Looking back, did we overrate the 2012-14 drafts?

[kevm3]

The problem isn't talent. It's coaching.

 

[tyke1doe]

Or more like most fans think every pick should work out and be a pro bowl player.
Easy to second guess picks around us. How many other teams fans are saying, dang, we could have had Martin, or Frederick, or Jones, or Dez......

Romo gets injured twice and the season is over, so every player and draft will now be questioned.
Going to be an extremely long off season, starting. Now.
I myself will look at what needs to be done, not what could have been.

Yep. I'm moving on to the draft and the possibility to draft one of the top players in the country.

 

[tyke1doe]

Sorry, you lost me at "Escobar is a great TE."

 

[SultanOfSix]

No. We just devalue good coaching that can put the players we draft in optimal positions to succeed.

 

[Aven8]

Will Mcclay is just another guy that jerry is "comfortable" working with. In other words, he agrees with Jerry and Stephen.

I actually think McClays strength is pro personnel on the cheap. He is good at finding players like that, but the draft isn't his strength.

 

[black label]

Hitchens, OK player but when you look at the best defenses in the league they are fast and they are physical. We don't have that elite speed in our front 7, you got a guy in Telvin Smith with 4.4 speed who would have changed the complex of this defense. Anyone that doesnt get to see many Jags games, go check his stats, he's going to shatter his tackle number from last year.

Safety - two 4th rd picks, two project players from non-reputable programs. You would think they would have learned from the AOA experiment.

It's hard to improve when you aren't drafting quality players at each level of the defense

This is where you would think they would have learned there lesson. We are complete garbage at this position to the point
when Wilcox or Heath are out there its like playing a man down.

 

[Star Guard_31]

What do you guys think? Besides the 1st round, has drafting really improved around here? Is it too much to ask for more from our 2nd and 3rd day picks or this about consistent with the rest of the league? Interested in the board's thoughts.

2012:

• Morris Claiborne - one of the worst picks in franchise history. Kuechly, Poe, Gilmore, Cox drafted after him.
• Tyrone Crawford - good player, jumped the gun on a new contract but he's starting to wake up. 4 sacks on the season.
• Kyle Wilber - JAG
• Matt Johnson
• Danny Coale
• James Hanna - JAG
• Caleb McSurdy - drafted him instead of taking a flyer on Vontaze Burfict

2013:

• Travis Frederick - starter, pro-bowl
• Gavin Escobar - 26 catches in 3 yrs. wasted pick trying to copy the Patriots
• Terrance Williams - marginal #2 receiver, won't get a 2nd contract
• J.J. Wilcox - the project hasn't worked
• B. W. Webb - off the team
• Joseph Randle - jail
• DeVonte Holloman - retired

2014:

• Zack Martin - starter, pro-bowl
• Demarcus Lawrence - panthers got a better player at the same position (Kony Ealy) w/out having to trade up.
• Anthony Hitchens - starter who really should be a back up. I begged for Telvin Smith at this spot. He was drafted 30 spots after Hitchens and has more sacks, FF, int, and double career tackles.
• Devin Street - invisible
• Ben Gardner
• Will Smith
• Ahmad Dixon
• Ken Bishop
• Terrance Mitchell

@AsthmaField @Risen Star @RS12

I remember Stephen Jomes discussing the trade up for DeMarcus Lawrence after the draft, saying if they were unable to move up they would have taken Kony Ealy, but Marinelli told them Lawrence was the last "true RDE" in the draft so they made the move. Marinelli was said to have thought that Ealy was more of a run stopper. I'd be pretty happy with that run stopper right about now.

 

[Risen Star]

The two trade ups for Claiborne and D-law sting. When you look at the players drafted after Claiborne, you just want to jump off a bridge.

That being said, the thing that really sticks out to me is the three picks after Frederick in 2013. After making that trade down and picking up Frederick, the Cowboys had a chance to really run that draft. I remember Bennie Logan was so popular on here with you and the other Draft Zone guys. They had an opportunity to add a nasty player in the trenches, instead we take the finesse pick with Escobar. Same thing with Terron Armstead....he was another popular guy on here at the time.

Who is a personnel guy you'd like here in Dallas instead of McClay? I've never felt comfortable with McClay's relationship with Jerry since he pretty much gave him control of his toy arena league team.

Oh, I don't want a new personnel assistant to answer to frick and frack. I want to replace those two.

I can not evaluate anyone in this organization as long as those two are at the top of the football operations. So I'm as indifferent to replacing McClay as I am Garrett. It's a cosmetic thing. It doesn't address the real issue so it will not change anything.

 

[Risen Star]

I remember Stephen Jomes discussing the trade up for DeMarcus Lawrence after the draft, saying if they were unable to move up they would have taken Kony Ealy, but Marinelli told them Lawrence was the last "true RDE" in the draft so they made the move. Marinelli was said to have thought that Ealy was more of a run stopper. I'd be pretty happy with that run stopper right about now.

Did I miss the memo that Lawrence is a bust? I still have hopes for him.

 

[basstapp]

Sorry, you lost me at "Escobar is a great TE."

He can be a great TV- he has all the tools and tends to make plays when he has the opportunities. He is a mismanaged TE just like all of our other ones that were on the team

 

[RS12]

The problem isn't talent. It's coaching.

Is the talent over rated? yes. Is the coaching over rated? grossly

 

[Blackspider214]

We definitely overrated this offensive line, that's for sure. They have regressed big time.

 

[Clove]

I was going to do something similar soon and break down recent drafts.

The answer is no, @Zordon. Our drafts haven't really improved. Which is why I chuckle at the Will McClay love around here.

Late round picks are longer odds but over a three year period you need to find contributors there. The Cowboys have essentially gotten nothing after the 4th round those years. There's a very good chance the same will be true with this year's crop of rookies.

They say day 3 of the draft is for the scouts. It's where they make a living finding gems still on the board. Guys who may not be the prototype you're looking for but a perfect fit for your roster and scheme. The later you go into the draft the harder it is to evaluate the talent. It's a bigger projection. It's a real test of the personnel guys across the league. The Cowboys basically strike out on day 3 every year. I'll let you figure out why that is.

I think my feelings on the 2012 draft are well stated. Along with FA that year, it was one of the worst offseasons in team history (though celebrated by many at the time). A complete waste of huge resources and it really set the team back. Whenever I want to feel good about Garrett I think back to that offseason. Was he okay with these decisions? Because if he was he doesn't have a clue of what he's doing either. The philosophy was flawed. Even with proper evaluation of the talent.

The Pats are always finding players late. Maybe we should hire guys off of their staff and I'm actually being serious about that.

 

[knightrider94]

The Pats are always finding players late. Maybe we should hire guys off of their staff and I'm actually being serious about that.

The Cowboys won't do it. Jerry has to be comfortable.

 

[KingintheNorth]

2015's draft looks to be a pretty strong one though. Byron Jones may already be our best DB behind Scandrick, I think Collins has made a strong first impression, and the injury makes Gregory tough to evaluate, but he's a promising talent.

Really? Chaz Green? Damien Wilson ? Ryan Russell?

Randy Gregory being available at 60 isn't skill. La'el Collins isn't skill, although props deserved for signing him first chance they got.

Jerry Jones has proven time and time again that he can not run a war room and his attempts to trade up and down to look like his hero Jimmy Johnson has failed.

If you look, there were Cowboys fans who applauded the 2009 draft.

The reality is a GM who's livelihood isn't tied to the success of the players he acquires is dangerous in sports.

 

[Risen Star]

The Pats are always finding players late. Maybe we should hire guys off of their staff and I'm actually being serious about that.

In trying to convince myself of how the Cowboys could compete while this lunatic owns the team I thought maybe they could at least spend lavishly on the best scouts. Just pick them off of other staffs. There is no cap for that. At the very least try to assemble an all star scouting department to listen to.

He doesn't even do that.

 

[Risen Star]

There is a real arrogance to our front office. You'd think two decades of failure would humble a man. Not those two. They talk as if they're experts and we should all shut up and listen to their brilliance.

 

[HeavyBarrel]

Am I crazy for wanting to take the BETTER football player regardless of scheme??????

 

[KingintheNorth]

What should be happening with deep-pockets Jerry as the owner = There's no salary cap for NFL coaches or scouts.

What is happening with Jerry as the owner = There's also no one to challenge you or get in your way when you surround yourself with yes men.

 

[Star Guard_31]

Did I miss the memo that Lawrence is a bust? I still have hopes for him.

Not a bust, but it's not unfair to say so far he's been another JAG. Every winning team has plenty of guys like that, but you should never give up extra picks for JAGs. Especially not when there are comparable players available for less.