LVE - the downside, coverage

[CalPolyTechnique]

Somebody here at CZ posted more details in the past.

PFF contacted me about working for them.

There have been some people that post here that work for them. It's strictly forbidden to admit that you work for them.

If you see somebody at on a message board get really defensive about PFF, they probably work for them.

32 teams, 16 games per week minus the bye week teams, 46 active players per team...

There are about 170 snaps in a game including offense, defense and special teams.

There are 11 players per team per snap.

170 x 11 x 32 = 59,,840 player snaps per week

PFF puts out their grades in less than 24 hours.

The All-22 "film" does not come out until well after they've published their grades.

I don't see how any of what you posted supports the notion that they are comprised of "fans/bloggers" or that it even matters?

I wouldn't imagine doing the grunt work of looking at a bunch of film would be done by highly skilled labor. Like I said, what are you supposing it should be in your mind?

It's motive mongering like accussing Best Buy of simply "hiring people that just like cell phones and texting" or BMW of hiring salesmen that are "just car fans that have a subscription to Motor Trend."

 

[beware_d-ware]

Somebody here at CZ posted more details in the past.

PFF contacted me about working for them.

There have been some people that post here that work for them. It's strictly forbidden to admit that you work for them.

If you see somebody at on a message board get really defensive about PFF, they probably work for them.

32 teams, 16 games per week minus the bye week teams, 46 active players per team...

There are about 170 snaps in a game including offense, defense and special teams.

There are 11 players per team per snap.

170 x 11 x 32 = 59,,840 player snaps per week

PFF puts out their grades in less than 24 hours.

The All-22 "film" does not come out until well after they've published their grades.

Wish I could upvote this 50 times.

60,000 snaps in 24 hours... you just can't have quality control with that kind of volume.

 

[Hoofbite]

PFF as a source is worthless. He was playing mostly zone so how do they base being targeted?

If I remember correctly, targets are assigned to the defender closest to the play...according to PFF.

 

[ThreeandOut]

There was a stat that came out earlier this week that LVE was the only LB in the league with at least 60 tackles and 3 passes defensed. He added 3 more passes defensed this week.

 

[atlantacowboy]

He's legit. We have nothing to complain about with this kid. He's good enough right now to merit pro bowl consideration. He's going to be a perennial all-pro if he stays healthy.

 

[atlantacowboy]

If I remember correctly, targets are assigned to the defender closest to the play...according to PFF.

Yeah, its not exactly a science b/c they don't consider the defensive call b/c they don't know it. So, whoever is closest to the guy catching the ball gets tagged for giving up the play.

 

[CATCH17]

It doesn’t take jumping the mental hoopla hoops to see that LVE is alread way above average when it comes to,covering.

That was our #1 problem a year ago on the team.. Linebackers covering. He’s all but erased that.

 

[xwalker]

If I remember correctly, targets are assigned to the defender closest to the play...according to PFF.

Yes, that's how they do it which is one of the reasons the data is worthless.

I can remember plays from this past game where the defender closest to the receiver at the time of the catch was not the defender with primary responsibility for covering that receiver.

In fact it often penalizes a defender from getting off their own primary responsibility over to attempt to help with another receiver.

 

[blumayne38]

I'll throw myself into the onslaught, but despite all of the positive media coverage, LVE did have a big flaw in his game on Sunday.

Leighton Vander Esch was targeted 11 times and allowed 10 receptions for 92 yards, 47 yards after the catch, and had his first career interception.

Source: PFF

He’s not a CB he’s a LB he needs to be okay at coverage and great at stopping the run.

 

[CATCH17]

He’s not a CB he’s a LB he needs to be okay at coverage and great at stopping the run.

Well.. He's better then ok at it. He's already about as good as it gets at covering and he can still get better.

Just wait until his football knowledge increases. He's going to be the most dynamic 4-3 linebacker in football by a long shot.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Seems to me I remember Emmitt Smith breaking a long run for a touchdown, and the next time he touched the ball was tackled for a loss. So which is it. Greatness or like Julius Jones?
What I see is a rookie that makes some outstanding plays, and then again makes a rookie mistake.

No player is a hero on every play.

 

[Hoofbite]

Yes, that's how they do it which is one of the reasons the data is worthless.

I can remember plays from this past game where the defender closest to the receiver at the time of the catch was not the defender with primary responsibility for covering that receiver.

In fact it often penalizes a defender from getting off their own primary responsibility over to attempt to help with another receiver.

Agreed.

 

[CCBoy]

Somebody here at CZ posted more details in the past.

PFF contacted me about working for them.

There have been some people that post here that work for them. It's strictly forbidden to admit that you work for them.

If you see somebody at on a message board get really defensive about PFF, they probably work for them.

32 teams, 16 games per week minus the bye week teams, 46 active players per team...

There are about 170 snaps in a game including offense, defense and special teams.

There are 11 players per team per snap.

170 x 11 x 32 = 59,,840 player snaps per week

PFF puts out their grades in less than 24 hours.

The All-22 "film" does not come out until well after they've published their grades.

For those taking cheap shots at X...c'mon, grow a pair and grow up. Consistently, there hasn't been a better X's and O's man on site, for a few years now!!

 

[Hoofbite]

I don't see how any of what you posted supports the notion that they are comprised of "fans/bloggers" or that it even matters?

I wouldn't imagine doing the grunt work of looking at a bunch of film would be done by highly skilled labor. Like I said, what are you supposing it should be in your mind?

It's motive mongering like accussing Best Buy of simply "hiring people that just like cell phones and texting" or BMW of hiring salesmen that are "just car fans that have a subscription to Motor Trend."

Really? Lol.

Not even this part?

Somebody here at CZ posted more details in the past.

PFF contacted me about working for them.

They're recruiting off message boards. Seems like a dead giveaway that they are comprised of fans.

Skill isn't the issue. Knowledge and experience are probably the primary attributes for producing reliable data. People actually make good money applying both by watching film and doing all the grunt work. They're called "scouts". You've more or less reduced scouting to an unskilled, grunt work, job. Awfully fitting because that's likely how PFF views it as well.

 

[CCBoy]

Really? Lol.

Not even this part?



They're recruiting off message boards. Seems like a dead giveaway that they are comprised of fans.

Skill isn't the issue. Knowledge and experience are probably the primary attributes for producing reliable data. People actually make good money applying both by watching film and doing all the grunt work. They're called "scouts". You've more or less reduced scouting to an unskilled, grunt work, job. Awfully fitting because that's likely how PFF views it as well.

In the past 24 hours, you have posted more actual discussion...than in the past few years. Good to see your interest aroused again.

 

[Hoofbite]

Somebody here at CZ posted more details in the past.

PFF contacted me about working for them.

There have been some people that post here that work for them. It's strictly forbidden to admit that you work for them.

If you see somebody at on a message board get really defensive about PFF, they probably work for them.

32 teams, 16 games per week minus the bye week teams, 46 active players per team...

There are about 170 snaps in a game including offense, defense and special teams.

There are 11 players per team per snap.

170 x 11 x 32 = 59,,840 player snaps per week

PFF puts out their grades in less than 24 hours.

The All-22 "film" does not come out until well after they've published their grades.

This has been my biggest gripe with PFF. The volume of their work necessitates that they have what amounts to "volunteers". Of course, I remember when PFF's data didn't cost $200/year. I paid $35 (or about) for an annual subscription a couple of times.

Then you start to realize the true volume of their work and it becomes obvious that it's almost impossible to be done without people picking it up as a hobby. Keep in mind, PFF claims that they are not just evaluating outcomes. They claim they are evaluating how well a player did their job. That means a DB who was only beaten because the QB had an hour in the pocket will not receive the same grade as a DB who was beaten right from the snap. Same yardage and outcome, these two DBs get a different grade for that particular play.

If anyone doubts that PFF uses fans, here's something they can try.

Using the broadcast version of a game, time how long it takes to record just the snap counts for every player on a single team.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I'll throw myself into the onslaught, but despite all of the positive media coverage, LVE did have a big flaw in his game on Sunday.

Leighton Vander Esch was targeted 11 times and allowed 10 receptions for 92 yards, 47 yards after the catch, and had his first career interception.

Source: PFF

there is a lot of assumptions in PFF grades. if they don't know the coverage, the scheme and responsibilities then How did they determine it was LVE's responsibility for certain coverage?

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Really? Lol.

Not even this part?



They're recruiting off message boards. Seems like a dead giveaway that they are comprised of fans.

Skill isn't the issue. Knowledge and experience are probably the primary attributes for producing reliable data. People actually make good money applying both by watching film and doing all the grunt work. They're called "scouts". You've more or less reduced scouting to an unskilled, grunt work, job. Awfully fitting because that's likely how PFF views it as well.

So should they be hitting up the Puppy Chow Dog Convention looking for potential employees? They obviously are looking for people interested I'm the sport as a baseline. That sounds more than reasonable.

 

[zrinkill]

What a silly thread

 

[RoboQB]

In all fairness, three things:
3. He is a rookie from a smaller college and was a one year starter there, who didn't get a lot of practice or play time in the summer due to injuries, and has been starting for only 4 games.

My god, when this kid gets a couple of years of weight lifting and another year of experience, look out!

Boise State is not a small college. It's also not a "smaller" college.
Also, it is essentially a pipeline for the Cowboys draft over the years.