Let’s clarify what passing accuracy really means

[DogFace]

I think that a lot of people are offended by the win record comment like its all Dak. The team went 12-4 (75%) two years before Dak got to Dallas and then went 3-1 (75%) with Romo the year before Dak was drafted. They also added the best RB in football to that 75% win team when Dak arrived. The Cowboys have drafted fantastically over that period and added one of the best WR's in football with a 1st rounder.

What has Dak done with that 75% win team + Zeke + other good players? Won 67% of his games.

There are two very distinct anti-Dak crowds:
1. Dak sucks
2. Dak doesn't suck but isn't a superduperstar so he shouldn't be treated as such

I firmly disagree with the "Dak sucks" crowd but when the pro-Dak group starts parading his record around like he is a stud and deserves mucho dinero, I have to pipe in. I strongly suspect that the "Dak sucks" crowd is much smaller than you think. They just make up for it with volume.

Are many starters still left from those teams? I’m not sure.

In any case my arguments have included wins, but have also used many other stats that I feel show he’s, at minimum, very good.

When I’ve used wins it’s the stat of MOST wins of any QB other than Brady since he entered the league. I think having the 2nd most is impressive. Regardless of how good the team around him is.

I’d argue normally QB play is still the most important factor in a team winning.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Here’s a simple definition of QB passing accuracy I really like: The QB’s passes are where the receiver can catch them.

I don’t know about you, but the Dak critics that continually point out that his passes don’t look pretty enough or he missed this throw or that throw are either not paying attention or will never accept Dak’s abilities. He may never be a top 5 QB in this league but if your QB helps you win, who cares? Dak will have a bad game at some point this year as he has had in the past. Happens to every QB. But he has had and will have a lot more good ones than bad IMO.

NFL history is littered with QBs who threw beautiful tight spirals in tight windows...and were perennial losers. How about the much ballyhooed (in his day) Jeff George, who had a great arm and an ego to match. He played and lost for multiple NFL teams and will fade from memory quicker than many QBs with less ability. Who could forget the canon arm of JeMarcus Russell? Or our former backup and former Browns #1 pick Brandon Weeden who Jerry said threw the prettiest pass?

What I care about are QBs that can throw the ball accurate enough for our receivers to catch it. I’m not that impressed with how tight the spiral is. That’s cool and all but just get it there so the receivers can catch it. Be a leader and don’t kill us with turnovers.

Remember the Bears’ Jim McMahon? He didn’t throw the prettiest ball but he will show you his super bowl ring if you point that out. And he was a great leader who just won. Or Joe Kapp of the Vikings or Billy Kilmer of the skins who both threw more wounded ducks than anyone I can remember. But somehow they both took teams to SBs.

Accuracy= The receiver can catch it. Dak is an accurate QB by that metric.

Dak was as accurate as you are going to see any QB ever. Just laugh at the petty trolls and move on.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Why is it considered to be a a different standard when alot of us look at things like QBR . QBR takes into account primary and ancillary measurables to rate a QB's performance. Rayne Dakota ranked #17 last year. Whats so different about that?

Injury riddled Oline, Linehans/Garretts horrid scheme, half of the season with a bunch of scrubs to throw to. Another offseason to mature. That's the difference.

What was Dak's QBR once Cooper showed up?

 

[Established1971]

Here’s a simple definition of QB passing accuracy I really like: The QB’s passes are where the receiver can catch them.

I don’t know about you, but the Dak critics that continually point out that his passes don’t look pretty enough or he missed this throw or that throw are either not paying attention or will never accept Dak’s abilities. He may never be a top 5 QB in this league but if your QB helps you win, who cares? Dak will have a bad game at some point this year as he has had in the past. Happens to every QB. But he has had and will have a lot more good ones than bad IMO.

NFL history is littered with QBs who threw beautiful tight spirals in tight windows...and were perennial losers. How about the much ballyhooed (in his day) Jeff George, who had a great arm and an ego to match. He played and lost for multiple NFL teams and will fade from memory quicker than many QBs with less ability. Who could forget the canon arm of JeMarcus Russell? Or our former backup and former Browns #1 pick Brandon Weeden who Jerry said threw the prettiest pass?

What I care about are QBs that can throw the ball accurate enough for our receivers to catch it. I’m not that impressed with how tight the spiral is. That’s cool and all but just get it there so the receivers can catch it. Be a leader and don’t kill us with turnovers.

Remember the Bears’ Jim McMahon? He didn’t throw the prettiest ball but he will show you his super bowl ring if you point that out. And he was a great leader who just won. Or Joe Kapp of the Vikings or Billy Kilmer of the skins who both threw more wounded ducks than anyone I can remember. But somehow they both took teams to SBs.

Accuracy= The receiver can catch it. Dak is an accurate QB by that metric.

yet another basher bashing thread

 

[CowboyRoy]

It’s a good excuse, at any rate...
Yesterday Dak lobbed a terribly thrown pass in the general direction of an open Jarwin, but it made no difference because of a hapless, bumbling Giants defense wasn’t even in the picture.
Nearly a year ago to the day, Dak lobbed a terribly thrown pass in the general direction of an open Jarwin... and Carolina’s defense came to play that day and didn’t let him get away with it. Ended up being a one score loss, too.
Accuracy is only important when you need it, apparently...

Gotta love it when the Trolls are now reduced to cutting up TD passes. LOL

 

[buybuydandavis]

Here’s a simple definition of QB passing accuracy I really like: The QB’s passes are where the receiver can catch them.

I don’t know about you, but the Dak critics that continually point out that his passes don’t look pretty enough or he missed this throw or that throw are either not paying attention or will never accept Dak’s abilities. He may never be a top 5 QB in this league but if your QB helps you win, who cares? Dak will have a bad game at some point this year as he has had in the past. Happens to every QB. But he has had and will have a lot more good ones than bad IMO.

NFL history is littered with QBs who threw beautiful tight spirals in tight windows...and were perennial losers. How about the much ballyhooed (in his day) Jeff George, who had a great arm and an ego to match. He played and lost for multiple NFL teams and will fade from memory quicker than many QBs with less ability. Who could forget the canon arm of JeMarcus Russell? Or our former backup and former Browns #1 pick Brandon Weeden who Jerry said threw the prettiest pass?

What I care about are QBs that can throw the ball accurate enough for our receivers to catch it. I’m not that impressed with how tight the spiral is. That’s cool and all but just get it there so the receivers can catch it. Be a leader and don’t kill us with turnovers.

Remember the Bears’ Jim McMahon? He didn’t throw the prettiest ball but he will show you his super bowl ring if you point that out. And he was a great leader who just won. Or Joe Kapp of the Vikings or Billy Kilmer of the skins who both threw more wounded ducks than anyone I can remember. But somehow they both took teams to SBs.

Accuracy= The receiver can catch it. Dak is an accurate QB by that metric.

That's the most forgiving metric possible. Of course Dak scores higher by that metric. But every other QB does too.

Sports are graded on a curve. You don't really know that Dak is accurate by that metric until you compare him to other QBs by that metric.

Garrett beats Dak in HORSE. Dak stinks it up in QB challenges. Accuracy in terms of nearness to where you want the ball just hasn't been Dak's strength. And that's ok, because he other strengths that other QBs don't have.

Note that "can be caught" would include a lot of balls that get intercepted too, although not really for Dak, as he rarely throws balls up for grabs. In that case, the forgiveness of the metric plays *against* Dak.

Accuracy looked good on Sunday. Maybe his accuracy has improved and it won't be a particular point of criticism on him anymore. Dak analysis should cut back a little once they sign him. Sounds like it's soon, though it would be funny if his agent now says "hold on a minute".

 

[doomsday9084]

Are many starters still left from those teams? I’m not sure.

In any case my arguments have included wins, but have also used many other stats that I feel show he’s, at minimum, very good.

When I’ve used wins it’s the stat of MOST wins of any QB other than Brady since he entered the league. I think having the 2nd most is impressive. Regardless of how good the team around him is.

I’d argue normally QB play is still the most important factor in a team winning.

Dan Marino is one of the best QB's that I have ever seen play. Dan Fouts is up there too. Neither won a superbowl. OTOH, Trent Dilfer, Jim McMahon and several other rather mediocre QB's have rings. Last year, the 6 highest paid QB's in the NFL didn't even make the playoffs. Even more telling, if you go back the last 15 years or so, virtually every QB who won the super bowl was on his rookie deal or was giving a Tom Brady discount. I think only 1 or 2 qb's have won a title on a good "market" value contract. If anything, paying your QB a lot of money is statistically a good road to mediocrity. QB play isn't nearly the dominant value that some people think it is for winning.

I'm not irrational. QB play is obviously more important than your strong safety or something. That said, QB play is massively overrated. Its about the team and Dak has had a dam good one his whole career. If Dallas overrates Dak, they will regret it and that's not even anti-Dak. It seems that every team that puts too much money in their QB's pocket regrets it.

As far as other stats, he has been in the teens for most standard QB stats. Rating, TD's, yards, etc. Maybe (hopefully) this year will be different but there isn't a boatload of evidence that would put him in the top 10 of QB's.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

3 or 4 in a row?

How many incompletions did he have? How many of those were drops?

I give you credit for showing up to not make your case again. Maybe it’s time to admit you weren’t correct?
Pretty sure you said he’s terrible or something close to that. Terrible QB’s don’t set franchise records and have perfect passer ratings.

Yes, because only HOFers have perfect passer ratings... HOFers like Craig Erickson and Jeff Blake. Dak slobberers should be forced to take an IQ test and not be permitted to post until it exceeds their hero’s jersey number.

 

[CowboyRoy]

That's the most forgiving metric possible. Of course Dak scores higher by that metric. But every other QB does too.

Sports are graded on a curve. You don't really know that Dak is accurate by that metric until you compare him to other QBs by that metric.

Garrett beats Dak in HORSE. Dak stinks it up in QB challenges. Accuracy in terms of nearness to where you want the ball just hasn't been Dak's strength. And that's ok, because he other strengths that other QBs don't have.

Note that "can be caught" would include a lot of balls that get intercepted too, although not really for Dak, as he rarely throws balls up for grabs. In that case, the forgiveness of the metric plays *against* Dak.

Accuracy looked good on Sunday. Maybe his accuracy has improved and it won't be a particular point of criticism on him anymore. Dak analysis should cut back a little once they sign him. Sounds like it's soon, though it would be funny if his agent now says "hold on a minute".

The trolls still don't get it.

Clean pocket = better accuracy
Pressure= less accurate

Insert any you want into that equation and it applies.

 

[OldJarhead]

Here’s a simple definition of QB passing accuracy I really like: The QB’s passes are where the receiver can catch them.

I don’t know about you, but the Dak critics that continually point out that his passes don’t look pretty enough or he missed this throw or that throw are either not paying attention or will never accept Dak’s abilities. He may never be a top 5 QB in this league but if your QB helps you win, who cares? Dak will have a bad game at some point this year as he has had in the past. Happens to every QB. But he has had and will have a lot more good ones than bad IMO.

NFL history is littered with QBs who threw beautiful tight spirals in tight windows...and were perennial losers. How about the much ballyhooed (in his day) Jeff George, who had a great arm and an ego to match. He played and lost for multiple NFL teams and will fade from memory quicker than many QBs with less ability. Who could forget the canon arm of JeMarcus Russell? Or our former backup and former Browns #1 pick Brandon Weeden who Jerry said threw the prettiest pass?

What I care about are QBs that can throw the ball accurate enough for our receivers to catch it. I’m not that impressed with how tight the spiral is. That’s cool and all but just get it there so the receivers can catch it. Be a leader and don’t kill us with turnovers.

Remember the Bears’ Jim McMahon? He didn’t throw the prettiest ball but he will show you his super bowl ring if you point that out. And he was a great leader who just won. Or Joe Kapp of the Vikings or Billy Kilmer of the skins who both threw more wounded ducks than anyone I can remember. But somehow they both took teams to SBs.

Accuracy= The receiver can catch it. Dak is an accurate QB by that metric.

Sure, lower the bar to make him accurate!

He's gotten better, but when the window is tighter and he has to make THAT throw to win or tie the game will he be able to? I hope so, but I still don't believe. "Why?" You ask. Look at several of his throws yesterday. Behind and low. Yes, the receiver made the catch, but if the coverage had been, well, NOT THE GIANTS, the receiver may have not been able to make the catch. Look, #4 is a stud, a pure athlete, strong, full of heart. From all I've read a great leader and down right good guy, but is he a $30 mil QB? I still don't think so, but I have been wrong about a lot of things in the past.

 

[G2]

Dak Prescott is the only quarterback in NFL history to produce back-to-back regular season games of 380 yards passing, 4 touchdowns, and 0 interceptions.

 

[Colombiacowboy]

Here’s a simple definition of QB passing accuracy I really like: The QB’s passes are where the receiver can catch them.

I don’t know about you, but the Dak critics that continually point out that his passes don’t look pretty enough or he missed this throw or that throw are either not paying attention or will never accept Dak’s abilities. He may never be a top 5 QB in this league but if your QB helps you win, who cares? Dak will have a bad game at some point this year as he has had in the past. Happens to every QB. But he has had and will have a lot more good ones than bad IMO.

NFL history is littered with QBs who threw beautiful tight spirals in tight windows...and were perennial losers. How about the much ballyhooed (in his day) Jeff George, who had a great arm and an ego to match. He played and lost for multiple NFL teams and will fade from memory quicker than many QBs with less ability. Who could forget the canon arm of JeMarcus Russell? Or our former backup and former Browns #1 pick Brandon Weeden who Jerry said threw the prettiest pass?

What I care about are QBs that can throw the ball accurate enough for our receivers to catch it. I’m not that impressed with how tight the spiral is. That’s cool and all but just get it there so the receivers can catch it. Be a leader and don’t kill us with turnovers.

Remember the Bears’ Jim McMahon? He didn’t throw the prettiest ball but he will show you his super bowl ring if you point that out. And he was a great leader who just won. Or Joe Kapp of the Vikings or Billy Kilmer of the skins who both threw more wounded ducks than anyone I can remember. But somehow they both took teams to SBs.

Accuracy= The receiver can catch it. Dak is an accurate QB by that metric.

As my high school coach used to tell us, if the ball touches any part of your hand, you should catch it.

 

[DogFace]

Yes, because only HOFers have perfect passer ratings... HOFers like Craig Erickson and Jeff Blake. Dak slobberers should be forced to take an IQ test and not be permitted to post until it exceeds their hero’s jersey number.

You ignored all my questions. Wonder why
Here’s another:
Were any of those QB’s terrible? As you have routinely replied that Dak is.


Also, what do you mean exactly by slobberers? What are you implying?

 

[Hennessy_King]

Dan Marino is one of the best QB's that I have ever seen play. Dan Fouts is up there too. Neither won a superbowl. OTOH, Trent Dilfer, Jim McMahon and several other rather mediocre QB's have rings. Last year, the 6 highest paid QB's in the NFL didn't even make the playoffs. Even more telling, if you go back the last 15 years or so, virtually every QB who won the super bowl was on his rookie deal or was giving a Tom Brady discount. I think only 1 or 2 qb's have won a title on a good "market" value contract. If anything, paying your QB a lot of money is statistically a good road to mediocrity. QB play isn't nearly the dominant value that some people think it is for winning.

I'm not irrational. QB play is obviously more important than your strong safety or something. That said, QB play is massively overrated. Its about the team and Dak has had a dam good one his whole career. If Dallas overrates Dak, they will regret it and that's not even anti-Dak. It seems that every team that puts too much money in their QB's pocket regrets it.

As far as other stats, he has been in the teens for most standard QB stats. Rating, TD's, yards, etc. Maybe (hopefully) this year will be different but there isn't a boatload of evidence that would put him in the top 10 of QB's.

That's true as soon as we paid Romo it was years of 8-8

 

[KMY_Amber]

Dak Prescott is the only quarterback in NFL history to produce back-to-back regular season games of 380 yards passing, 4 touchdowns, and 0 interceptions.

History???? Wow! Really? I didn't know that. Interesting stat. Thanks.

Much props, Dak...

 

[Kevinicus]

Ok, thanks. Looks like Dak did a good job yesterday according to your definition.

After being off a little to start, yes. Dak was good yesterday, no doubt.

 

[G2]

History???? Wow! Really? I didn't know that. Interesting stat. Thanks.

Much props, Dak...

A little cherry picked, but fun nonetheless.

 

[Chuck 54]

Very true. I don't know of any QB who throws perfect passes 100% of the time, there are ample occasions where the WR has to adjust to the ball and make the tough catch. Aikman was very accurate yet I saw Mike make some very hard catches on balls that were less than perfect.

Aikman was a surgeon on short and intermediate timing throws, immaculate on the slant and out, but he was never accurate on bombs to open receivers....his one flaw. He purposely started slightly underthrowing open receivers to insure completions rather than overthrow them.

 

[Pass2Run]

The trolls still don't get it.

Clean pocket = better accuracy
Pressure= less accurate

Insert any you want into that equation and it applies.

It's not just that.

Dak is legitimately evolving into one of the best in the NFL.

And they still can't see it.

 

[G2]