Lets not let Roy "Who me" Williams slide...

[SMCowboy]

I understand this. That's kind of the point. Good QBs typically don't throw into double coverage. Good QBs throw to the miss match. If Roy is seeing a goodly amount of deep balls, it's probably because other OCs believe it's a miss match.

You are missing the point.... The reason that so many balls are thrown into double coverage when Roy Williams is around is because he is SO GREAT at anticipating where the ball is going to be that he gets over to help on plays that other players would NEVER get to....

If you go back and look at all of the plays the ball is thrown BEFORE Roy Williams comes into the picture... Unless you think that the QB is anticipating that Roy Williams is going to come from the other side of the field to try and make a play on the ball and throws it anyway.....

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

OK, well that is much better to hear.. I havent read this whole thread, just from the point I joined in, so I dont know what your history is on the subject.. it just seemed like you were throwing him under thie bus.

but you still didnt answer my question: do you agree that overall he saved us 6 points yesterday? that is combining, as you put it, his strengths and his weaknesses and his good plays and his bad plays yesterday.. at the end of the day, he still saved us 6 points.. if every defender on our team did that, we would have held the Commanders to -66 points yesterday..

I think he saved 6 and cost 6. I think that on the goal line, that was a collective defensive effort so I don't say it was Roy though he is tremendous when he's allowed to make plays around the LOS. I think he cost 6 on the PI but I guess more then that, I don't really see things as plus 6 here, minus 6 there. In the end, players are measured by consistancy. For example, a QB can throw for two TDs but if he gives one up that cost 6, the chances of losing are mangnified greatly. I think the statistic says something like 70% of the time, the team that gives up the scoring TO loses vs the team that doesn't commite that error. It's consistancy that you must have rather then the spectacular in many cases. The problem is not that Roy can't cover it. We know this is a problem. It's like that old saying. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result. It's not a question of if bad things are going to happen if you ask Roy to play as you would a FS. It's a question of when. That's not a Roy thing so much as it is an issue with what were trying to do with our scheme. Let him make plays on the field where he can be a HOF player. That is what is the most maddening thing to me. We just don't do this enough IMO.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You are missing the point.... The reason that so many balls are thrown into double coverage when Roy Williams is around is because he is SO GREAT at anticipating where the ball is going to be that he gets over to help on plays that other players would NEVER get to....

If you go back and look at all of the plays the ball is thrown BEFORE Roy Williams comes into the picture... Unless you think that the QB is anticipating that Roy Williams is going to come from the other side of the field to try and make a play on the ball and throws it anyway.....

I'm not missing the point. QBs make a pre-snap read on the safeties and this often determins where the ball will go. That's why you use motion to unmask coverages. Most QBs have a couple of options on how, where to throw. If Roy is being thrown at a lot, it's because the QB sees that he has a decent chance of making a play down field. I don't agree with your assesment. There are many players in the NFL who are much better at providing help over the top IMO. It is not because Roy is so great and so fast that he just gets himself in situations where he just misses the play. Sorry, that's not how I see it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It might be because he's a SAFETY and therefore is USUALLY covering DEEP BALLS.

Stating the obvious will not bring much to this discussion. Are you saying that QBs typically throw balls up into double coverage regardless of how a WR is being covered?

It is my experience that most pro QBs throw to miss matches. If a QB sees that Roy has the deep help and elects to throw it there, then he must believe that Roy isn't going to be able to make the play. If he thought that Roy would get there in plenty of time to make the pick, he probably wouldn't throw it. At least, that's how I see it.

 

[SMCowboy]

I'm not missing the point. QBs make a pre-snap read on the safeties and this often determins where the ball will go. That's why you use motion to unmask coverages. Most QBs have a couple of options on how, where to throw. If Roy is being thrown at a lot, it's because the QB sees that he has a decent chance of making a play down field. I don't agree with your assesment. There are many players in the NFL who are much better at providing help over the top IMO. It is not because Roy is so great and so fast that he just gets himself in situations where he just misses the play. Sorry, that's not how I see it.

Do you really think that QB's know that Roy Williams is going to be running across tring to make a play on an INT and just say that they don't care because if it doesn't fall incomplete there is still a 50/50 chance that it will get picked?

I am sorry I have spent a TON of time on the sidelines with coaches and noone has EVER said to throw it into double coverage....

QB's do make presnap reads on where players are going to be, that is exactly right. But only an idiot would PURPOSELY throw the ball into double coverage.

 

[SMCowboy]

It is my experience that most pro QBs throw to miss matches. If a QB sees that Roy has the deep help and elects to throw it there, then he must believe that Roy isn't going to be able to make the play. If he thought that Roy would get there in plenty of time to make the pick, he probably wouldn't throw it. At least, that's how I see it.

ABQ, as I said in the previous post. I have spent a TON of time on the sidelines in college games. And I can tell you never ONCE did a coach tell a player good read when throwing the ball in double coverage. Even when the play turns out good I can tell you from experience that a coach will ALWAYS pull the QB over and tell them to be more careful and not to throw the ball in double coverage.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Do you really think that QB's know that Roy Williams is going to be running across tring to make a play on an INT and just say that they don't care because if it doesn't fall incomplete there is still a 50/50 chance that it will get picked?

I am sorry I have spent a TON of time on the sidelines with coaches and noone has EVER said to throw it into double coverage....

QB's do make presnap reads on where players are going to be, that is exactly right. But only an idiot would PURPOSELY throw the ball into double coverage.

Your talking to yourself.

Yes, I do believe that QBs know, many times, which safety has coverage responsability. Many times, it's dictated by the offense. Bottom line, QBs are not going to throw into double coverage if the safety is in good position to make the play.

At this point, we are just going in circles. QBs are throwing at Roy in coverage and there having success deep. I can not say that any more clearly. Roy is a SS IMO. If you ask him to play like a FS, your asking for trouble. It's a simple as that IMO.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

ABQ, as I said in the previous post. I have spent a TON of time on the sidelines in college games. And I can tell you never ONCE did a coach tell a player good read when throwing the ball in double coverage. Even when the play turns out good I can tell you from experience that a coach will ALWAYS pull the QB over and tell them to be more careful and not to throw the ball in double coverage.

That's my point. QBs won't typically throw into double coverage unless they believe they have a decent chance of beating the coverage. That's the whole point.

 

[SMCowboy]

Your talking to yourself.

Yes, I do believe that QBs know, many times, which safety has coverage responsability. Many times, it's dictated by the offense. Bottom line, QBs are not going to throw into double coverage if the safety is in good position to make the play.

At this point, we are just going in circles. QBs are throwing at Roy in coverage and there having success deep. I can not say that any more clearly. Roy is a SS IMO. If you ask him to play like a FS, your asking for trouble. It's a simple as that IMO.

WOW!!!! That is all I can say.... I have definately heard it all....

I can promise you from EXPERIENCE that you could not be farther from the truth.....

Any QB would be benched so fast for using that approach it would not even be funny.....

 

[SMCowboy]

That's my point. QBs won't typically throw into double coverage unless they believe they have a decent chance of beating the coverage. That's the whole point.

NO QB will purposely throw into double coverage.... EVER!!!!!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

WOW!!!! That is all I can say.... I have definately heard it all....

I can promise you from EXPERIENCE that you could not be farther from the truth.....

Any QB would be benched so fast for using that approach it would not even be funny.....

If you say so.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

NO QB will purposely throw into double coverage.... EVER!!!!!

Of course not. That is why Randle-El is being discussed now right?

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

I agree. During the pre-season we were told on this board how Roy is perhaps the best safety in the NFL.

My arse.

my arse agrees with your arse.
RW is our Bledsoe on defense!

 

[royhitshard]

I can picture him trying to help out on a bomb to Reggie Wayne, running into the opposing assistant coach on the sideline, and blaming him for interferring.

Dude, what are you smoking?