Luepke "going to be a big part of our offense"

big dog cowboy said:
Since when has route running been an issue for him?
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If Vaughn were already good at route running we would have been using him in the slot last year.
I don't expect late round rookie RBs to come into the NFL with NFL route running skills. Generally receivers take a year to two.
 
kskboys said:
And is quicker to the LOS and breaks more tackles.
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Luepke seems like a nice short yardage guy. My recollection is the opposite of yours, though - not quickness to the LOS, but patience and vision to find a seam and get positive yardage. Kind of like a LB finding a seam to get upfield.
 
buybuydandavis said:
If Vaughn were already good at route running we would have been using him in the slot last year.
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Wrong. This has nothing to do with Vaughn and running routes. McCarthy had NO plan for him last year. Vaughn is in a group of players he completely failed with. Just wasted the entire year.

Vaughn, Mazi, Luepke........
 
buybuydandavis said:
Luepke seems like a nice short yardage guy. My recollection is the opposite of yours, though - not quickness to the LOS, but patience and vision to find a seam and get positive yardage. Kind of like a LB finding a seam to get upfield.
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That's a different skillset. It's the burst after having patience and vision that is important. Just running into the backs of you OL isn't going to get you far. Brings back visions of Julius Jones!!!!
 
buybuydandavis said:
If Vaughn were already good at route running we would have been using him in the slot last year.
I don't expect late round rookie RBs to come into the NFL with NFL route running skills. Generally receivers take a year to two.
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Can you really say this about an org known for not using players to the best of their ability? An org that made a NT lose 50 lbs. An org that played a CB at S. Pushed a 3 tech(Cedric Thornton) into the NT slot. Sent the best YAC WR in the NFL (Austin) on a bunch of long routes even though he didn't track well and had questionable hands.

We have a long history of misusing/not using players.
 
kskboys said:
Can you really say this about an org known for not using players to the best of their ability? An org that made a NT lose 50 lbs. An org that played a CB at S. Pushed a 3 tech(Cedric Thornton) into the NT slot. Sent the best YAC WR in the NFL (Austin) on a bunch of long routes even though he didn't track well and had questionable hands.

We have a long history of misusing/not using players.
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You got a point there. That we would fail to use player's skills would not be a surprise.
But still, expecting a 6th round RB to have NFL level route running skills as a rookie is a stretch. The odds are he didn't stroll into the league with them. Beasley took years to make a mark, and he was a WR in college.

As for Miles, the deep balls set up the short balls, and vice versa. He wouldn't have been so successful w/o both. Not a great deep threat, but good enough that they had to respect it, making covering the short passes harder.
The real mistake was putting him it the slot. Didn't have the reaction time or hands for catching the ball in the slot. Wasn't really quick either.
Was decently fast, could break back very hard, and could break a tackle. Made to play wide and do comebacks and ups on a single defender. The defender is in a bind because Miles could break harder than he could, but could run by him if he shaded the short pass too hard.
 
kskboys said:
That's a different skillset. It's the burst after having patience and vision that is important. Just running into the backs of you OL isn't going to get you far. Brings back visions of Julius Jones!!!!
Click to expand...
I'd say seeing and/or setting up the hole in the first place is what's important, but burst and downhill forward lean certainly makes you more effective once you find it.
Though somehow Marcus Allen was very good at short yardage , and he seemed all vision and slipperiness.
Mentioning Jones, another thing he didn't have was forward lean. So upright. He just wasn't that good. Came in fresh the back half of his rookie season, Parcells gave him a lot of carries, and he averaged over 100 yards per game at 4.16 ypc. Nothing to get excited about. But people did.
 
kskboys said:
An org that made a NT lose 50 lbs.
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MM talked about how they wanted him to put weight back on. Now you certainly can point to some sort of dysfunction with him losing that weight in the middle of the season but there is no evidence anyone told him to lose weight.

AFAIK Mazi has not been available to the media.
 
big dog cowboy said:
Wrong. This has nothing to do with Vaughn and running routes. McCarthy had NO plan for him last year. Vaughn is in a group of players he completely failed with. Just wasted the entire year.

Vaughn, Mazi, Luepke........
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Mazi - our defensive OC always seems to just run the defense. Jerry doesn't seem to like a HC to be truly in charge of the whole team. The Mazi debacle seemed like just preferring Hankins in Mazi's proper role, and then needing some warm body at other DT roles. Jerry should have butt in as GM and said "No. You're not ruining my first round draft choice."

With Vaughn, he underwhelmed early as a runner, and we have Turpin and Lamb as motion WRs/RBs. Both those guys are just more useful on the field than Vaughn, especially with Vaughn getting a chance and showing nothing as a runner.

I think they had a plan for Luepke, and then we saw the miscommunication/fumble near the goal line. I think it was worse than a fumble, it was a mental mistake, and those will keep a rookie out of games. Looks they just don't trust him, and with some reason. And the backs we brought in compete more for Luepke's role than tailback.

Speaking of not having a plan, seems to me we've switch to a much more run heavy philosophy with the oline, going big with Beebe and Guyton, and even signing Steele the previous year. But then doing nothing at tailback. How does this make sense?
 
FuzzyLumpkins said:
MM talked about how they wanted him to put weight back on. Now you certainly can point to some sort of dysfunction with him losing that weight in the middle of the season but there is no evidence anyone told him to lose weight.

AFAIK Mazi has not been available to the media.
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But they must have been monitoring his weight and if he's losing weight they don't want him to lose it's their job to stop him. There's no way that weight loss flew under the radar, hence it had to be a *decision*.
 
buybuydandavis said:
You got a point there. That we would fail to use player's skills would not be a surprise.
But still, expecting a 6th round RB to have NFL level route running skills as a rookie is a stretch. The odds are he didn't stroll into the league with them. Beasley took years to make a mark, and he was a WR in college.

As for Miles, the deep balls set up the short balls, and vice versa. He wouldn't have been so successful w/o both. Not a great deep threat, but good enough that they had to respect it, making covering the short passes harder.
The real mistake was putting him it the slot. Didn't have the reaction time or hands for catching the ball in the slot. Wasn't really quick either.
Was decently fast, could break back very hard, and could break a tackle. Made to play wide and do comebacks and ups on a single defender. The defender is in a bind because Miles could break harder than he could, but could run by him if he shaded the short pass too hard.
Click to expand...
I've never seen any WR break harder on a comeback route. It was freaky. And for a guy who lacked lateral agility, it didn't make sense!!!! But man, could that dude run over DB's!!!!
 
buybuydandavis said:
But they must have been monitoring his weight and if he's losing weight they don't want him to lose it's their job to stop him. There's no way that weight loss flew under the radar, hence it had to be a *decision*.
Click to expand...
And if no one noticed, that's even worse. It's Quinn's job to notice.
 
FuzzyLumpkins said:
MM talked about how they wanted him to put weight back on. Now you certainly can point to some sort of dysfunction with him losing that weight in the middle of the season but there is no evidence anyone told him to lose weight.

AFAIK Mazi has not been available to the media.
Click to expand...
As Buybuy said, if he started losing weight on his own accord and the D coaches didn't even notice, that's even worse.
 
buybuydandavis said:
I'd say seeing and/or setting up the hole in the first place is what's important, but burst and downhill forward lean certainly makes you more effective once you find it.
Though somehow Marcus Allen was very good at short yardage , and he seemed all vision and slipperiness.
Mentioning Jones, another thing he didn't have was forward lean. So upright. He just wasn't that good. Came in fresh the back half of his rookie season, Parcells gave him a lot of carries, and he averaged over 100 yards per game at 4.16 ypc. Nothing to get excited about. But people did.
Click to expand...
W/o burst, seeing the hole is pointless. I'd say it's a gotta have both situation.
 
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