Making a Murderer

Dodger12

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65fastback2plus2 said:
7 people went to deliberation ready to vote not-guilty.

People dont just magically change their mind because they are behind closed doors.

Just like none of us in here have really changed each others minds.

AKA, the majority thought he should be free.
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Sure they do...all the time. That's why it can take days or even weeks for a jury to render a decision. They review the evidence and the testimony and discuss it amongst themselves and sometimes a discussion can get heated. That's why it's called "deliberation." Do you think the jurors who initially had a doubt about Avery's guilt were tortured into voting guilty?
 
Dodger12

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MichaelWinicki said:
That made me laugh-out-loud!
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It's insane Mike and it makes me laugh too.......from police planting a dead body and DNA evidence (except in areas that would make their case a slam dunk, of course) to jury tammpering to Lord knows what else.
 
MichaelWinicki

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BlindFaith said:
http://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/Making-Murderer-Theories-39585210#photo-39585210

The first one is very interesting.

I don't believe Avery did it.

I don't necessarily believe the cops did it. I do believe they did frame him for it though.

So this is what we are supposed to believe.

Avery meets TH. She takes photos. (The car is seen driving away)
So either, 1. eyewitness testimony is false, she doesn't drive away, or 2. he somehow follows her in his car and tracks her down?

1a. He does what with her? Beats her up enough that she is bloody, throws her in the back of her own car (her blood found in the back of the car) and then does what? Pulls her right out again and takes her where? To his trailer or to the garage? So she is bloody already and there is no trace of blood anywhere on the road or leading up to his trailer or to the garage. Not a single spec? Even though there is blood all over the back of her car. And no blood is found anywhere inside his trailer or garage. Not a single spec.

1b. Or does he drive her somewhere else? Drives somewhere in her car with her in the back. Finds somewhere quiet and kills her? Why not just bury the body there? Why drag her back to his trailer and burn her? I mean come on, right next to his freaking house? How stupid would that be? Not to mention if he had shot her in the head there would be pools of her blood in the car. Not blood stains that were the result of a struggle.

1c. Now either way, he has her car. So instead of hiding it in any one of his storage sheds until morning and then crushing the car beyond recognition and placing somewhere amongst the thousands of other crushed up cars. He decides to simply stash it away from the other cars and throw some tree branches on it. Making sure that you can still identify exactly what kind of car it was. And then just leaves it there for a couple days.

2a. So if she did actually drive away as witnesses attested to, then he followed her. Caught up to her. Somehow got her to pull over. Beat her up. Threw her in the back of her car. Drove back to his house. Shot her. Burned her. Burried the remains. Drove her car to the not so hidden spot. Then walked back to wherever his car was. Then drove back to his place. All without leaving a trace of her blood anywhere in his car. Or anywhere else for that matter.

Doesn't add up one bit.
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Here's a timeline that someone put together:

  • 8:12am: Avery calls Auto Trader to request "that same girl who was here last time." He needs her to photograph Barb Janda's van, and leaves Barb's name and phone number
  • 11:43am: Teresa calls Barb's phone and leaves a voicemail saying she can photograph the van after 2pm, and asking for an address.
  • ~1:30pm: Teresa visits the Schmitz residence to photograph a car
  • ~2:00pm: Teresa visits the Zipperer residence to photograph a car
  • 2:24-2:35pm: Avery calls Teresa's cell phone twice, using the *67 feature to block his number from her caller ID
  • 2:27pm: Auto Trader calls Teresa's cell phone, and she tells them she is about 10 minutes away from the Avery property
  • In Avery's Nov 9 interview, he states Teresa arrived between 2:00-2:30pm. He met her by the van to pay her in cash and give her his ad, then followed her to her vehicle where she gave him a recent issue of the Auto Trader magainze. He put the magazine on his desk and came back outside, at which point he saw her at the end of the road with her left turn signal on. He states the entire exchange lasted about five minutes. Bobby Dassey's truck had been present, but when he came back outside after putting the magazine on his desk it was gone. Five to ten minutes later his mother brought him his mail and they chatted, and then he went and watched TV or listened to the radio. He denies using his burn barrels or fire pit this day.
  • 2:30-2:45pm: Bobby Dassey testifies he saw Teresa photographing the car, then walking towards the Avery trailer. He showered and got ready to go bow hunting. When he left, he saw Teresa's Rav 4, but not Teresa. Scott Tadych testifies he saw Bobby on the road before 3:00pm
  • 3:30-3:40pm: The school bus driver who drops Brendan and Blaine off from school testifies she saw Teresa taking photographs, and Avery walking towards his trailer.
  • ~3:30pm: A delivery man says he was filling up at a gas station near the Avery property and saw a vehicle that looked similar to Teresa's drive away from the Avery property. He did not see who was driving.
  • 4:35pm: Avery calls Teresa's cell phone, without using *67 to block his number. He states he wanted her to come back to photograph another vehicle. Her phone had already been turned off or destroyed by the time of this call.
- See more at: http://stevenaverycase.com/timeline-of-halbach-case/#sthash.g304uAhS.dpuf

Personally I think the delivery man was mistaken on the car.

I think the "exchange" between Avery and Teresa started after the time suggested by Avery and it lasted longer then what Avery suggested.

The 4:35 phone call that she never answered is telling. It would seem to indicate the "deed" was done by that point, i.e. she was dead already or incapacitated. At no point in any of this do we have any mention of the other possible suspects (Avery's brothers) being around. So if she was still taking pictures at 3:30 and her phone was no longer answered at 4:35... that's a pretty small window for someone other than Stephen Avery to do this.

As far as not finding blood anywhere...

I guess I'm the only one who knows what a tarp is.

On top of that injuries that incapacitated her may not have been bloody or very bloody.

The bloody part would have been the destroying of the body and again that could have been conducted on something that kept blood from hitting the floor or simply done in an outside location that could have been washed off.
 
BlindFaith

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MichaelWinicki said:
Here's a timeline that someone put together:

  • 8:12am: Avery calls Auto Trader to request "that same girl who was here last time." He needs her to photograph Barb Janda's van, and leaves Barb's name and phone number
  • 11:43am: Teresa calls Barb's phone and leaves a voicemail saying she can photograph the van after 2pm, and asking for an address.
  • ~1:30pm: Teresa visits the Schmitz residence to photograph a car
  • ~2:00pm: Teresa visits the Zipperer residence to photograph a car
  • 2:24-2:35pm: Avery calls Teresa's cell phone twice, using the *67 feature to block his number from her caller ID
  • 2:27pm: Auto Trader calls Teresa's cell phone, and she tells them she is about 10 minutes away from the Avery property
  • In Avery's Nov 9 interview, he states Teresa arrived between 2:00-2:30pm. He met her by the van to pay her in cash and give her his ad, then followed her to her vehicle where she gave him a recent issue of the Auto Trader magainze. He put the magazine on his desk and came back outside, at which point he saw her at the end of the road with her left turn signal on. He states the entire exchange lasted about five minutes. Bobby Dassey's truck had been present, but when he came back outside after putting the magazine on his desk it was gone. Five to ten minutes later his mother brought him his mail and they chatted, and then he went and watched TV or listened to the radio. He denies using his burn barrels or fire pit this day.
  • 2:30-2:45pm: Bobby Dassey testifies he saw Teresa photographing the car, then walking towards the Avery trailer. He showered and got ready to go bow hunting. When he left, he saw Teresa's Rav 4, but not Teresa. Scott Tadych testifies he saw Bobby on the road before 3:00pm
  • 3:30-3:40pm: The school bus driver who drops Brendan and Blaine off from school testifies she saw Teresa taking photographs, and Avery walking towards his trailer.
  • ~3:30pm: A delivery man says he was filling up at a gas station near the Avery property and saw a vehicle that looked similar to Teresa's drive away from the Avery property. He did not see who was driving.
  • 4:35pm: Avery calls Teresa's cell phone, without using *67 to block his number. He states he wanted her to come back to photograph another vehicle. Her phone had already been turned off or destroyed by the time of this call.
- See more at: http://stevenaverycase.com/timeline-of-halbach-case/#sthash.g304uAhS.dpuf

Personally I think the delivery man was mistaken on the car.

I think the "exchange" between Avery and Teresa started after the time suggested by Avery and it lasted longer then what Avery suggested.

The 4:35 phone call that she never answered is telling. It would seem to indicate the "deed" was done by that point, i.e. she was dead already or incapacitated. At no point in any of this do we have any mention of the other possible suspects (Avery's brothers) being around. So if she was still taking pictures at 3:30 and her phone was no longer answered at 4:35... that's a pretty small window for someone other than Stephen Avery to do this.

As far as not finding blood anywhere...

I guess I'm the only one who knows what a tarp is.

On top of that injuries that incapacitated her may not have been bloody or very bloody.

The bloody part would have been the destroying of the body and again that could have been conducted on something that kept blood from hitting the floor or simply done in an outside location that could have been washed off.
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You didn't answer the questions.

And in the middle of all of this going on, Avery manages to talk to his girlfriend who is in jail, twice. If I recall, a couple hours apart. At around 5 and 7. Those were recorded and there is no sign of anything out of the ordinary in his voice.
 
MichaelWinicki

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BlindFaith said:
You didn't answer the questions.

And in the middle of all of this going on, Avery manages to talk to his girlfriend who is in jail, twice. If I recall, a couple hours apart. At around 5 and 7. Those were recorded and there is no sign of anything out of the ordinary in his voice.
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The questions were interesting conjecture... I didn't think answering them would advance things as far as my own perspective. Maybe someone else will.

He knew the phone calls were likely recorded plus it was his GF... what's he going to say? "Hey hon, captured a sex slave... I'm going to cut her up after the nephew and I hose her."

Read or study true-crime situations and you'll find many murderers who have the ability to completed shield their misdeeds from others... like they're flipping a switch.
 
65fastback2plus2

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Dodger12 said:
Wait....are you trying to tell me the police planted evidence but didn't plant it in the most damning place which would solidify there case? Interesting......
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In planting evidence, you never OVER plant and become obvious, duh
 
65fastback2plus2

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Dodger12 said:
" Do you think the jurors who initially had a doubt about Avery's guilt were tortured into voting guilty?
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Do I need to point out the juror that came forward recently and point to their comments about how they were threatened????
 
MichaelWinicki

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65fastback2plus2 said:
Would you want the mannitowac officers to make you disappear? Ya...i dont blame them.
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Where's the proof that they had this sort of power?

Who says that there was a history of police brutality in that county?

Again... without names it's just an urban legend.
 
65fastback2plus2

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MichaelWinicki said:
Where's the proof that they had this sort of power?

Who says that there was a history of police brutality in that county?

Again... without names it's just an urban legend.
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Without a drop of blood, its just an urban legend...yet he's still serving time for it!
 
MichaelWinicki

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65fastback2plus2 said:
Without a drop of blood, its just an urban legend...yet he's still serving time for it!
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Lot's of people are convicted without finding blood.

But still her bones, and electronic gear were found in the burn barrel on his property and his DNA was found on the hood latch of her car where he opened up the hood to disconnect the battery. And more than one expert stated that her bones were burned in that barrel along with radial tires and a seat from a car.

On top of that, even if the kid wasn't truthful in his interviews to the investigators as it pertains to his participation and how she was killed, he still admitted to his own mother on the phone call from jail that his uncle did it.
 
CATCH17

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65fastback2plus2

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CATCH17 said:
They found her cremains in a neighbors burn barrel as well and some other random fire pit.
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The largest piece of her body, which had the skin on the shin bone that identified her, was found in the quarry burn site.

Nothing out of steven avery's fire barrel could be identified as teresa halbach.
 
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