Lebron to the Lakers

[jterrell]

Yeah, well, good luck for him there in Clipperville. Not. If he wants to win he needs to join a team with other superstars, not go to a middling franchise like the Clippers who are losers every year

I'm convinced they'll never win. Kawhi or otherwise. They blew their chance. I do like their owner, tho. I know some think he's obnoxious, but if Cuban gets away with it, he should, too (granted, Cuban has won). Similar owners, imo, just one has 10x the net worth of the other

I think this is just what I say when I say LAL needs to trade for Kawhi NOW.
LAL is starting:
Lonzo/Rondo
KCP
Ingram
LBJ
McGee/Lopez(likely resigned)

So Kuz has already been benched.
Add Kawhi and he takes Ingram's spot.

Hart is an 8th man at best.

Stephenson and Zubac are also gonna get some run.

Math just doesn't add up for the Lakers kids to play much.
So the question is will be they be traded but for whom and when.
Their value won't go up playing 15 MPG.

 

[kskboys]

Dame is probably the most compelling players on that list. Dont know if the Lakers can hid him on defense. Wall is a better player, but he has turned into a bit of a headcase. DeRozan is pretty weak defensively too, and while Beal is probably better he gets hurt too much

I think Ball, Hart and some picks get it done for Dame.

You think Ball has trade value?

 

[jterrell]

"Once Desired"? Anthony had a contact offer on the table from the Lakers. He could have taken it. He didn't. The Knicks or the NBA didn't stop him from doing that. He decided against it. That was his decision. George did not give the Lakers a meeting. He decided to take the money in OKC. Whatever George said about wanting to go to LA, he decided to stay in OKC. The situations are different but seems like you refuse to acknowledge this. That's fine but you are not going to try and seriously convince me that this was, somehow, not driven by each player. The league had nothing to do with either of those decisions ultimately.

In fact, with the Lakers, they are in a much better financial situation next year. Stay under the cap unless the offer is to your benefit and then go out and sign two max contracts next year. There is no benefit to them moving over the cap this season, if it costs them more then just money. That's just not true JT.

Lakers are going to have a lot of payroll flexibility next year and a lot of cap to work with. I just see no advantage to trying to sacrifice the future for a team with two or three high level guys and no bench around them. The Lakers can have both if they just stay patient. Two or three top level guys are not going to beat GS. You have to have a team and you have to have depth and the way the Lakers get that is by not panicking and offering San Antonio the future, just because somebody thinks they need Leonard now to finish 2nd or 3rd in the West. They can finish 2nd or 3rd in the West now, without doing one more thing IMO.

bro you are lying to yourself but you can't lie to me, lol.

carmelo desired to go to CLE.
he pouted and underperformed in NYK and got traded ... to OKC.
george openly stated HE WAS signing with LAL refused to talk contract with IND.
he got traded... to OKC.
BOTH stayed by choice when money entered the equation.

 

[jterrell]

You think Ball has trade value?

Of Lakers Ball has the highest ceiling.
The other guys can score but lotsa NBA players can score.
Ball has elite vision and length for the position.
His Dad would likely be less of factor on a non-LA based team like Washington or Portland.
Teams that can use some spotlight and jersey sales.

 

[jterrell]

This might have something to it if it were not for the fact that virtually every major trade scenario involving the Lakers comes down to a trade for Ingram or Kuz or both. So it's not the fan base driving this, it's other teams. The Lakers have consistently refused to move either of these players and lets face it, that's probably what's holding up a Leonard deal right now. No, this is not random fan speak. The Organization values both of those guys greatly and that's easy to see. That's not misguided fan obsession.

you assume a lot here mate. we have no idea what the actual trade discussions are.

 

[kskboys]

Of Lakers Ball has the highest ceiling.
The other guys can score but lotsa NBA players can score.
Ball has elite vision and length for the position.
His Dad would likely be less of factor on a non-LA based team like Washington or Portland.
Teams that can use some spotlight and jersey sales.

You don't think his lack of quickness/explosiveness will limit him?

 

[Trouty]

I think this is just what I say when I say LAL needs to trade for Kawhi NOW.
LAL is starting:
Lonzo/Rondo
KCP
Ingram
LBJ
McGee/Lopez(likely resigned)

So Kuz has already been benched.
Add Kawhi and he takes Ingram's spot.

Hart is an 8th man at best.

Stephenson and Zubac are also gonna get some run.

Math just doesn't add up for the Lakers kids to play much.
So the question is will be they be traded but for whom and when.
Their value won't go up playing 15 MPG.

I appreciate the reply -- the time you took for it -- JT, especially given the snark I was throwing in this thread, earlier.

Unfortunately, my brother, I don't know enough about basketball to counterpoint this argument. I'm good for NBA hot takes, but offer very little substance here, admittedly.

 

[jterrell]

You don't think his lack of quickness/explosiveness will limit him?

Sure, like it limited his boss Magic.
You always wanna be quicker but Lonzo has athletic traits in non-speed areas. He's tall and can hold weight.

At the end of the day Ball has a court vision and passing skillset that set him apart.
He has enough height to shoot it well once he gets rid of that crap shot his Dad let him run with.
Pick either Steph or Klay's shot and go shoot 500 3s a day.
It's not hard.

I think Ball would best in a smaller market with less pressure and noise.
Let him play and just develop.

I compared him pre-draft to Jason Kidd and I still think that's the best comp.
He'll guard mostly 2s and need to shoot open 3's.
If he can add some Nash style mid-range game he'll be a top 5 PG in time.

 

[jterrell]

I appreciate the reply -- the time you took for it -- JT, especially given the snark I was throwing in this thread, earlier.

Unfortunately, my brother, I don't know enough about basketball to counterpoint this argument. I'm good for NBA hot takes, but offer very little substance here, admittedly.

I'm not that sensitive bro and I know you are a good dude.

To put my comments in another context Marty B was a good TE but he was never developing here behind Witten.
Young talent has to play or it loses value and development time.

I think Magic is far smarter than the Lakers media. I expect he has been actively trying ot trade4 those young guys whom he spent a year building their value.
He's likely known that long he had LBJ locked up tbh.

Talks now with other teams like Portland or WAS aren't surprising. It's exactly what I'd be doing to.

 

[darthseinfeld]

You think Ball has trade value?

Now, yes. After 1 more year, none

 

[Sarek]

Everyone wants to be a Laker, they just won't admit it!

 

[Roadtrip635]

"Once Desired"? Anthony had a contact offer on the table from the Lakers. He could have taken it. He didn't. The Knicks or the NBA didn't stop him from doing that. He decided against it. That was his decision. George did not give the Lakers a meeting. He decided to take the money in OKC. Whatever George said about wanting to go to LA, he decided to stay in OKC. The situations are different but seems like you refuse to acknowledge this. That's fine but you are not going to try and seriously convince me that this was, somehow, not driven by each player. The league had nothing to do with either of those decisions ultimately.

In fact, with the Lakers, they are in a much better financial situation next year. Stay under the cap unless the offer is to your benefit and then go out and sign two max contracts next year. There is no benefit to them moving over the cap this season, if it costs them more then just money. That's just not true JT.

Lakers are going to have a lot of payroll flexibility next year and a lot of cap to work with. I just see no advantage to trying to sacrifice the future for a team with two or three high level guys and no bench around them. The Lakers can have both if they just stay patient. Two or three top level guys are not going to beat GS. You have to have a team and you have to have depth and the way the Lakers get that is by not panicking and offering San Antonio the future, just because somebody thinks they need Leonard now to finish 2nd or 3rd in the West. They can finish 2nd or 3rd in the West now, without doing one more thing IMO.

It does benefit LA to be patient, but how patient is LBJ willing to be during that first season? He did sign a 3-4 yr deal vs the 1-2 yr deals he had with the Cavs, but he hasn't really portrayed himself as the patient type. If the team has some struggles, I expect him to make noise about making improvements sooner or if they do start well, he may decide that Kawhi might be the piece to contend immediately. He hasn't been shy about playing GM during his career even when he was with the Heat. I think, he may have been expecting PG to sign this summer and waiting and seeing at 33/34 yrs old how it plays out next summer may be too much for him.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

bro you are lying to yourself but you can't lie to me, lol.

carmelo desired to go to CLE.
he pouted and underperformed in NYK and got traded ... to OKC.
george openly stated HE WAS signing with LAL refused to talk contract with IND.
he got traded... to OKC.
BOTH stayed by choice when money entered the equation.

You denying that Anthoney had a max offer from LA on the table and elected to go another way? Who's lying now?

You denying that George had an offer from L.A. and elected to sign with OKC? Who's lying now?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

you assume a lot here mate. we have no idea what the actual trade discussions are.

Not really. It's public knowledge. Lakers do not want to lose either of those guys.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It does benefit LA to be patient, but how patient is LBJ willing to be during that first season? He did sign a 3-4 yr deal vs the 1-2 yr deals he had with the Cavs, but he hasn't really portrayed himself as the patient type. If the team has some struggles, I expect him to make noise about making improvements sooner or if they do start well, he may decide that Kawhi might be the piece to contend immediately. He hasn't been shy about playing GM during his career even when he was with the Heat. I think, he may have been expecting PG to sign this summer and waiting and seeing at 33/34 yrs old how it plays out next summer may be too much for him.

I personally think James probably knows the plan in LA. I would guess that Magic has probably outlined the plan to James and I would also assume that all of this was why James gave the Lakers 3 years and an option. I don't think you will see James playing GM in LA. If that happens, then the wheels are off before they start rolling in the first place.

I guess we'll see what comes. James is here for reasons outside of Basketball. Lots of influences, outside of Basketball, drove this decision IMO.

JMO

 

[Roadtrip635]

I personally think James probably knows the plan in LA. I would guess that Magic has probably outlined the plan to James and I would also assume that all of this was why James gave the Lakers 3 years and an option. I don't think you will see James playing GM in LA. If that happens, then the wheels are off before they start rolling in the first place.

I guess we'll see what comes. James is here for reasons outside of Basketball. Lots of influences, outside of Basketball, drove this decision IMO.

JMO

It could very well be the case, he's just never been shy about voicing his opinions about the roster make up before. He may be fine with it in July, but how will he feel about it in January? The 3/4yr deal may have been about his family, son playing HS ball, as much as his faith in the plan. Plans change too, especially if PG was an original part of that plan. It may be harder to draw two big names next summer than just one if PG or Kawhi were already in the fold. A lot of things can change by next year and LA may not be as appealing, those FAs next season may think the Rockets, or a 76ers or Celtics teams, especially in the weak East, looks more inviting. It's not as easy being patient when you're looking at being 34/35 yrs old to make a serious run again.

Being patient and not overpaying for Kawhi may be the best move, but we won't know until the season plays out.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It could very well be the case, he's just never been shy about voicing his opinions about the roster make up before. He may be fine with it in July, but how will he feel about it in January? The 3/4yr deal may have been about his family, son playing HS ball, as much as his faith in the plan. Plans change too, especially if PG was an original part of that plan. It may be harder to draw two big names next summer than just one if PG or Kawhi were already in the fold. A lot of things can change by next year and LA may not be as appealing, those FAs next season may think the Rockets, or a 76ers or Celtics teams, especially in the weak East, looks more inviting. It's not as easy being patient when you're looking at being 34/35 yrs old to make a serious run again.

Being patient and not overpaying for Kawhi may be the best move, but we won't know until the season plays out.

It's true, a lot of things can change but I don't think that it's HS Basketball. It's James' business partners and where they reside. They are all in Cali and so, his business, outside of Basketball is also in Cali. Nike has been pushing this for a while as well. They want James in L.A. so I think it's more business related. I see James in Cali, even after his Basketball career.

Lets say you did get Leonard. James, Leonard and even George, had he come here, would not be enough to win the West. To win the West, you have to beat Golden State and to do that, you gotta have starters and you gotta have bench. This year, if you got Leonard and George, you would have to give away all your young talent. Next year, you don't have to do that. So honestly, I just don't think that whole argument of get Leonard now at any cost holds water. If James is here to win, then that doesn't happen for at least two years IMO. I think he knows that. You wanna keep James happy, win a championship and the only way for LA to do that, IMO, is to be patient and wait. Next year, all those young guys have another years experience and the Lakers are once again, loaded with cap. That's when you make your move to me. They do that this year and they are over the cap again. That's no good to me.

 

[jterrell]

It's true, a lot of things can change but I don't think that it's HS Basketball. It's James' business partners and where they reside. They are all in Cali and so, his business, outside of Basketball is also in Cali. Nike has been pushing this for a while as well. They want James in L.A. so I think it's more business related. I see James in Cali, even after his Basketball career.

Lets say you did get Leonard. James, Leonard and even George, had he come here, would not be enough to win the West. To win the West, you have to beat Golden State and to do that, you gotta have starters and you gotta have bench. This year, if you got Leonard and George, you would have to give away all your young talent. Next year, you don't have to do that. So honestly, I just don't think that whole argument of get Leonard now at any cost holds water. If James is here to win, then that doesn't happen for at least two years IMO. I think he knows that. You wanna keep James happy, win a championship and the only way for LA to do that, IMO, is to be patient and wait. Next year, all those young guys have another years experience and the Lakers are once again, loaded with cap. That's when you make your move to me. They do that this year and they are over the cap again. That's no good to me.

Completely disagree on team building stuff there.
LAL is best off going over the cap and having an over the cap but not luxury tax 9M MLE next off-season IMHO.
A team with LeBron and Kawhi with a 9m slot can get a 3rd very quality player in and resign everyone to large amounts... See Golden State/HOU.

The kids aren't likely going to play enough minutes to raise their value and their value may very well go down.
This is inarguable when judged as a collective.

AND if you resign them using cap space you wanted to "save" or lose them for nothing (see Randle who would have drawn a decent return at the trade deadline) what good did holding them do you?
I absolutely agree about LA for the business interests and life after basketball. LeBron has had this choice to make many times and he chose LA this time for a reason.
He is absolutely planning for life after basketball.

But I also agree with RT that LeBron may feel very differently when those losses come.
He has always been miserable when the team loses.

Right now I think LAL is a 4 or 5 seed in the West.
Likely a bit better playoff team than regular season team as LBJ shoulders playoff load and I'm not sure that many of the guys who get actual minutes are on an arrow moving up.
Rondo, Lance and LeBron are not getting better.
A resigned Brook Lopez is not getting better.
KCP and Kuz/Ingram are NOT getting as many shots so may get better in efficiency but not stats.
Lonzo has all the pressure in the world and now must beat out a veteran NBA champion.

At the end of the day Lakers have trade assets in young kids and I believe Magic is trying to max those out.
One such move could be Brandon Ingram and Luol Deng to the Mavs for Wes Mathews.
That would provide an immediate upgrade for LAL of a 3 and D wing plus remove a very bad contract they haven't been able to offload.
And Wes is a FA next year LAL could likely resign at a big discount or rescind for his salary slot.
LAL may have better offers but those are the types of deals a win now team makes.

One of the missed talking points thus far is teams will not want to be 3rd or lower in the WC.
Because then you likely have to play BOTH GSW and HOU to advance.
And that likely means collecting 60 wins this year.
LBJ has not missed a Finals in forever.
If he does his shine and appeal will fade as far as drawing teammates IMHO.
Sitting back hoping to do so next year after a middling 50 win year? Not a great plan imo.
35 year old LeBron? Plus who? Their isn't a second All-Star caliber player.

 

[jterrell]

Now, yes. After 1 more year, none

This is absolutely the case historically.
In CLE one guy had his trade value escalate after LeBron signed, Kyrie.
Every other young guy had their value drop.

MIA had the same type 1 guy escalate and 3 or 4 retreat scenario.

LAL likely needs one of these kids to play heavy and but the others not so much.
If they don't play Lance and Rondo they lose them for good. Those dudes are not the kind of guys mentally who can handle not playing.

 

[jterrell]