Man With Gun Caught Before Recreating TDKR Massacre

[Denim Chicken]

And what would we expect the guy's lawyer to say?

I think a bag full of weapons, coupled with showing up 30 minutes early to sit in the middle of the last row of the theater against the wall, adds up to lethal intentions.

I'm not waiting around until these clowns open fire.

Yes, it's not illegal for them to search any bag you're carrying when entering a public venue. (unfortunately, especially when trying to sneak beer into a concert!)

Well, good thing he'll have a trial instead of being convicted by someone who reads a preliminary article. My guess, without any other evidence he will get a weapons charge and that is it.

A privately owned public venue can ask you for a search, but cannot forcibly search you (you can decide to leave instead).

 

[JBond]

And what would we expect the guy's lawyer to say?

I think a bag full of weapons, coupled with showing up 30 minutes early to sit in the middle of the last row of the theater against the wall, adds up to lethal intentions.

I'm not waiting around until these clowns open fire.



Yes, it's not illegal for them to search any bag you're carrying when entering a public venue. (unfortunately, especially when trying to sneak beer into a concert!)

The thought police are alive and well. Good to see we have morphed into a society that punishes alleged thoughts with no proof what so ever. Just round up those you disgree with and lock them up.

Stash...Even in the "wild west" which you are so fond of citing, it was illegal to murder people. The same problems from back then still exists today. Enforcement of the current laws is the issue. In the AZ shooting a lunatic had made multiple death threats and the sheriff chose to ignore the problem. In CO the lunatic mailed a notebook full of his plans to a psychologist that decided the notebook was not worth looking at. In both cases the information available was not acted upon.

There is no strongly worded law that will prevent crazy people from doing crazy things. They are crazy. I do not understand why you want to prevent people from defending themselves from nuts.

Bad people will do bad things. Limiting an individual's ability to defend themselves helps no one but those that wish harm upon others.

lets continue this on the other site.

 

[jobberone]

Well, good thing he'll have a trial instead of being convicted by someone who reads a preliminary article. My guess, without any other evidence he will get a weapons charge and that is it.

A privately owned public venue can ask you for a search, but cannot forcibly search you (you can decide to leave instead).

I have a CWP even though I never carry. Laws vary from state to state so I don't know if even having a CWP would protect him. Not having a permit and having a loaded weapon on his person is a reasonably big deal most states.

Any official with jurisdiction can search you if they identify themselves and they have reasonable probable cause. No judge is going to say that search was illegal. I take that back. Almost no judges.

If he didn't make any threatening gestures or brandish his weapon they will likely not be able to do more than get him on the weapons charge. He had better hope he doesn't have priors or be on probation. The knives are also likely to be illegal and they might be able to get him on multiple charges one for each weapon.

He's in trouble although I doubt he goes to prison the rest of his life.

 

[Dallas]

I have a CWP even though I never carry. Laws vary from state to state so I don't know if even having a CWP would protect him. Not having a permit and having a loaded weapon on his person is a reasonably big deal most states.

Any official with jurisdiction can search you if they identify themselves and they have reasonable probable cause. No judge is going to say that search was illegal. I take that back. Almost no judges.

If he didn't make any threatening gestures or brandish his weapon they will likely not be able to do more than get him on the weapons charge. He had better hope he doesn't have priors or be on probation. The knives are also likely to be illegal and they might be able to get him on multiple charges one for each weapon.

He's in trouble although I doubt he goes to prison the rest of his life.

Agreed. I have no problem w/ how this went down. You can't conceal carry w/o a permit in private establishments.

No permit, he should get a real fine and some probation most likely, unless he has priors etc etc..

 

[Denim Chicken]

Any official with jurisdiction can search you if they identify themselves and they have reasonable probable cause. No judge is going to say that search was illegal. I take that back. Almost no judges.

I’m sure his lawyer will argue on both points. I believe the man who searched him was an off-duty police officer on private property and do not believe that showing up to a movie theater early would classify as probable cause for a search.
Now if the suspect consented (of which I’m not sure) all that is moot.

 

[jobberone]

I’m sure his lawyer will argue on both points. I believe the man who searched him was an off-duty police officer on private property and do not believe that showing up to a movie theater early would classify as probable cause for a search.
Now if the suspect consented (of which I’m not sure) all that is moot.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Any officer on or off duty is obligated to uphold the law if they suspect criminal behavior. He had jurisdiction to search. 100 to 1 odds everyone has been told to be suspicious of and look for copycats. Legal search, detention and arrest. Slam dunk.

 

[JonJon]

I'm seriously considering getting a gun permit and carry one on me at all times. I don't plan to do anything bad, but I want to be protected from morons like this guy. I think we will begin to see more and more people walking around with guns because of incidents like this. There's no need in only crazy people walking around with guns.

 

[Stash]

Well, good thing he'll have a trial instead of being convicted by someone who reads a preliminary article. My guess, without any other evidence he will get a weapons charge and that is it.

I wouldn't disagree with that likely penalty.

A privately owned public venue can ask you for a search, but cannot forcibly search you (you can decide to leave instead).

Yeah, that's true.

"Well if you feel that way about it, I'm takin' my bag o' guns and goin' home!"

 

[JBond]

I'm seriously considering getting a gun permit and carry one on me at all times. I don't plan to do anything bad, but I want to be protected from morons like this guy. I think we will begin to see more and more people walking around with guns because of incidents like this. There's no need in only crazy people walking around with guns.

If you choose to go down that road, contact your insurance company regarding liability in case you are forced to defend yourself.

 

[Stash]

The thought police are alive and well. Good to see we have morphed into a society that punishes alleged thoughts with no proof what so ever. Just round up those you disgree with and lock them up.

What constitutes proof to you then? Does he have to open fire and kill someone first?

Stash...Even in the "wild west" which you are so fond of citing, it was illegal to murder people.

And yet murder rates were sky high? Mere words on paper don't stop people from doing things like this.

The same problems from back then still exists today. Enforcement of the current laws is the issue. In the AZ shooting a lunatic had made multiple death threats and the sheriff chose to ignore the problem. In CO the lunatic mailed a notebook full of his plans to a psychologist that decided the notebook was not worth looking at. In both cases the information available was not acted upon.

How about the guy behind the counter, all too eager to trade guns for cash with only the fewest of required questions asked?

There is no strongly worded law that will prevent crazy people from doing crazy things. They are crazy. I do not understand why you want to prevent people from defending themselves from nuts.

Maybe that's what this nut actually thought he was doing? And at the drop of a hat, he's pulling out a gun and shooting first, asking questions later. Is that the world you want to live in? I don;t.

Bad people will do bad things. Limiting an individual's ability to defend themselves helps no one but those that wish harm upon others.

lets continue this on the other site.

Ok, Sounds good.

 

[Stash]

I’m sure his lawyer will argue on both points. I believe the man who searched him was an off-duty police officer on private property and do not believe that showing up to a movie theater early would classify as probable cause for a search.
Now if the suspect consented (of which I’m not sure) all that is moot.

The theater has the right to search him if they think he's smuggling snacks into the theater, much less weapons.

I believe the folks who search you before entering any other venues are not on-duty police officers.

 

[JonJon]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Any officer on or off duty is obligated to uphold the law if they suspect criminal behavior. He had jurisdiction to search. 100 to 1 odds everyone has been told to be suspicious of and look for copycats. Legal search, detention and arrest. Slam dunk.

I'm with you. It's better to be safe than sorry. If the staff had reason to believe that he was acting suspicious or up to no good, then they should question him and/or call the authorities. If he did not do anything illegal, then he wouldn't have anything to worry about and he would go on with his life.

 

[Stash]

If you choose to go down that road, contact your insurance company regarding liability in case you are forced to defend yourself.

And here we go.

This is the answer?

Arm everybody?

 

[JonJon]

If you choose to go down that road, contact your insurance company regarding liability in case you are forced to defend yourself.

I will do everything legally and obey the laws. It is sad that our society has come to this though.

 

[Denim Chicken]

What is this 'other site' you speak of?

 

[JonJon]

And here we go.

This is the answer?

Arm everybody?

Unfortunately, that's where it looks like we are headed. I don't like it anymore than you do but I feel that if more sane people carried weapons, then it would limit the damage that insane people could inflict on the innocent. We don't always have time to wait on the police to come. If someone else in the theater had a weapon, maybe the shooter would have been immobilized before he killed so many people.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Not sure why anyone is upset about this unless they are worried about the loss of personal rights that used to be guaranteed by the Constitution. Illegal searches etc.

At any given time I have both a gun and a pocket knife with me. That is not illegal. Did he brandish his weapon or threaten someone? When did random search and seizure become law of the land?

Am I missing something?

that was my first thought, what made him "suspicious" to the point the cop who wasn't working demanded to look in his bag (and no, the if you have nothing to hide, why not let him look in your bag argument has no merit).

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

None whatsoever.

Bags get searched when you enter public events.

Don't want to get searched?

Stay at home.

but he wasn't searched by the staff, it was off duty cop who decided he was "suspicious" for what appears to be no good reason other than getting to a movie early (gasp) and sitting in the back row (gasp again).

that being said, if the guy was so afraid of being shot at a a movie theatre that he had to arm himself to go, then he should just stay home and do what the guy in Captain Jack by Billy Joel did when his sister was on a date.

 

[JBond]

What is this 'other site' you speak of?

A little backroom iceberg created where these type of discussions are welcome. I will PM you the link. I thought you had it already.

If anyone else is interested contact iceberg or me. I don't want to break any rules by posting a link to another site.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Unfortunately, that's where it looks like we are headed. I don't like it anymore than you do but I feel that if more sane people carried weapons, then it would limit the damage that insane people could inflict on the innocent. We don't always have time to wait on the police to come. If someone else in the theater had a weapon, maybe the shooter would have been immobilized before he killed so many people.

problem with that of course is that you could end up with firefights all over the place and possibly more innocents getting hit in the cross fire