Lawrence streak ends, but Irvings continues

[MichaelWinicki]

It is funny. Typically those taller guys have a hard time getting leverage at the tackle position because those squatty, powerful guards are basically taught to get that leverage.

That is a benefit of the Marinelli scheme, the 3T assignment is meant to shoot the gap, so height isn't a big factor, as long as they get off the ball and can get "skinny". In fact, height could be an advantage, where normally it'd be an obvious disadvantage. He has developed nicely, kudos to him and the defensive staff.

A little off topic, but when Taco gets his feet under him (quite literally ha ha), I wouldn't be surprised if he was able to rotate in at the 3 as well, in relief or in a passing package next to Irving.

Irving was a great find and we're getting him for an absolute steal this season and next. I'd almost be tempted to offer him a deal this offseason instead of waiting for him to hit FA in 2019. He might be tempted to take the money now, and we could get a deal, opposed to waiting a year and having no guarantee against injury.

To some extend I think the NFL talent folks and coaches have fallen under a group think that has eliminated (mostly) the tall DT.

Yeah, there are leverage issues to overcome, but as we've seen with Irving, the tall guys have that arm length that creates all sorts of problems.

For years it seems DT's got shorter & shorter... And rounder & rounder.

I'm loving seeing a tall DT break the group think.

John Dutton was a very good DT and he was 6'7".

And geez Ernie Ladd was a fantastic DT and he was 6'9" and his DT partner at KC was Buck Buchanan who was 6'7".

Irving with his size and better short-area quickness is turning into a monster at the position. There were many on this board that thought using him at DE was somewhat a waste of his talents.

 

[TheHerd]

To some extend I think the NFL talent folks and coaches have fallen under a group think that has eliminated (mostly) the tall DT.

Yeah, there are leverage issues to overcome, but as we've seen with Irving, the tall guys have that arm length that creates all sorts of problems.

For years it seems DT's got shorter & shorter... And rounder & rounder.

I'm loving seeing a tall DT break the group think.

John Dutton was a very good DT and he was 6'7".

And geez Ernie Ladd was a fantastic DT and he was 6'9" and his DT partner at KC was Buck Buchanan who was 6'7".

Irving with his size and better short-area quickness is turning into a monster at the position. There were many on this board that thought using him at DE was somewhat a waste of his talents.

No offense, but you are OLD! And yes, me too - takes one to know on one.

 

[gmoney112]

To some extend I think the NFL talent folks and coaches have fallen under a group think that has eliminated (mostly) the tall DT.

Yeah, there are leverage issues to overcome, but as we've seen with Irving, the tall guys have that arm length that creates all sorts of problems.

For years it seems DT's got shorter & shorter... And rounder & rounder.

I'm loving seeing a tall DT break the group think.

John Dutton was a very good DT and he was 6'7".

And geez Ernie Ladd was a fantastic DT and he was 6'9" and his DT partner at KC was Buck Buchanan who was 6'7".

Irving with his size and better short-area quickness is turning into a monster at the position. There were many on this board that thought using him at DE was somewhat a waste of his talents.

Agreed.

Well, I think a lot of that is from the prevalence of the 3-4 imo, with those NT assignments(outside of Wade), also in general a good bit of 3T tackles have a lot of 2 gapping assignments. The Giants, in particular, basically used their 3T as a 1T, so they'd have 2 behemoths plugging the run.

Also, the prevalence of nickel packages probably has some to do with it, a little more beef at the tackle position to stop the run when you're deploying more DBs.

I haven't really seen how effective Irving is with a 2 gapping responsibility, probably not great, but that's an absolute waste of his skill set.

Its a lot of fun watching him break the mold, it's almost like interior lineman don't even know what to do because it's become such a foreign concept.

And he'd definitely be wasted at DE at this point. He's become dominant inside. I'm never giving him another snap at DE.

 

[stilltheguru88]

Irving plays with a motor that we haven't seen since...I dunno how long! Ware was great with his physical tools and skills/technique but even I don't think he ever had that motor.

Money makes you motivated

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Agreed.

Well, I think a lot of that is from the prevalence of the 3-4 imo, with those NT assignments(outside of Wade), also in general a good bit of 3T tackles have a lot of 2 gapping assignments. The Giants, in particular, basically used their 3T as a 1T, so they'd have 2 behemoths plugging the run.

Also, the prevalence of nickel packages probably has some to do with it, a little more beef at the tackle position to stop the run when you're deploying more DBs.

I haven't really seen how effective Irving is with a 2 gapping responsibility, probably not great, but that's an absolute waste of his skill set.

Its a lot of fun watching him break the mold, it's almost like interior lineman don't even know what to do because it's become such a foreign concept.

And he'd definitely be wasted at DE at this point. He's become dominant inside. I'm never giving him another snap at DE.

Yep.

The use of the 3-4 defense and guys like Curly Culp (6'1") began the race of who can have the shortest, squattiest players at G and DT.