Lets not let Roy "Who me" Williams slide...

[SMCowboy]

Dude stop - you sound absurd....it's like defending an alcoholic when all the world can see he or she is....
Roy is a habitual offender of gross defensive dsiplay when said pig be in the air...
It's plain and it's simple and it's not hard to comprehend....
Stop

You are the one that sounds absurd. You are expecting perfection out of Roy Williams. And that simply is not going to happen, no one is perfect. Does he get beat absolutely. But, he is a SS that is being forced into helping out at FS and is still doing a pretty darn good job of it....

For everyone that is complaining about why Roy Williams is getting beat so often explain how he is still able to ranked tied for 16th in the league among ALL DB's in passes defensed. How is he tied with Troy Polamalu and Sean Jones for most passes defensed?

Right now Roy Williams has 3 INT's, 2 Fumble Recoveries, and 2 tackles behind the LOS, to go along with 9 passes defensed. Pretty good number in my book....

 

[SMCowboy]

Truly great players don't need to be defended every other week.

They have to when idiots expect them to be perfect instead of just the best in the league......

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

They have to when idiots expect them to be perfect instead of just the best in the league......

IMO, Roy is not the best in the league. I think that this statement is a bit of a stretch. He is very good at some things and very average at others. That's the truth of the matter, as I see it.

 

[EMMITTnROY]

OK, I don't have time to read through this whole thread, so I don't know what's already been said.. but here are my two cents..

Roy made at least 4 huge plays for us yesterday.. 2 great stops on the goal line stand.. the play where Cooley dropped what would have been a huge gain and put the Commanders in field goal range because he saw Roy coming.. the 3 yard loss that he put on Portis at the end of the game to not give them the first down and to make Novak miss that field goal.. all four of those plays directly resulted in Roy singlehandedly taking away points from them.. 7 on the goalline, at least 3 on Cooley's drop, and at least 3 on that Portis play.. thats 13 points that I see he saved us..

his two plays that everyone is steaming about? the Randle El pass interference was Newman's responsibility and Roy did well just to catch up to Randle El.. yes, he should have turned and seen the ball but Randle El, in case you dont know, is one fast mother and Roy was just trying to catch up to him to prevent a touchdown because had he not, its an easy TD.. the other play everyone is moaning about was his dropped interception.. well, i think that everyone on this team has dropped a few of those.. he made the play to be in position in the first place and defensed the pass.. last I checked, he was leading this team in interceptions AND passes defensed.. I'm also pretty sure that the Commanders didnt score on that drive.. so lets say that you want to put the blame on Roy for the TD on the Randle El pass interference drive.. that's -7 points for him..

he saved us 13 points and cost us 7.. the way I see it, he still saved us 6 points overall.. thats pretty darn good if you ask me..

have you guys EVER watched other safeties play?? Polamalu, Reed, Taylor, and Dawkins get beat ALL THE TIME.. Roy's stats are superior to theirs.. Roy is a great player, period.. everyone just gets PMS after a loss and for some reason, Roy always gets the blame.. its ridiculous..

 

[SMCowboy]

IMO, Roy is not the best in the league. I think that this statement is a bit of a stretch. He is very good at some things and very average at others. That's the truth of the matter, as I see it.

You mean that he isn't as good in coverage as Champ Bailey is? Here are his stats:

3 INT's, 0 FF, 2 FR, 0 sacks, 9 Pdef

As for the other great safties in the game, here are there stats:
Troy Polamalu - 3 INT's, 1 FF, 0 FR, 0 sacks, 9 Pdef
Sean Taylor - 0 INT's, 3 FF, 0 FR, 0 sacks, 3 Pdef
Brian Dawkins - 1 INT, 3 FF, 0FR, 0 sacks, 3 Pdef
Donovin Darius - 0 INT, 0 FF, 0 FR, 0 sacks, 2 Pdef
Ed Reed - 1 INT, 1 FF, 0 FR, 0 sacks, 2 Pdef

No safety has made more PLAYS than Roy Williams has. Has he made every play no, but no one has. Maybe he gives up plays, but some of that is because he gets to places to try and make plays that most safeties would not get to. So the question is would you rather have a safety who gets to everything and is beat at times. Or a safety that is not beat as often, but never gets places to make plays.

Because a little hint for everyone. ALL safeties get beat for big plays several times a year. That is why they are safeties and not CB's because coverage is NOT what they do best.

Sure, I would LOVE to have a safety that could hit like Roy Williams but cover like Champ Bailey. But unfortionately that player does not exist and till he does Roy Williams will continue to be the best safety in football.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

his two plays that everyone is steaming about? the Randle El pass interference was Newman's responsibility and Roy did well just to catch up to Randle El.. yes, he should have turned and seen the ball but Randle El, in case you dont know, is one fast mother and Roy was just trying to catch up to him to prevent a touchdown because had he not, its an easy TD.. the other play everyone is moaning about was his dropped interception.. well, i think that everyone on this team has dropped a few of those.. he made the play to be in position in the first place and defensed the pass.. last I checked, he was leading this team in interceptions AND passes defensed.. I'm also pretty sure that the Commanders didnt score on that drive.. so lets say that you want to put the blame on Roy for the TD on the Randle El pass interference drive.. that's -7 points for him..

I don't agree with this. I agree with you on his big plays and how important they were, no question about that in my mind, but not this. It's the Safeties job to cover that play when the CB gets beat. He took a bad angle on a ball that probably would not have been caught and he got flagged for it. Roy does that. He takes bad angles to the ball a lot. That's a short coming in his game. We all know it. However, to say it wasn't his responsability is wrong IMO. Yeah, Newman should have not gotten sucked in but remember that Newman's also has run support responsabilities. Roy should have played that better IMO but he didn't. It is what it is.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You mean that he isn't as good in coverage as Champ Bailey is? Here are his stats:

3 INT's, 0 FF, 2 FR, 0 sacks, 9 Pdef

As for the other great safties in the game, here are there stats:
Troy Polamalu - 3 INT's, 1 FF, 0 FR, 0 sacks, 9 Pdef
Sean Taylor - 0 INT's, 3 FF, 0 FR, 0 sacks, 3 Pdef
Brian Dawkins - 1 INT, 3 FF, 0FR, 0 sacks, 3 Pdef
Donovin Darius - 0 INT, 0 FF, 0 FR, 0 sacks, 2 Pdef
Ed Reed - 1 INT, 1 FF, 0 FR, 0 sacks, 2 Pdef

No safety has made more PLAYS than Roy Williams has. Has he made every play no, but no one has. Maybe he gives up plays, but some of that is because he gets to places to try and make plays that most safeties would not get to.

No, I mean that Roy Lee Williams is not as good in pass coverage as you would like him to be period. You can throw up all the statistics you would like but the truth is that Roy has a habbit of taking bad angles to the ball. You can make 20 good plays in a game but if you make two bad ones that end up in scores, you've had a bad game. That's the bottom line. It is what it is. No mystery to it IMO.

 

[SMCowboy]

No, I mean that Roy Lee Williams is not as good in pass coverage as you would like him to be period. You can throw up all the statistics you would like but the truth is that Roy has a habbit of taking bad angles to the ball. You can make 20 good plays in a game but if you make two bad ones that end up in scores, you've had a bad game. That's the bottom line. It is what it is. No mystery to it IMO.

No safety is as good in pass coverage as you are asking for them to be.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No safety is as good in pass coverage as you are asking for them to be.

Perhaps you can try and explain to me what I'm asking for? Clearly, I don't know what it is I'm trying to say to myself here.

 

[SMCowboy]

Perhaps you can try and explain to me what I'm asking for? Clearly, I don't know what it is I'm trying to say to myself here.

What you are saying that you want is a safety that never gets beat, and that does not exist.

Explain this to me. If Roy Williams is so bad in coverage how is it that he is tied for 2nd among all safeties in passes defensed yet can still get beat more that anyone else?

I can think of only 2 explanations:
#1.) He does NOT actually get beat more than anyone else...
#2.) He gets to places that no one else could get to... Thus leading to more chances for him to get beat. Leading to this question. Do you want a safety that never gets beat but does not get to plays that a Roy Williams would get to. Or a guy that does get beat at times but makes plays that noone else would get to?

 

[EMMITTnROY]

I don't agree with this. I agree with you on his big plays and how important they were, no question about that in my mind, but not this. It's the Safeties job to cover that play when the CB gets beat. He took a bad angle on a ball that probably would not have been caught and he got flagged for it. Roy does that. He takes bad angles to the ball a lot. That's a short coming in his game. We all know it. However, to say it wasn't his responsability is wrong IMO. Yeah, Newman should have not gotten sucked in but remember that Newman's also has run support responsabilities. Roy should have played that better IMO but he didn't. It is what it is.

OK, but you seem to agree with my overall analysis besides this one play? so he has ONE pass interference call on a speedy wideout that got by Terence Newman and now he is gonna get thrown under the bus by everyone?

my main question is this: you agree with his big plays and in my argument, I conceded that most will pin a touchdown on his PI on Randle El.. so if you agree with my overall analysis, do you agree that he saved the Cowboys 6 points overall yesterday? and would you not take that every single Sunday?

 

[skinsngibbs4life]

Roy is the D's best playmaker

I dont know about that, Demarcus Ware is quickly becoming the best player on the defense. Maybe not yet, but he will be there soon

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

What you are saying that you want is a safety that never gets beat, and that does not exist.

Explain this to me. If Roy Williams is so bad in coverage how is it that he is tied for 2nd among all safeties in passes defensed yet can still get beat more that anyone else?

I can think of only 2 explanations:
#1.) He does NOT actually get beat more than anyone else...
#2.) He gets to places that no one else could get to... Thus leading to more chances for him to get beat. Leading to this question. Do you want a safety that never gets beat but does not get to plays that a Roy Williams would get to. Or a guy that does get beat at times but makes plays that noone else would get to?

I would appriciate it if you could show me where I ever said that I wanted a safety who doesn't get beat.

Roy Williams gets thrown at a lot. Why do teams throw into double coverage so much? Look at the stats you posted. Polamalu and Roy each have 9 pass defenses yes? For what it's worth, I don't think either one are really all that good in pass defense. The problem here is that you think the pass defenses are an indicator of how good Roy is in pass defense. In reality, I'd rather have a FS that doesn't get thrown at as much. Why? Because it probably means that he's in good position. Pass Defenses don't tell a very good story of how good a DB you are IMO. Roy takes bad angles to the ball too often. It is what it is. I'm not the only one who sees this. You can choose to believe this or not. I'm not hear to try and convince you. Some people will never be convinced. That is your choice. Me, I see him for what he is. I don't blame him for being put in situations where he is having to cover deep with such regularity. To me, it's a issue with the scheme more then anything. I like RLW but I'm not blind to his strengths and weakness'. He is what he is. It's up to our coaching staff to put him in situations where his talent can make plays and his weakness' can be masked. If we continue to fail where this is concerned, we will continue to see what we saw yesterday. Roy is going to take poor angles because it's just not something he does well IMO.

 

[TtownCowboy]

Roy Williams is what he is, a good to great strong safety. End of story on him. The issue to me at the end of the day is still the fact that we can't get pressure on the QB. We haven't for the las humpteen years. Our DBacks are left in coverage way to long. Newman made a choice that that was either an end around or Randle El is gonna throw it, that's a 50/50.
We get more pressure on the QB and Roy stays out of coverage and we all love him. IMHO

 

[SMCowboy]

I would appriciate it if you could show me where I ever said that I wanted a safety who doesn't get beat.

Roy Williams gets thrown at a lot. Why do teams throw into double coverage so much? Look at the stats you posted. Polamalu and Roy each have 9 pass defenses yes? For what it's worth, I don't think either one are really all that good in pass defense. The problem here is that you think the pass defenses are an indicator of how good Roy is in pass defense. In reality, I'd rather have a FS that doesn't get thrown at as much. Why? Because it probably means that he's in good position. Pass Defenses don't tell a very good story of how good a DB you are IMO. Roy takes bad angles to the ball too often. It is what it is. I'm not the only one who sees this. You can choose to believe this or not. I'm not hear to try and convince you. Some people will never be convinced. That is your choice. Me, I see him for what he is. I don't blame him for being put in situations where he is having to cover deep with such regularity. To me, it's a issue with the scheme more then anything. I like RLW but I'm not blind to his strengths and weakness'. He is what he is. It's up to our coaching staff to put him in situations where his talent can make plays and his weakness' can be masked. If we continue to fail where this is concerned, we will continue to see what we saw yesterday. Roy is going to take poor angles because it's just not something he does well IMO.

Passes defensed ARE a HUGE stat for safeties, because safeties are not normally lined up in coverage on WR's from the start. There job is to cover up for DB's when they are beat. The passes are you are referring to are never thrown when Roy Williams is covering the receiver the whole way, the balls are thrown when the receiver is open and Roy Williams attempts to come in and make a play on the ball to save a big play.

All of the big plays either given up or made are were Roy Williams is coming in from and angle to try and make a play, not running stride for stride with a receiver.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

OK, but you seem to agree with my overall analysis besides this one play? so he has ONE pass interference call on a speedy wideout that got by Terence Newman and now he is gonna get thrown under the bus by everyone?

my main question is this: you agree with his big plays and in my argument, I conceded that most will pin a touchdown on his PI on Randle El.. so if you agree with my overall analysis, do you agree that he saved the Cowboys 6 points overall yesterday? and would you not take that every single Sunday?

As I've said over and over again. Roy is a great player, IMO, when left to do what he does best. If you ask him to do things that he is not suited to, the results are probably going to be predictable. I really don't hold Roy responsible for much of what is going on now. He does not deserve to go under the bus, per say. Roy made several very good plays Sunday but that PI was not one of them. If I have an issue with that play, it's not that Roy didn't get there in time to break it up. He is limited in this capacity. He does not have the ability to cover that play like some others do. To me, the mistake was in trying to locate the ball rather then waiting for the WR to make a play on it. Roy does a couple of things real well. One of them is dropping the hammer. I would have rather seen Roy let the flight of the ball go and rather then trying to locate it and draw the interferance, draw a bead on the WR. The chances of Roy getting over to make that play were not as good as him getting over in time to seperate Randle-El from the ball IMO. Had he done this, I think the ball probably falls incomplete and Randle-El doesn't make the catch. If he does, I'd still rather take my chances on Roy laying wood and sperating him from it rather then breaking it up. Do what you do well in that situation. Now, it's easy for me to say this having the benifit of hind sight. When it's happening in real time, it's a splite second kinda thing and in that splite second, Roy elected to try and play the ball.

To me, the real problem, as I've said many times is that we continue to put Roy in a position of having to play as a FS. He could be a Hall of Fame time SS IMO. FS is another matter.

 

[EMMITTnROY]

As I've said over and over again. Roy is a great player, IMO, when left to do what he does best. If you ask him to do things that he is not suited to, the results are probably going to be predictable. I really don't hold Roy responsible for much of what is going on now. He does not deserve to go under the bus, per say. Roy made several very good plays Sunday but that PI was not one of them. If I have an issue with that play, it's not that Roy didn't get there in time to break it up. He is limited in this capacity. He does not have the ability to cover that play like some others do. To me, the mistake was in trying to locate the ball rather then waiting for the WR to make a play on it. Roy does a couple of things real well. One of them is dropping the hammer. I would have rather seen Roy let the flight of the ball go and rather then trying to locate it and draw the interferance, draw a bead on the WR. The chances of Roy getting over to make that play were not as good as him getting over in time to seperate Randle-El from the ball IMO. Had he done this, I think the ball probably falls incomplete and Randle-El doesn't make the catch. If he does, I'd still rather take my chances on Roy laying wood and sperating him from it rather then breaking it up. Do what you do well in that situation. Now, it's easy for me to say this having the benifit of hind sight. When it's happening in real time, it's a splite second kinda thing and in that splite second, Roy elected to try and play the ball.

To me, the real problem, as I've said many times is that we continue to put Roy in a position of having to play as a FS. He could be a Hall of Fame time SS IMO. FS is another matter.

OK, well that is much better to hear.. I havent read this whole thread, just from the point I joined in, so I dont know what your history is on the subject.. it just seemed like you were throwing him under thie bus.

but you still didnt answer my question: do you agree that overall he saved us 6 points yesterday? that is combining, as you put it, his strengths and his weaknesses and his good plays and his bad plays yesterday.. at the end of the day, he still saved us 6 points.. if every defender on our team did that, we would have held the Commanders to -66 points yesterday..

 

[KC10Sooner]

How many times has Roy saved our bacon with INt's or fumbles.

The eagles game last year comes to mind....the Carolina game....last week.

He makes mistakes, get over it....I still want him on my team becuase more often than not he makes things happen.

Here's a novel concept..How about we support our team and not become like Eagle fans and crucify them for every mistake

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Passes defensed ARE a HUGE stat for safeties, because safeties are not normally lined up in coverage on WR's from the start. There job is to cover up for DB's when they are beat. The passes are you are referring to are never thrown when Roy Williams is covering the receiver the whole way, the balls are thrown when the receiver is open and Roy Williams attempts to come in and make a play on the ball to save a big play.

All of the big plays either given up or made are were Roy Williams is coming in from and angle to try and make a play, not running stride for stride with a receiver.

I understand this. That's kind of the point. Good QBs typically don't throw into double coverage. Good QBs throw to the miss match. If Roy is seeing a goodly amount of deep balls, it's probably because other OCs believe it's a miss match.

 

[TEK2000]

I understand this. That's kind of the point. Good QBs typically don't throw into double coverage. Good QBs throw to the miss match. If Roy is seeing a goodly amount of deep balls, it's probably because other OCs believe it's a miss match.

It might be because he's a SAFETY and therefore is USUALLY covering DEEP BALLS.