Listening to BTB and Locked on Cowboys

[Irvin88_4life]

Im not the guy claiming that I did ‘bro’!

Sorry, I misunderstood your reply but I get what you're saying now. My fault

 

[Stash]

Says the guy that jumps on other’s opinions. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel.

Yeah. You go ahead and project your faults and failures onto others. Zero personal accountability. All too common.

 

[Stash]

Sorry, I misunderstood your reply but I get what you're saying now. My fault

No problem. Thanks for the correction.

 

[BourbonBalz]

Yeah. You go ahead and project your faults and failures onto others. Zero personal accountability. All too common.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

I keep seeing the access to medicals, interviews etc. You don’t think a guy who does evaluations year round can’t ask the coaches and players questions? I mean what you just stated basically does away with any need to do evaluations or boards at all 2-7 because no one knows “when are where they will be drafted.” Let’s just pick X guy who might be an UDFA in the 2nd..why not? That’s what you are trying to say. It’s ridiculous. You know that when a kid wants to come out early, many times they get an evaluation to see where they would be picked in case they may need another year of college. So where someone is slotted has value. No one is saying the kid can’t be good. But value exists for a reason in the draft.

BTW, I’m not arguing against the kid, just how we placed value

It's not complicated. Teams don't know where players will get drafted, they however put a board together in an order of who they want the most or think is the best player. Not every team has the same order or same board. It's not universal.

I don't care what someone ask players or coaches, you think they give correct information. Not only that unless someone is in the war room they don't have a clue what that team really thinks.

 

[Miller]

It's not complicated. Teams don't know where players will get drafted, they however put a board together in an order of who they want the most or think is the best player. Not every team has the same order or same board. It's not universal.

I don't care what someone ask players or coaches, you think they give correct information. Not only that unless someone is in the war room they don't have a clue what that team really thinks.

I really don’t know what your arguing. Why don’t you care? You acted like interviews and medicals were only accessible by a few. You think a player is going to spill his guts to a future employer? No. You keep saying that everyone has different boards and that is correct and it’s correct they all covet different types of players but when a guy grades out universally as a late round pick it is usually based on talent....lack of certain traits in college, speed etc. In this case the kid is new to the position, he’s not quick twitch, he struggled to stay in front of WRs. He’s talented but raw. A majority of people had him as a 7th rounder. Again these guys do this for a living and when there is a near consensus it makes it interesting. If you want to say he fits our scheme, his attributes make him very high ceiling etc I’m fine with that. I hope he turns into Richard Sherman. But on value alone in the 3rd round you could have gotten someone to help you in another position and still probably have gotten him in the 5th or 6th if you wanted him that badly. You’re throwing out “well we don’t know what grades other teams had on him” but we do know what his strengths snd weaknesses are and how they grade out. Teams read the same stuff snd see the same stuff. Overall we want the same thing though..him to work out

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

You don’t know that. There may have been other teams that had him ranked higher than the BSPN talking heads casual fans seem to flock to.

It was not just the ESPN Talking heads...it was every draft board I could find.

I have not found ANY that said he was a 3rd round prospect.

Maybe they are out there...but I have not seen them and I looked a good deal.

 

[Rockport]

It was not just the ESPN Talking heads...it was every draft board I could find.

I have not found ANY that said he was a 3rd round prospect.

Maybe they are out there...but I have not seen them and I looked a good deal.

Done my media types. And many of them get their initial takes from those BSPN yahoos.

 

[HungryLion]

scranton ? thats my backyard ! lol

 

[kumizi]

The biggest think I take away from this is that while Cox may have been higher on their board, they obviously had the CB rated near that spot. Cox was a 2nd rounder on their board so the CB probably was a 3rd. So he was not a huge reach according to them. They didn't reach down to the 5th or 6th round on their board.so all we can do is hope they were right on the kid.

How can that possibly be your biggest takeaway?

The scouts spent a year making the board and our front office let the coordinator who has been here a month make the pick instead.

It’s bad process even if the results work out and in the Cowboys case, the results are usually bad too.

 

[ESisback]

I highly doubt that.

Perception. Big Mike seems like a laid back company man, while Quinn seems to be the mad scientist guru (At least until the defense loses us a game or two).

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

There is only one part of that post that might be false...Jerry Jones saying they took him for the 5th year option. I don't remember that so I cannot say he did.

With that said.

This is the draft that the scouts/coaching staff bungled it. The scouts had Shariff Floyd 5th over all on our board but the coaches said that he was not the type of DT they wanted for the scheme.
They also said after trading down that they had around 5 Olinemen they liked but they were all drafted except for Frederick.
They personally viewed him as a second round pick. They had 19 players rated as first round, he was the 22nd player in their rankings.
Many Draft publications, fans and others ripped them for the pick...some for Just the draft room screw in communication up with Floyd, others because they thought he was a 2-3 rounder...once again even Dallas on their own boards had him as a second rounder.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

I really don’t know what your arguing. Why don’t you care? You acted like interviews and medicals were only accessible by a few. You think a player is going to spill his guts to a future employer? No. You keep saying that everyone has different boards and that is correct and it’s correct they all covet different types of players but when a guy grades out universally as a late round pick it is usually based on talent....lack of certain traits in college, speed etc. In this case the kid is new to the position, he’s not quick twitch, he struggled to stay in front of WRs. He’s talented but raw. A majority of people had him as a 7th rounder. Again these guys do this for a living and when there is a near consensus it makes it interesting. If you want to say he fits our scheme, his attributes make him very high ceiling etc I’m fine with that. I hope he turns into Richard Sherman. But on value alone in the 3rd round you could have gotten someone to help you in another position and still probably have gotten him in the 5th or 6th if you wanted him that badly. You’re throwing out “well we don’t know what grades other teams had on him” but we do know what his strengths snd weaknesses are and how they grade out. Teams read the same stuff snd see the same stuff. Overall we want the same thing though..him to work out

You can tell a ton by a player in an interview. You can see how they process schemes and other things. If you really thing the public has the same access that NFL teams have you are fooling yourself. If it was just based on film then anybody could pick every pick right but that's not the case cause teams don't draft that way. Again you don't know where he would have been available or where Dallas/Quinn had him ranked so stop acting like you do cause someone that isn't in war rooms told you so.

By the way I'm not responding anymore to this conversation. Good day

 

[DoctorChicken]

What are the odds they had a few drinks and Jerry was like "let the new guy make a pick."

That corner may turn out awesome but they were drafting against themselves.


Brandon Browner was the other linebacker they were looking at.. I haven't watched him.. Any opinions? We got the better player in JAbril Cox, right?

Both are good players but Cox is better in coverage and forces turnovers.

OTOH, Cox is older and I generally prefer the younger prospect if there’s not much difference between them. Cox has better instincts IMO as well.

 

[Miller]

Done my media types. And many of them get their initial takes from those BSPN yahoos.

This is simply in your head. There are guys out there that do more evaluations than scouts. I’ve explained this 10 times now and it’s strange that people still throw around that media bs. There is a cottage industry of guys that are way beyond Mel Kiper and who just watch film all the time making these evaluations. Your statement is plain false. I’ve brought him up many times but guys like Greg Cosell and others produce shows for the NFL Network that are all based on film work and scouts actually come to them.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Done my media types. And many of them get their initial takes from those BSPN yahoos.

Find me one that had him in the third round.
I'll wait for you to prove me wrong on this one.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

There is only one part of that post that might be false...Jerry Jones saying they took him for the 5th year option. I don't remember that so I cannot say he did.

With that said.

This is the draft that the scouts/coaching staff bungled it. The scouts had Shariff Floyd 5th over all on our board but the coaches said that he was not the type of DT they wanted for the scheme.
They also said after trading down that they had around 5 Olinemen they liked but they were all drafted except for Frederick.
They personally viewed him as a second round pick. They had 19 players rated as first round, he was the 22nd player in their rankings.
Many Draft publications, fans and others ripped them for the pick...some for Just the draft room screw in communication up with Floyd, others because they thought he was a 2-3 rounder...once again even Dallas on their own boards had him as a second rounder.

So now their careers are done who was right. The ones that said to draft Floyd or Dallas for drafting Frederick.....

 

[CATCH17]

Both are good players but Cox is better in coverage and forces turnovers.

OTOH, Cox is older and I generally prefer the younger prospect if there’s not much difference between them. Cox has better instincts IMO as well.

Yeah.. If we get 4 solid years out of Cox and we move on i'll be happy. His age I kinda look at as a good thing because I don't think we will have long term plans for him anyways.

 

[Miller]

You can tell a ton by a player in an interview. You can see how they process schemes and other things. If you really thing the public has the same access that NFL teams have you are fooling yourself. If it was just based on film then anybody could pick every pick right but that's not the case cause teams don't draft that way. Again you don't know where he would have been available or where Dallas/Quinn had him ranked so stop acting like you do cause someone that isn't in war rooms told you so.

By the way I'm not responding anymore to this conversation. Good day

Have a great one! Always great to end it on throwing out giant generalizations that make no point except “I’m going to take my ball and go home.” I’ll file away that you think draft analysis and value means nothing.

 

[Miller]

It was not just the ESPN Talking heads...it was every draft board I could find.

I have not found ANY that said he was a 3rd round prospect.

Maybe they are out there...but I have not seen them and I looked a good deal.

There isn’t but you’ll get the “media” excuse even though there are many guys who dedicate their careers to watching these guys. I’m with you!