Looking back, did we overrate the 2012-14 drafts?

[Risen Star]

Not a bust, but it's not unfair to say so far he's been another JAG. Every winning team has plenty of guys like that, but you should never give up extra picks for JAGs. Especially not when there are comparable players available for less.

Are you trying to give a lesson here?

Is it fair to judge a pass rusher in what is essentially his rookie season in the NFL?

 

[Risen Star]

No. We just devalue good coaching that can put the players we draft in optimal positions to succeed.

We failed to put Brandon Weeden in the optimal position.

Which would be out in the parking lot somewhere.

 

[Zordon]

We failed to put Brandon Weeden in the optimal position.

Which would be out in the parking lot somewhere.

lmao

 

[SultanOfSix]

We failed to put Brandon Weeden in the optimal position.

Which would be out in the parking lot somewhere.

Yeah, nice job by the red headed stepchild who went to bat for him.

Must have been blinded by the hair color.

 

[ThreeandOut]

I remember Stephen Jomes discussing the trade up for DeMarcus Lawrence after the draft, saying if they were unable to move up they would have taken Kony Ealy, but Marinelli told them Lawrence was the last "true RDE" in the draft so they made the move. Marinelli was said to have thought that Ealy was more of a run stopper. I'd be pretty happy with that run stopper right about now.

It's really the subsequent events that have made this trade up more questionable. As you've noted, the trade up for Lawrence was made to get that true RDE, the more valued position in the Marinelli defense. They've since added two RDE's (Hardy and Gregory), so Lawrence was moved to the less valuable LDE position. In hindsight, they could have stayed put to get the LDE (Ealy). They would have then kept their 3rd round pick and taken Trai Turner, who they reportedly were trying to move back into the 3rd round to select.

 

[Maggito]

Anyone else get a kick out of hearing, the Cowboys would have picked X player had they stood pat, and then that option looking better in the future?

 

[darthseinfeld]

I was going to do something similar soon and break down recent drafts.

The answer is no, @Zordon. Our drafts haven't really improved. Which is why I chuckle at the Will McClay love around here.

Late round picks are longer odds but over a three year period you need to find contributors there. The Cowboys have essentially gotten nothing after the 4th round those years. There's a very good chance the same will be true with this year's crop of rookies.

They say day 3 of the draft is for the scouts. It's where they make a living finding gems still on the board. Guys who may not be the prototype you're looking for but a perfect fit for your roster and scheme. The later you go into the draft the harder it is to evaluate the talent. It's a bigger projection. It's a real test of the personnel guys across the league. The Cowboys basically strike out on day 3 every year. I'll let you figure out why that is.

I think my feelings on the 2012 draft are well stated. Along with FA that year, it was one of the worst offseasons in team history (though celebrated by many at the time). A complete waste of huge resources and it really set the team back. Whenever I want to feel good about Garrett I think back to that offseason. Was he okay with these decisions? Because if he was he doesn't have a clue of what he's doing either. The philosophy was flawed. Even with proper evaluation of the talent.

I Cosby Voice any Will McClay praise in my head, and tack on Jello Pudding Pops at the end

True story

 

[CyberB0b]

Top picks aren't bad. Drafting of late isn't the issue.

I think it has contributed to the lack of depth, for sure.

 

[Zordon]

Good and fair post. Kudos.

I'm not sure if you could make that determination without having something to compare our drafts to.

If you are up to it, gather the drafts with other teams in our division for the same time period and then we can truly make a more accurate/educated determination whether not our drafting had improved. Also, for fun throw in the pats and the panthers as well.

When I get time I'll look at more teams. Here is the Panthers...impressive.

2013:

1st rd- Star Lotulelei - starter DT
2nd rd - Kawann Short - starter DT
5th rd - A.J. Klie- backup LB

2014:

1st rd - Kelvin Benjamin - top WR
2nd rd- Kony Ealy - starting DE
3rd rd - Trai Turner - starting guard
4th rd- Tre Boston - backup SS
5th rd- Bene Benwikere - backup CB

 

[Star Guard_31]

Anyone else get a kick out of hearing, the Cowboys would have picked X player had they stood pat, and then that option looking better in the future?

If you're referring to Threeandout's comment, it's been widely reported that the Cowboys were targeting Turner in the third round of the 2014 draft. If I'm not mistaken, the Cowboys actually tried to trade back into the third to get Turner even after surrendering picks to move up to draft Lawrence. In a post draft interview Jerry Jones mentioned trying to trade back into the third for an interior lineman that was widely assumed to be Trai Turner.

 

[darthseinfeld]

I was going to do something similar soon and break down recent drafts.

The answer is no, @Zordon. Our drafts haven't really improved. Which is why I chuckle at the Will McClay love around here.

Late round picks are longer odds but over a three year period you need to find contributors there. The Cowboys have essentially gotten nothing after the 4th round those years. There's a very good chance the same will be true with this year's crop of rookies.

They say day 3 of the draft is for the scouts. It's where they make a living finding gems still on the board. Guys who may not be the prototype you're looking for but a perfect fit for your roster and scheme. The later you go into the draft the harder it is to evaluate the talent. It's a bigger projection. It's a real test of the personnel guys across the league. The Cowboys basically strike out on day 3 every year. I'll let you figure out why that is.

I think my feelings on the 2012 draft are well stated. Along with FA that year, it was one of the worst offseasons in team history (though celebrated by many at the time). A complete waste of huge resources and it really set the team back. Whenever I want to feel good about Garrett I think back to that offseason. Was he okay with these decisions? Because if he was he doesn't have a clue of what he's doing either. The philosophy was flawed. Even with proper evaluation of the talent.

Carr and Claiborne were poor moves but the worst move was to go Tampa 2 the year after they allotted all those resourses to man cornerbacks, effectively negating any positive effect they may have had on defense and helping to turn both players into albatross's. And then to make matters worse, instead of going out and finding Cover 2 CB's they turn a defensive system that needs zone coverage to be effective into a man mashup.

To add to your point about finding players to fit a system late, the 2014 draft was a perfect example of how the scouting department has no clue about a Tampa 2 scheme. Ben Gardener, Ken Bishop, and the forgetable safety we added are polar opposites of the type of players you run a Tampa 2 with. 2 slow 2 gap players for a scheme needing 4 1 gap players to run effectively and a box safety to play in a 2 deep zone

 

[CF74]

What do you guys think? Besides the 1st round, has drafting really improved around here? Is it too much to ask for more from our 2nd and 3rd day picks or this about consistent with the rest of the league? Interested in the board's thoughts.

2012:

• Morris Claiborne - one of the worst picks in franchise history. Kuechly, Poe, Gilmore, Cox drafted after him.
• Tyrone Crawford - good player, jumped the gun on a new contract but he's starting to wake up. 4 sacks on the season.
• Kyle Wilber - JAG
• Matt Johnson
• Danny Coale
• James Hanna - JAG
• Caleb McSurdy - drafted him instead of taking a flyer on Vontaze Burfict

2013:

• Travis Frederick - starter, pro-bowl
• Gavin Escobar - 26 catches in 3 yrs. wasted pick trying to copy the Patriots
• Terrance Williams - marginal #2 receiver, won't get a 2nd contract
• J.J. Wilcox - the project hasn't worked
• B. W. Webb - off the team
• Joseph Randle - jail
• DeVonte Holloman - retired

2014:

• Zack Martin - starter, pro-bowl
• Demarcus Lawrence - panthers got a better player at the same position (Kony Ealy) w/out having to trade up.
• Anthony Hitchens - starter who really should be a back up. I begged for Telvin Smith at this spot. He was drafted 30 spots after Hitchens and has more sacks, FF, int, and double career tackles.
• Devin Street - invisible
• Ben Gardner
• Will Smith
• Ahmad Dixon
• Ken Bishop
• Terrance Mitchell

@AsthmaField @Risen Star @RS12

Out of all those picks the one that irked me the most at the time was trading up for an undersized DE (Lawrence.) Still hoping he grows into a beast, so far he's flashed a bit...

 

[Star Guard_31]

Are you trying to give a lesson here?

Is it fair to judge a pass rusher in what is essentially his rookie season in the NFL?

You ask rhetorical questions to distract from the reality of the situation. To date, Lawrence has not justified his price tag. Maybe he will in the future, and I for one hope he does, but so far he hasn't.

It's absolutely fair to judge a pass rusher relative to his peers. Nobody sat there and said it was too soon to recognize Zach Martin as an all-pro after his first season. If it's fair to praise an overachieving young player based on a small sample size than its only reasonable to critique an underachieving player based off of a similar body of work.

 

[Zordon]

Carr and Claiborne were poor moves but the worst move was to go Tampa 2 the year after they allotted all those resourses to man cornerbacks, effectively negating any positive effect they may have had on defense and helping to turn both players into albatross's. And then to make matters worse, instead of going out and finding Cover 2 CB's they turn a defensive system that needs zone coverage to be effective into a man mashup.

To add to your point about finding players to fit a system late, the 2014 draft was a perfect example of how the scouting department has no clue about a Tampa 2 scheme. Ben Gardener, Ken Bishop, and the forgetable safety we added are polar opposites of the type of players you run a Tampa 2 with. 2 slow 2 gap players for a scheme needing 4 1 gap players to run effectively and a box safety to play in a 2 deep zone

I swear your post highlighting the disorganization in the franchise almost makes me want to give up all hope.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

• Joseph Randle - jail

damn...
lol

 

[wileedog]

You can probably look at just about every teams draft in those years and see similar results.

Josh Norman who shut down Dez yesterday was a 5th round pick.

When is the last guy picked past the first day on this team who has had that kind of impact for us?

 

[Risen Star]

You ask rhetorical questions to distract from the reality of the situation. To date, Lawrence has not justified his price tag. Maybe he will in the future, and I for one hope he does, but so far he hasn't.

It's absolutely fair to judge a pass rusher relative to his peers. Nobody sat there and said it was too soon to recognize Zach Martin as an all-pro after his first season. If it's fair to praise an overachieving young player based on a small sample size than its only reasonable to critique an underachieving player based off of a similar body of work.

Saying Zack Martin has been outstanding his rookie year is a little different than souring on a DE who sat out almost all his rookie year and is just now getting his first real action in the NFL.

So, no, You got that wrong. It's not fair. It's fan.

 

[Star Guard_31]

Saying Zack Martin has been outstanding his rookie year is a little different than souring on a DE who sat out almost all his rookie year and is just now getting his first real action in the NFL.

So, no, You got that wrong. It's not fair. It's fan.

1) There's a difference between souring on somebody and saying their impact on the team hasn't matched what it cost to acquire them. Can you honestly say he's exceeded or even met expectations?

2) DeMarcus Lawrence played in 7 regular season and 2 postseason games last year, in addition to 11 games this season. Let's stop talking about him as if he sat on IR his entire rookie season and it's the first month of the 2015 season. He provides a 20 game sample size to draw conclusions from. It should be evaluated.

 

[darthseinfeld]

I swear your post highlighting the disorganization in the franchise almost makes me want to give up all hope.

Im sorry

 

[Hardline]

Josh Norman who shut down Dez yesterday was a 5th round pick.

When is the last guy picked past the first day on this team who has had that kind of impact for us?

We got Tony Romo in free agency. When was the last time most of the NFL got that kind impact for a free agent?