Let’s be honest: our talent level is bottom 15 in the league

[jay94]

No. We had a below average schedule last year and our last game was won because the Eagles didn’t care.

We had a tough schedule last year, we have an easier schedule this year honestly. We had the tenth strongest schedule I believe I can't remember exactly.

 

[jay94]

Our talent level is somewhere between 14-20 across the league. I don't agree with op on linebacker, we have arguably a top 5 lb with Lee, I will say it is more problematic then it was last year. Jaylon has been a disaster so far for what we gave up. Our oline I still believe can be top 5 and at least was top ten last year. We do not have a 1t, we have a bottom 5 receiving core and that may even be generous, our safeties are also a major liability. Our defensive line is average and secondary as well, but at least our secondary is young and has plenty of upside. Bottom 15 may of been harsh, but that is so much closer to reality than what the average Cowboy fan perceives this team, especially after listening to Jerry Jones, if you didn't know better you would think we have twice amount of Super Bowl wins than we actually win on how he talks up this team on a yearly basis.

 

[CowboyRoy]

You're going to be saying the same thing next year, he is only a 3rd year QB, give him time, he is only a 4th year qB, he is still developing, he has only be an NFL qb for 10 years, he will get there.. etc. He is what he is. An average to below average QB. Talking stats, wins losses, defense, running game, doesn't improve his talent level.

And yes, we should do whatever it takes to find a real NFL QB, because its hard to be consistent contenders without one. The only other option is get your D so dominate you don't care who the QB is.

Dak has already proven how talented he is. And when the online is back in shape and zeke is back in form I’ll be laughing in your face like the rest as dak is tearing it up again. Facts are stubborn things.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

if you don't have an Elite QB (which Dak is not and will not be

If you're such an excellent judge of talent you should apply for a GM position in the NFL.

NOBODY at this time can say if Dak will be elite or not, NOBODY.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

we have an easier schedule this year honestly.

Projecting the strength of schedule is a shot in the dark. Teams that were good last year could flop, teams that weren't good last year could flourish.

Just take the games as they come...

 

[GreenMean69]

If you're such an excellent judge of talent you should apply for a GM position in the NFL.

NOBODY at this time can say if Dak will be elite or not, NOBODY.

no because anything can happen . But its easy to see if he has the basic tools needed to be successful. He already has shown it and can be built from it. Now if he fails its on coaching and FO not building on his strengths . IMO he needs another solid TE to go alone with the sure hands of Witten . A speedy WR that can get separation not just stretch the field. RBs are more then set even without AlMo because Rod looked decent last year .

 

[LACowboysFan1]

There was never any question regarding the talent of Troy. He had all the tools. It was a matter of if he would put it together and be great at the nfl level.

Jeff George. Ryan Leaf. Vince Young.

All of them had all the tools, Top draft picks, which are made based on having "all the tools". But all NFL failures. Troy had the tools, but he also had one of the greatest offensive lines in football, the NFL rushing champion. Top offensive coordinator. Top defense in 1992 and 1993. Top wide receiver. Excellent tight end. If he hadn't had those, would he have been able to lead the team to 3 SB wins? No way to tell, can't go back and re-play the seasons.

Did Troy "elevate those around him"? He didn't do so well when the cap hit and he lost some of his top players on the offensive line, like Stepnoski, and the defense lost players like Norton, etc. He lost Jimmy, Switzer didn't do what was needed, so that may very well have been why there were no more SBs, of course.

My view on "elevating" those around him is what does a very successful player do when he leaves a team and goes to another. Like Romo and Laurent Robinson, had a great year with Romo, went to some other team and was cut soon after. In Troy's case, Alvin Harper had "all the tools", size, speed, hands, went to Tampa Bay and wasn't nearly as successful. So in that regard, it appears Romo was elite, but how many people say he wasn't because he didn't win SBs?

Is Dak elite? He hasn't had successful players go to another team and flop, again, he's only been here 2 years, and is burdened with Garrett, Marinelli, Dez with his attitude issues, etc. What would Dak have done in the early 1990's with an Irvin, Smith, Novacek, Turner and a top defense? We will never know.

"Elite" is a term that's not easily defined. Many say Eli isn't, but does an average quarterback win TWO Super Bowls? I don't think he's elite, but you can make that argument. Rothlisbergher is considered by most to be elite, he's got the two SB wins, 500 yard passing games and lots of playoff wins. But he also has a top defense most every year, Bell and Brown, how much does that contribute to his success? P. Manning was an obvious elite quarterback, but his team got blown out 40-8 in a SB. His second ring came when he had a very poor season by most NFL standards, yet he had the top defense.

I don't think you can judge most quarterbacks on two years work, and even more so in Dak's case, with the Elliot situation, Dez's distractions, a lower ranked defense, etc.

That's my view, as well as others, making absolute statements like "Dak's ever going to be elite" is not considering all the factors...

 

[LACowboysFan1]

We had a tough schedule last year, we have an easier schedule this year honestly. We had the tenth strongest schedule I believe I can't remember exactly.

Based on last year's record, Cowboys had 10th strongest last year, 15th this year. Easier supposedly but first of all those computations are based on the records of the teams you face, and we play the Texans, who were 4-12 last year, but they lost both Watson and Watt, think they'll be a 4-12 team this year if those two return? Not likely. Besides, 15th instead of 10th to me isn't enough of a drop to mean much....

 

[kskboys]

Jeff George. Ryan Leaf. Vince Young.

All of them had all the tools, Top draft picks, which are made based on having "all the tools". But all NFL failures. Troy had the tools, but he also had one of the greatest offensive lines in football, the NFL rushing champion. Top offensive coordinator. Top defense in 1992 and 1993. Top wide receiver. Excellent tight end. If he hadn't had those, would he have been able to lead the team to 3 SB wins? No way to tell, can't go back and re-play the seasons.

Did Troy "elevate those around him"? He didn't do so well when the cap hit and he lost some of his top players on the offensive line, like Stepnoski, and the defense lost players like Norton, etc. He lost Jimmy, Switzer didn't do what was needed, so that may very well have been why there were no more SBs, of course.

My view on "elevating" those around him is what does a very successful player do when he leaves a team and goes to another. Like Romo and Laurent Robinson, had a great year with Romo, went to some other team and was cut soon after. In Troy's case, Alvin Harper had "all the tools", size, speed, hands, went to Tampa Bay and wasn't nearly as successful. So in that regard, it appears Romo was elite, but how many people say he wasn't because he didn't win SBs?

Is Dak elite? He hasn't had successful players go to another team and flop, again, he's only been here 2 years, and is burdened with Garrett, Marinelli, Dez with his attitude issues, etc. What would Dak have done in the early 1990's with an Irvin, Smith, Novacek, Turner and a top defense? We will never know.

"Elite" is a term that's not easily defined. Many say Eli isn't, but does an average quarterback win TWO Super Bowls? I don't think he's elite, but you can make that argument. Rothlisbergher is considered by most to be elite, he's got the two SB wins, 500 yard passing games and lots of playoff wins. But he also has a top defense most every year, Bell and Brown, how much does that contribute to his success? P. Manning was an obvious elite quarterback, but his team got blown out 40-8 in a SB. His second ring came when he had a very poor season by most NFL standards, yet he had the top defense.

I don't think you can judge most quarterbacks on two years work, and even more so in Dak's case, with the Elliot situation, Dez's distractions, a lower ranked defense, etc.

That's my view, as well as others, making absolute statements like "Dak's ever going to be elite" is not considering all the factors...

Plunkett also won 2 and he was far from elite.

Bradshaw won 4, and he was good, but not elite.

Too many factors go into judging players to simply count super bowls.

 

[Diehardblues]

Plunkett also won 2 and he was far from elite.

Bradshaw won 4, and he was good, but not elite.

Too many factors go into judging players to simply count super bowls.

This is part of the problem . The definition of elite is often skewed by different opinions, views and beliefs coming in.

I understand your point of view but I think a valid argument could be raised that Bradshaw a former #1 pick , 4 time SB champion and HOF inducteee was indeed Elite .

And Plunkett a Heisman trophy winner, #1 pick and 2 time SB champion an elite talent.

Often there are elite talents who bust in the NFL for a variety of factors and then there are less herald talents who have elite performances and careers in NFL. Not many considered Montana or Brady as elite talents coming in. But yet they became 2 of the GOAT.

So defining “ elite” can be subjective.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

As far as Dak . I wouldn’t describe him as being an elite talent coming in. I’d argue so far he’s played above being a 4 th round pick and time will tell if he will become an elite QB while possibly not being an elite talent .

Yes, and that's all I'm saying - Dak may yet become an elite quarterback, and that you can't just make a blanket statement that he will never be...

 

[Diehardblues]

Yes, and that's all I'm saying - Dak may yet become an elite quarterback, and that you can't just make a blanket statement that he will never be...

Right ..of course not. Time will tell.

But we can make a judgement now he’s not an elite talent when it comes to his passing ability while he could become an elite QB.

Some elite talents don’t become elite QB’s and some less than elite talents become elite QB’s.

Success isn’t always defined by talent alone.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Right ..of course not. Time will tell.

Thank you, glad we agree on that...

 

[Cowboy4ever]

Jeff George. Ryan Leaf. Vince Young.

All of them had all the tools, Top draft picks, which are made based on having "all the tools". But all NFL failures. Troy had the tools, but he also had one of the greatest offensive lines in football, the NFL rushing champion. Top offensive coordinator. Top defense in 1992 and 1993. Top wide receiver. Excellent tight end. If he hadn't had those, would he have been able to lead the team to 3 SB wins? No way to tell, can't go back and re-play the seasons.

Did Troy "elevate those around him"? He didn't do so well when the cap hit and he lost some of his top players on the offensive line, like Stepnoski, and the defense lost players like Norton, etc. He lost Jimmy, Switzer didn't do what was needed, so that may very well have been why there were no more SBs, of course.

My view on "elevating" those around him is what does a very successful player do when he leaves a team and goes to another. Like Romo and Laurent Robinson, had a great year with Romo, went to some other team and was cut soon after. In Troy's case, Alvin Harper had "all the tools", size, speed, hands, went to Tampa Bay and wasn't nearly as successful. So in that regard, it appears Romo was elite, but how many people say he wasn't because he didn't win SBs?

Is Dak elite? He hasn't had successful players go to another team and flop, again, he's only been here 2 years, and is burdened with Garrett, Marinelli, Dez with his attitude issues, etc. What would Dak have done in the early 1990's with an Irvin, Smith, Novacek, Turner and a top defense? We will never know.

"Elite" is a term that's not easily defined. Many say Eli isn't, but does an average quarterback win TWO Super Bowls? I don't think he's elite, but you can make that argument. Rothlisbergher is considered by most to be elite, he's got the two SB wins, 500 yard passing games and lots of playoff wins. But he also has a top defense most every year, Bell and Brown, how much does that contribute to his success? P. Manning was an obvious elite quarterback, but his team got blown out 40-8 in a SB. His second ring came when he had a very poor season by most NFL standards, yet he had the top defense.

I don't think you can judge most quarterbacks on two years work, and even more so in Dak's case, with the Elliot situation, Dez's distractions, a lower ranked defense, etc.

That's my view, as well as others, making absolute statements like "Dak's ever going to be elite" is not considering all the factors...

Dak will never have elite talent. He has average ability in the QB position. That does not mean he won't be successful. That does not mean this team with him at QB can't win SB. But it does mean the rest of the team will have to be and play better. Dak is basically Brad Johnson. Great guy, average talent to play QB but h ad a very long and successful career and even won a SB when the team around him was GREAT. But team success does not change the talent level of the QB.

He is a smart dude. Seems to work hard. The team seems to be 100% behind him. And as a fan, I completely support him and want him to be successful as long as he on the team, as I do with every player and coach on the team. But at the same time, I realize he is limited in his ability and will never be the guy we can rely on to win a lot of games when things aren't going well. As long as he is the QB, we will have to have elite talent around him for him and the team to be successful. He proved that last year, when he curled up in a fetal position and disappeared for several games after Zeke went out. The team asked him to do more, play QB as an actual QB and he failed completely. If all he has to do is hand the ball to Zeke and make 3rd and short conversion throws, he will be fine. That is why even with Zeke the O struggles against Good Defenses because his can't step his game up to match the talent around him.

 

[Diehardblues]

Dak will never have elite talent. He has average ability in the QB position. That does not mean he won't be successful. That does not mean this team with him at QB can't win SB. But it does mean the rest of the team will have to be and play better. Dak is basically Brad Johnson. Great guy, average talent to play QB but h ad a very long and successful career and even won a SB when the team around him was GREAT. But team success does not change the talent level of the QB.

He is a smart dude. Seems to work hard. The team seems to be 100% behind him. And as a fan, I completely support him and want him to be successful as long as he on the team, as I do with every player and coach on the team. But at the same time, I realize he is limited in his ability and will never be the guy we can rely on to win a lot of games when things aren't going well. As long as he is the QB, we will have to have elite talent around him for him and the team to be successful. He proved that last year, when he curled up in a fetal position and disappeared for several games after Zeke went out. The team asked him to do more, play QB as an actual QB and he failed completely. If all he has to do is hand the ball to Zeke and make 3rd and short conversion throws, he will be fine. That is why even with Zeke the O struggles against Good Defenses because his can't step his game up to match the talent around him.

This is a concern if we’re admitting Dak isn’t everything we need at QB unless the surrounding support isn’t up to par. The circumstances are not always going to be ideal as they were in 2016 especially when defenses had no film on him.

We all like Dak personally and most got caught up in the hoopla in his Rookie season but if he’s average and could be a great backup for us why are we so intent on making him our future?

We have enough obstacles to overcome with a dysfunctional front office, puppetry coaching staff and struggling defense . We need closer to elite talent at the key positions especially QB. If Romo wasn’t enough do you think Dak will be?

I’m not sure why we become so emotionally attached to these players without more success?

 

[Cowboy4ever]

This is a concern if we’re admitting Dak isn’t everything we need at QB unless the surrounding support isn’t up to par. The circumstances are not always going to be ideal as they were in 2016 especially when defenses had no film on him.

We all like Dak personally and most got caught up in the hoopla in his Rookie season but if he’s average and could be a great backup for us why are we so intent on making him our future?

We have enough obstacles to overcome with a dysfunctional front office, puppetry coaching staff and struggling defense . We need closer to elite talent at the key positions especially QB. If Romo wasn’t enough do you think Dak will be?

I’m not sure why we become so emotionally attached to these players without more success?

I think a lot people just want to be right, whether that is good or bad for the team, they don't really care, as long as they were right. I hope he turns out to be better than I think. But I have a feeling he will be out in a year or two.

 

[Diehardblues]

I think a lot people just want to be right, whether that is good or bad for the team, they don't really care, as long as they were right. I hope he turns out to be better than I think. But I have a feeling he will be out in a year or two.

Surely those fans who have sharper instincts and accurate analysis would carry more weight than some fans hoping for the best?

I would hope all Cowboy fans all cheering him on to succeed but that doesn’t equate to following blindly.

It’s why it’s always been a conflict of interest for Jerry wearing the hat of the owner who should be the eternal optimistic promoter and a GM who needs to be more critical planning for worse case scenario.

 

[Torturedcowboysfan]

Qb- middle of the road
RB- great
WR- One of the worst units in the league
TE- Witten is a backup at this point and there’s no other starting caliber TE on the roster
OL- IF Tyron is healthy it’s still a very good unit. Big if and there is still 1 starter missing
DL- Getting better, but still middle of the road. 1 tech is still (perpetually) missing. Depth is also an issue behind the injury prone Lawrence.
LB- Yuck. just yuck
DB- Young CB’s are a breath of fresh air, but is there a #1 guy amongst the group? Very debatable
S- Little to no talent here. Minimum 1 starter still needed. Heath is just barely passable enough but should also be replaced if possible.

Discuss

I agree with a lot of what you said, but you have to think about this. Certain units are more important than other units, so being great at that will make up for 2 other units being bad. If you're ok at qb, its like being great at lb er. If you're great on the o-line that makes up for a weak unit somewhere else. We are number one in 2 units on our team, rb and o-line. We're also very good on the d-line. As far as health, every team would be weakened by injuries. If our o-line is healthy , its number 1. if our d-line is healthy, it's very good not counting Taco's improvement and Randy Gregory potentially playing.
WR is horrible. Qb is barely getting by.

 

[jnday]

Subpar QB, cheap no talent WR. Cheap DL that will be cut as the drop in productivity decreases.ge is much like the Chargers FO.

 

[Torturedcowboysfan]

The NFL is designed so teams have holes. We have holes along with every other team in the NFL. As long as you don't have a hole at QB you have a shot every season. And we don't know if we have a hole at QB the next two seasons will tell us if we do or not.

We dont have a hole at qb because it was covered with flex seal.