Let's try looking at the Sean Taylor case LOGICALLY...

[hooskins]

I hope this young man is innocent of all charges. I dont care if he is a Commander, I dont want an innocent young man to go to prison because he is good at his job.

Now if he is guilty I hope he gets a fair punishment ......... but years in jail is to much for pointing a gun and not hurting anyone.

wow...zrinkill, is that really you???...lol I really dont know what to say, my world is upside down right now. I definately argee with you, I am impressed, and a bit scared.

 

[zrinkill]

Dang it Hoo I thought we made a deal ...........

 

[zrinkill]

Seriously though I am just tired of this crap ........ if the boy is really a gang banging thug he needs to be punished ...... if he is innocent or just defending his property then he needs to be left alone.

Picking on you Commander trolls is one thing ...... but we are talking about a young mans life here. He has parents who really dont care what colors he is wearing on Sunday.

Like I said I hope the kids innocent.

 

[KINGBRICE_28]

True......true......From his perspective it would suck even more.....since an NFL players career is only what, like 3 years average....his may be longer but you do take away his ability to make the most out of himself by keeping him off the field in his prime......

Would be sad if he went, celebs' don't need special attention they just need equal punishment......$$$ is the most important thing in his life take that........Taking him off the field would be taking his spirit.....

 

[Reality]

but years in jail is to much for pointing a gun and not hurting anyone.

.. then I suggest you try to convince the Florida state government to change their laws.

I don't have any opinion of Sean's guilt or innocence but the laws are tougher in Florida for a reason .. the crimes that were being committed led to tougher law being enacted. Not to mention, crimes committed with guns end with the victims dying more often than when crimes are commited without guns.

That being said, given the questionable credibilty of the "witnesses" or supposed "victims" in the case against Sean, you can't help but wonder how trustworthy they are.

I know in some states, you are actually allowed to shoot at people who attempt to steal your vehicle (it is considered an extension of your home) and in other states, you can shoot someone who you "think" is a threat to you.

I agree, pointing a gun without firing shouldn't carry a penalty of several years in prison, but it shouldn't be taken lightly either. Unless your life is in danger, you should contact the police and let them handle it.

In this case, it seems that Sean let his temper get the best of him. We all suffer from this at some point but the difference is that most of us never cross that line and on that day, Sean probably did.

Either way, there have been too many delays and credibility attacks at this point to expect a guilty plea for anything worse than a misdemeanor.

-Reality

 

[KINGBRICE_28]

Isn't FL's 10-20-life, point-shoot-kill ?

 

[menace]

Not really, in the final analysis I don't give a rat's patootie if he skates or gets send to the slammer... oh, I'll be AMUSED if he gets convicted, but only at the thought of all these Skins homers having their hopes dashed...

I just like a good argument, and see immense holes in the bluster and bravado masquerading as arguments from those "homer-trolls", as you call them... so I figured I'd lay out a calm, unemotional argument in rebuttal, and see how they deal with it...

If I do say so myself, I think I did a pretty darned good job of stating my case...

But if there was ANYTHING else interesting to talk about, I'd be talking about that; if this was two weeks later, my entire attention would be focused on the draft, and the homer-trolls could run off at the mouth all they wanted, 'cause I wouldn't even be in here to hear their bleating... LOL...



Actually, if he gets off the hook, I hope he grows the <bleep> up... it's long past time for him to do so...

It is funny to hear cowboy fans say that they don't care if Sean Taylor goes to jail or not. YOU ALL KNOW YOU WANT TAYLOR TO GO TO JAIL. Hell, if the boys' had a safety who had the same skills as Sean does, I would want him to go to jail too. The fact is, Sean Taylor IS NOT going to jail.

There have been too many delays in this case, Grieco was using it for self-promotion and dropped out, and don't you Cowboy fans read enough to understand that Sean Taylor went looking for his STOLEN atvs from the people who STOLE them. Add that on to the fact that the "victims" have been arrested before and after the incident. Come on, even a Cowboy fan should look at this realistically, SEAN TAYLOR IS NOT GOING TO JAIL. Maybe a little community service and some fines, that is all.

I am in no way saying that Sean Taylor is innocent. But what I am saying is that all this talk of Sean Taylor going to jail for years is nonsense. The case is just too weak.

 

[silverbear]

It is funny to hear cowboy fans say that they don't care if Sean Taylor goes to jail or not. YOU ALL KNOW YOU WANT TAYLOR TO GO TO JAIL.

I only want that if he's guilty... unlike you, I do not live in "fear" of some player who happens to be talented... I always figure it the Cowboys are good enough, they can handle good players, and a win with those good players in the lineup is somewhat sweeter than one without them... and if they're not good enough to deal with those talented players, then they deserve to lose...

As Ric Flair is famous for saying, "to be the best, you've gotta beat the best"... in my long history as a Cowboys fan, the sweetest wins against the Skins were those that came when they were really good...

Maybe you dream of having the opponents' best players injured when they face the Skins, but to me that marks you as kind of a candya$$ (hope I don't get in trouble with the mods for that one, it seemed to be the only word that fits the situation)...

I say, hit me with your best shot-- fire away... LOL...

The fact is, Sean Taylor IS NOT going to jail.

The fact is, you don't have the first clue what the FACTS of this case are, and by stating such a thing categorically, you make yourself look real foolish...

You COULD choose to say that in your opinion, there are problems with the state's case, making it UNLIKELY that Sean will be convicted, and you might have a point (though my rebuttal will be consistent with what it has been all along, that none of us knows what the state has up their sleeves)... you could go on to point out the extra difficulty involved in getting a conviction when the defendant is an athlete/celebrity, and all of us would have to nod our heads in agreement, and that the celebrity angle makes it even more unlikely that the state will be able to secure a conviction, and again, you might well have a point... indeed, I have argued as much my own self...

But your arrogant/ignorant, nonequivocal assertion that he WILL get off is not rooted in fact, it's rooted in OPINION, and in no small measure in your DESIRE that this will happen... and of course, in stating that, you have made no effort whatsoever to address ANY of the logical arguments I laid out in the first post of this thread...

If your argument was really as solid and undeniable as you'd have us believe, you'd be able to shred the arguments I laid out... your failure to even try to do so is tacit admission that my arguments are indeed logical and rational, and that by extension is an indictment of your opinionated, lacking anything factual, argument...

I'm not impressed with your self-assurance, backed as it is by absolutely NOTHING...

There have been too many delays in this case,

Most of which were requested by the DEFENSE, homer... the early ones were designed to make sure the case didn't come to trial during the course of last season, ensuring that Sean would be available for all 16 games... clearly, these delays (which really aren't all that unusual in a criminal case) don't tell us anything at all about the merits of the case... one was at the COURT'S behest, with the Easter holidays and some kind of court holiday scheduled... this tells us nothing about the merits of the case... and the last one, which WAS at the state's request, came because once Grieco resigned, the state needed to appoint another prosecutor and get him up to speed... again, this tells us nothing about the merits of the case...

Grieco was using it for self-promotion and dropped out,

An embarrassment for that moron, but again, utterly irrelevant to the merits of the case...

and don't you Cowboy fans read enough to understand that Sean Taylor went looking for his STOLEN atvs from the people who STOLE them.

The people that the defense CLAIMS stole them... given that none of them has been CHARGED with that particular crime, that won't constitute much of a defense...

Particularly not when you consider that even if what you say is absolutely and provably true (it certainly isn't the latter, or they'd be under indictment for the crime, just like Sean is for his alleged crime), he STILL can't go after them with a freakin' GUN... that's against the law, homer...

Add that on to the fact that the "victims" have been arrested before and after the incident.

You're just buying what the defense is telling you, without bothering to wait for the facts, obviously because you desperately WANT to believe your boy is innocent... ... you don't even know who the accusers ARE, so you can't say with any certainty that the defense is telling the truth about that... and you certainly don't know that ALL of them have arrests record... perhaps SOME of them do, but not ALL of them... indeed, given that Taylor's lawyers characterized them as a group who are "either in jail, going to jail, and SHOULD BE in jail" it can be logically inferred that some of them are NOT in jail, or going to jail... if they were all in that boat, there would be no need for the "should be in jail" part of that quote...

Lawyers tend to value semantic precision, and say exactly what they mean...

I certainly expect that the defense will do what they can in court to impeach the credibility of the witnesses, that's a standard defense tactic and absolutely critical in a case like this... but again, you simply don't know what kind of case the state has, and I have laid out logical arguments in the first post of this thread why a THINKING man (as opposed to a homer desperate to get a football player for his favorite team off) would have to wonder if the state doesn't have JUST a little more than the defense is claiming...

Why would Taylor even CONSIDER pleading to a misdemeanor, if all the state has is the word of a bunch of criminals??

Why would the state pursue this case, if all they have is the word of a bunch of criminals?? As professional trial lawyers, surely they'd know that their chance of winning a case in that situation is all but nonexistent...

These are all questions you have failed to address, because you clearly don't WANT to ask yourself those questions... for all your bluster, you have brought nothing factual to this debate... lots of heat, but no light whatsoever...

Come on, even a Cowboy fan should look at this realistically,

As I said in the title to this thread, I laid out a LOGICAL case... a case you haven't even TRIED to rebut with logic of your own... indeed, you have brought nothing logical to support your obviously biased opinions... IOW, it's YOU who are not looking at this case "realistically"...

SEAN TAYLOR IS NOT GOING TO JAIL. Maybe a little community service and some fines, that is all.

Final evidence that you don't know what you're talking about; he can be found innocent, in which case he walks out of court with no repercussions whatsoever;no community service, no fines... but given that he refused the state's offer to plead to a lesser crime that would require no jail time, by Florida law, if he is found guilty, he MUST serve a MINIMUM of 3 years on each charge... there's just no way around that... no community service, no fines; that's not on the table any more...

The way you can't grasp this simple fact-- which is not subject to debate, it is the plain and simple truth, demonstrates that your grasp of the facts of this case are extremely shaky... as a result, youre arguments are considerably less than compelling... you should hope that Sean's attorneys have more than you've brought to this debate...

I am in no way saying that Sean Taylor is innocent. But what I am saying is that all this talk of Sean Taylor going to jail for years is nonsense. The case is just too weak.

Said the homer who clearly doesn't know what the case is... all you know is what you've read in the Washington Post, and all you're getting from them is one side of the story-- Sean's... the state has not been tipping their hand in the media... of course, the way the defense is trying the case in the media suggests that they're not that confident of the strength of their own case, no matter what Taylor's lawyer says for public consumption-- actions speak louder than words here...

That's why they have trials, homer, so that BOTH sides can tell their story, and a (hopefully) fair and impartial jury can decide the truth of the matter... this would clearly exclude you, in spite of only have one side of the story, you're already ready to pronounce the guy innocent...

Me, I don't know which side to believe at this point, and have not staked out a position on that subject... I have carefully avoided the word "victims", which conveys an assumption that they WERE victimized, instead calling them "accusers", and when I refer to Taylor's ALLEGED crime, I'm careful to use the word "alleged"...

That's because I'm in the exact same boat you are (though you apparently don't recognize that you're in the boat at all), I don't know ALL THE FACTS... as a result, I have limited myself to shredding the homeristic takes of Skins fans like yourself...

I've just made some logical assumptions that the state has a little more than the defense is claiming, and laid out the reasons why I'm assuming that... whether they have enough to meet their burden of proof, especially with the defendant being an athlete/celebrity, I have no idea... knowing the realities of the judicial system vis a vis such athlete/celebrities, I have enough healthy skepticism that I won't be surprised if he skates on these charges, but unlike you, I'm willing to hear ALL THE FACTS before passing judgement...

Now, if you have anything rational and logical to say in response to what I've just written, I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts... but if all you have is more of this homersitic bravado and bluster, please don't bore me... I'm just not impressed with your debating skills to this point...

 

[KINGBRICE_28]

All that you you didn't quote me once.....

 

[silverbear]

All that you you didn't quote me once.....

I know, and I'm deeply ashamed of myself...

 

[zrinkill]

All that you you didn't quote me once.....

Hey KingBrice, you always jump on me for jumping the trolls that come on here......

My question to you is why dont you take offence at some of the dumb crap trolls like Menace say ....... just read the guys post above here.

"It is funny to hear cowboy fans say that they don't care if Sean Taylor goes to jail or not. YOU ALL KNOW YOU WANT TAYLOR TO GO TO JAIL. Hell, if the boys' had a safety who had the same skills as Sean does, I would want him to go to jail too. The fact is, Sean Taylor IS NOT going to jail."

pathetic

 

[KINGBRICE_28]

Hey KingBrice, you always jump on me for jumping the trolls that come on here......

My question to you is why dont you take offence at some of the dumb crap trolls like Menace say ....... just read the guys post above here.

"It is funny to hear cowboy fans say that they don't care if Sean Taylor goes to jail or not. YOU ALL KNOW YOU WANT TAYLOR TO GO TO JAIL. Hell, if the boys' had a safety who had the same skills as Sean does, I would want him to go to jail too. The fact is, Sean Taylor IS NOT going to jail."

pathetic

I agree......I actually skip over most skins fans posts on this site b/c they are usually flame.........

Trust me I've called out my share of Skins PPL here.......I've been raped before with pm's because of it........Some think I'm a "fence rider" but I like being on of the few links holding our sites together that isn't hatered for the other team.......

I think this site has 4 or 5 ES posters here.....you'll never see them flame but if you search the day after Monday night football and they'll be 50 pages of Spam.....

You'll see......Someone will say something and get pwnt by me eventually.........It's kinda funny seeing someone's reaction because they think I'm on their side........and I am...... until they troll.......

 

[zrinkill]

It's kinda funny seeing someone's reaction because they think I'm on their side........and I am...... until they troll.......

Good man .....

 

[videre]

My opinion (and I'm trying to stay as un-troll-like as I can) is no one can know what is going to happen since none of us have enough information on the case to say Taylor definitely is/isn't going to jail.

As for what I personally hope? I hope he's is really and truly innocent and is found as such. However, if he is guilty then I hope he doesn't get off just because of his name and money and receives a fair punishment. 9 years in jail (considering his crime) seems an awful harsh thing to wish on some one because of the football team he plays on though, guys...

 

[zrinkill]

Well that post was not trolling .....

And I agree that I hope the kid is innocent and if he isnt that 9 years is WAYYYYYY to long for "waving a gun around"

I think the kid will get of with probation ....... which is a good thing.