs others skews everything and we have the tendency to overvalue the talent and think it will be smooth sailing for a first time OC with very limited coaching experience.

For some here, the Joneses have set the conditions of extension, make the NFCCG. I think they read too much into what the Joneses say to the media trying to cover their own butts. "Jason needs to do better", wasn't that what Son said? I would prefer for him and his old man to say they have to do better. Openly stating the expectations for Garrett to do better is nothing more than patting themselves on the back.

Yep

Fans read into the hype and promotion Jethro and Son present as though this team is championship caliber ready to contend.

And then when they don’t fulfill these selling points must go into Damage Control looking for scapegoats to the fans.

It’s a vicious cycle that no other owner places on their franchise. All to make a buck by selling hope and interest promoting their product.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

I understand but it doesn’t matter what we want to see. It’s about who presents the greatest opportunity for Jerry to receive the credit he’s been pursuing since Jimmy left.

The last thing Jerry wants is for some whipper snapper coming in with this nucleus of talent and having sudden success. That would support its more about the coaching.

And why it comes down to who is the best puppet for our circumstance with Jerry. And why I always come back to this. I’m not sure why we are so determined to ignore the basic concept of our dilemma here? Like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Lol

If Jerry fires Garrett and hires a new coach and has sudden success, Jerry will still get credit for hiring the new coach, same as hiring Jimmy. So I don't see it's the last thing Jerry wants.

But Jerry has patience, if nothing else. The Browns are on their 10th head coach since Dallas last won a SB. Hiring coach after coach every couple of years seldom leads to great success, even if the coaches don't do well. Lots of folks wanted Landry fired after only 3-4-5 years, but Clint stuck with him and the result was super success. Jerry has stuck with Garrett because he hired Campo and other coaches and when they didn't have sudden success he fired them and got another coach, who again didn't have sudden success. He wanted a different approach. So far it hasn't worked to the extent he wants, so I do feel Garrett is on the proverbial hot seat, though like someone said, since Garrett hasn't been officially replaced or is retiring, he's not technically a "lame duck" head coach.

IF Jerry fires Jason, will he finally bring in another Parcells, a proven head coach, and give him lots more control, or bring in another so-called puppet?

We'll just have to wait and see...

 

[CouchCoach]

Yep

Fans read into the hype and promotion Jethro and Son present as though this team is championship caliber ready to contend.

And then when they don’t fulfill these selling points must go into Damage Control looking for scapegoats to the fans.

It’s a vicious cycle that no other owner places on their franchise. All to make a buck by selling hope and interest promoting their product.

I don't see it as that, they're going to sell out regardless. Booger stop promoting the team a long time ago, it became more personal than that. All he does is push his ego, that's why we know what his toys cost. He is all about "look at me".

What they are promoting is themselves, look at what we've done. If it doesn't do better, it's not our fault.

 

[Diehardblues]

If Jerry fires Garrett and hires a new coach and has sudden success, Jerry will still get credit for hiring the new coach, same as hiring Jimmy. So I don't see it's the last thing Jerry wants.

But Jerry has patience, if nothing else. The Browns are on their 10th head coach since Dallas last won a SB. Hiring coach after coach every couple of years seldom leads to great success, even if the coaches don't do well. Lots of folks wanted Landry fired after only 3-4-5 years, but Clint stuck with him and the result was super success. Jerry has stuck with Garrett because he hired Campo and other coaches and when they didn't have sudden success he fired them and got another coach, who again didn't have sudden success. He wanted a different approach. So far it hasn't worked to the extent he wants, so I do feel Garrett is on the proverbial hot seat, though like someone said, since Garrett hasn't been officially replaced or is retiring, he's not technically a "lame duck" head coach.

IF Jerry fires Jason, will he finally bring in another Parcells, a proven head coach, and give him lots more control, or bring in another so-called puppet?

We'll just have to wait and see...

Then you don’t understand why Jerry parted ways with Jimmy. Taking credit for hiring Jimmy wasn’t enough for Jerry.

 

[TWOK11]

I coached a long time and I saw many lame duck coaches. Thank goodness I was never in that situation, but those that were did not handle it very well. I was close to five coaches that went through that and spoke to them regularly. The pressure they were under was immense. Beyond worrying about paying their bills, the hit to their ego that they might be fired was tough. Do you think Garrett is worried? Yes or no?

“Lame duck” generally implies that a coach has no hope of saving his job. Garrett is on an expiring contract but is definitely not a lame duck. If he wins the division and wins a couple playoff games he will definitely be resigned.

 

[CouchCoach]

If Jerry fires Garrett and hires a new coach and has sudden success, Jerry will still get credit for hiring the new coach, same as hiring Jimmy. So I don't see it's the last thing Jerry wants.

But Jerry has patience, if nothing else. The Browns are on their 10th head coach since Dallas last won a SB. Hiring coach after coach every couple of years seldom leads to great success, even if the coaches don't do well. Lots of folks wanted Landry fired after only 3-4-5 years, but Clint stuck with him and the result was super success. Jerry has stuck with Garrett because he hired Campo and other coaches and when they didn't have sudden success he fired them and got another coach, who again didn't have sudden success. He wanted a different approach. So far it hasn't worked to the extent he wants, so I do feel Garrett is on the proverbial hot seat, though like someone said, since Garrett hasn't been officially replaced or is retiring, he's not technically a "lame duck" head coach.

IF Jerry fires Jason, will he finally bring in another Parcells, a proven head coach, and give him lots more control, or bring in another so-called puppet?

We'll just have to wait and see...

Yep, not telling what he will do but he really doesn't want to give up the Garrett experiment. Bringing in a neophyte coach and bringing him up through the ranks is bragging stuff but he has taken out an insurance policy with his OC. Same pattern, different guy.

 

[Diehardblues]

Yep, not telling what he will do but he really doesn't want to give up the Garrett experiment. Hiring in a neophyte coach and bringing him up through the ranks is bragging stuff but he has taken out an insurance policy with his OC. Same pattern, different guy.

Correct

More likely Jerry would continue not bringing in a proven HC. As we’ve established over the years only reason one like Parcells was brought in was to sell hope for a new stadium.

It’s not likely Jerry would go that route again unless there was financial implications like declining revenue, empty seats, etc.

 

[CouchCoach]

“Lame duck” generally implies that a coach has no hope of saving his job. Garrett is on an expiring contract but is definitely not a lame duck. If he wins the division and wins a couple playoff games he will definitely be resigned.

May be whether he even does that. The Joneses haven't gone the Jeff Lurie route. Everyone knew what Reid had to do to keep his job.

This situation is very unusual. Garrett has been long time friends with Son since he was drafted and Garrett's wife is best friends with Booger's daughter. With Booger, it's all in the family and I just don't see how they get around that.

 

[Diehardblues]

May be whether he even does that. The Joneses haven't gone the Jeff Lurie route. Everyone knew what Reid had to do to keep his job.

This situation is very unusual. Garrett has been long time friends with Son since he was drafted and Garrett's wife is best friends with Booger's daughter. With Booger, it's all in the family and I just don't see how they get around that.

I really believe fans and media have fabricated that Garrett is on the hot seat simply because Jerry hasn’t extended his contract which is the norm for Jerry and coaches.

 

[Diehardblues]

Unless he has been dumb with his money then he is set.. I think that JG has to be wondering now that he got no extension and lost his scapegoat and has to rely on a first year OC that was only a QB coach for one year before he got the gig..If this team makes the playoffs then JG gets another year, JJ may leave him year to year now for a while..

That’s a possibility I hadn’t considered before. In the event we aren’t successful as hyped this year instead of firing Garrett he might only give him a one year extension.

 

[acr731]

Unless he has been dumb with his money then he is set.. I think that JG has to be wondering now that he got no extension and lost his scapegoat and has to rely on a first year OC that was only a QB coach for one year before he got the gig..If this team makes the playoffs then JG gets another year, JJ may leave him year to year now for a while..

I'm trying to figure out why that sounds soooooooo familiar.

 

[CouchCoach]

Correct

More likely Jerry would continue not bringing in a proven HC. As we’ve established over the years only reason one like Parcells was brought in was to sell hope for a new stadium.

It’s not likely Jerry would go that route again unless there was financial implications.

He might dip into the college ranks with a guy like Riley because he's not seen a real heavy hitter. His defenses are mediocre and they have a built in recruiting edge and there is this resistance to college coaches, which was also a thing when he hired Johnson.

The problem with Johnson was his brashness. If Booger had brought in a less cocky guy and one that hadn't craved the headlines himself, maybe that doesn't go south. A HC calling a radio station to guarantee a win the week before the NFCCG? That stuff just doesn't happen and no way Booger is going to one up that move. That one act elevated Jimmy way beyond Booger as the Man.

 

[Diehardblues]

He might dip into the college ranks with a guy like Riley because he's not seen a real heavy hitter. His defenses are mediocre and they have a built in recruiting edge and there is this resistance to college coaches, which was also a thing when he hired Johnson.

The problem with Johnson was his brashness. If Booger had brought in a less cocky guy and one that hadn't craved the headlines himself, maybe that doesn't go south. A HC calling a radio station to guarantee a win the week before the NFCCG? That stuff just doesn't happen and no way Booger is going to one up that move. That one act elevated Jimmy way beyond Booger as the Man.

Yep

Jimmy also had the championship pedigree and his teams carried the same swagger as their HC.

Riley hasn’t won a championship and hasn’t proved he’s anything more than mopping up on the Elite talent his school brings in compared to rest of Little 10 conference. Lol

We’ll see if Riley is smart enough to stay put. I’d suspect he’d sink instead of swim with equal or less talent. But he might be less enough prospect or heavy hitter as you say to interest Jerry.