Marinelli as a talent evaluator

[Galian Beast]

I've begun to worry about something here. I think Marinelli is a great coach, and I definitely think he has the ability to draw the most out of players, but I'm seriously beginning to question his ability to evaluate talent.

Specifically I wanted to take a closer look at the Bears, and I wondered why more Bears players weren't brought in. First there weren't a ton of defensive players drafted while he was with the Bears, and most of them aren't much to write home about. Shea McClellin in particular looks like a terrible reach on their part. I see one scouting report that says that he was a 5th round value (though many player personnel guys at least said 2nd or late 2nd).

I know as a coach he isn't the primary voice that determines who gets drafted, but going through his history as a dline coach, assistant head coach, head coach, and defensive coordinator, I've noticed there aren't a lot of hits. Other than Melton I don't really know if I saw any.

I still think this defense has a lot of potential, but even the players on the team I'm most excited about weren't really drafted by Marinelli (with the exception of Gregory who I think just fell in our lap). Lee, Hardy, and McClain were all here before Marinelli or were free agent signings/trades.

Again, I think he is a great coach and hopefully our front office is better at this than Chicago and Detroit, but it is just something I noticed. I think Melton is the only pro bowl defensive player he has every drafted in his career.

 

[sureletsrace]

I tend to agree with you. That's why scouts don't coach, and (most) coaches aren't scouts.

I think it takes a special instinct to do either one, and I think there are very few people who do. Like me.

 

[DoctorChicken]

I was creeping a Bears forum a long time ago when we were rumored to be signing Melton, and I distinctly remember Bears fans talking about how bad their scouting sucks. So that could have something to do with it.

 

[cowboyfan4life_mark]

Trust in McClay.

 

[TonyRomo17]

Just because the Cowboys listen to their coaches input in selecting players in the draft doesnt mean that all teams do,

 

[Galian Beast]

Just because the Cowboys listen to their coaches input in selecting players in the draft doesnt mean that all teams do,

I thought about that, but I looked at his entire career.... It wasn't impressive. Almost every great player that ever played for him was a free agent signing or was already on the team when he got there...

 

[gimmesix]

I've begun to worry about something here. I think Marinelli is a great coach, and I definitely think he has the ability to draw the most out of players, but I'm seriously beginning to question his ability to evaluate talent.

Specifically I wanted to take a closer look at the Bears, and I wondered why more Bears players weren't brought in. First there weren't a ton of defensive players drafted while he was with the Bears, and most of them aren't much to write home about. Shea McClellin in particular looks like a terrible reach on their part. I see one scouting report that says that he was a 5th round value (though many player personnel guys at least said 2nd or late 2nd).

I know as a coach he isn't the primary voice that determines who gets drafted, but going through his history as a dline coach, assistant head coach, head coach, and defensive coordinator, I've noticed there aren't a lot of hits. Other than Melton I don't really know if I saw any.

I still think this defense has a lot of potential, but even the players on the team I'm most excited about weren't really drafted by Marinelli (with the exception of Gregory who I think just fell in our lap). Lee, Hardy, and McClain were all here before Marinelli or were free agent signings/trades.

Again, I think he is a great coach and hopefully our front office is better at this than Chicago and Detroit, but it is just something I noticed. I think Melton is the only pro bowl defensive player he has every drafted in his career.

The good news is Dallas drafted Jones and Gregory because they were at the top of their board. I don't believe it was Marinelli that put them there.

 

[AsthmaField]

Lynch, Sapp, Barber, and Brooks were drafted by the bucs while Rod was there. Rice was a free agent.

 

[daveferr33]

I was creeping a Bears forum a long time ago when we were rumored to be signing Melton, and I distinctly remember Bears fans talking about how bad their scouting sucks. So that could have something to do with it.

They must not have been true fans.

 

[Risen Star]

If our war room is run properly, Rod Marinelli.....~moment of silence~.....has a very small voice in the room.

But I was thinking this very same thing on day 3 of this draft. Damien Wilson. That's a Marinelli LB. Ryan Russell. Career underachiever scouts would frown on but an assistant coach might feel he's the guy who can get the most out of his measurables. Mark Nzeocha. Another raw athlete a coach can mold. I'm not claiming these are Marinelli driven draft choices, I don't know what goes on in that room, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were.

So when you're watching Darren McFadden starting this season you may have R(G)od to thank for it.

If you recall, when Campo was canned and Big Bill brought in there was a shift toward the scouting department and away from the assistant coaches in terms of talent evaluation, stacking our board and making draft day decisions. This was a good change. Those coaches don't know the players like the scouts do. There needs to be an open communication between the two with the coaches letting the scouts know what types of players they need, but it should always be the scouting department identifying who those players are.

 

[JoeKing]

Trust in McClay.

Exactly my thoughts as well. In Will I trust!.

 

[Plankton]

Lynch, Sapp, Barber, and Brooks were drafted by the bucs while Rod was there. Rice was a free agent.

Of that group, only Ronde Barber was drafted while Marinelli was in Tampa. Lynch was drafted in 1993, Sapp and Brooks in 1995. Marinelli came to Tampa in 1996 with Tony Dungy. Barber was drafted in 1997.

 

[perrykemp]

Of that group, only Ronde Barber was drafted while Marinelli was in Tampa. Lynch was drafted in 1993, Sapp and Brooks in 1995. Marinelli came to Tampa in 1996 with Tony Dungy. Barber was drafted in 1997.

Marinelli had we have to assume nothing to do with Barber's signing. Marinelli was the DL coach -- not a DB coach.

 

[Risen Star]

I thought about that, but I looked at his entire career.... It wasn't impressive. Almost every great player that ever played for him was a free agent signing or was already on the team when he got there...

We get it, GB. You hate Rod Marinelli.

I'll consider you a football athiest.

 

[Plankton]

If our war room is run properly, Rod Marinelli.....~moment of silence~.....has a very small voice in the room.

But I was thinking this very same thing on day 3 of this draft. Damien Wilson. That's a Marinelli LB. Ryan Russell. Career underachiever scouts would frown on but an assistant coach might feel he's the guy who can get the most out of his measurables. Mark Nzeocha. Another raw athlete a coach can mold. I'm not claiming these are Marinelli driven draft choices, I don't know what goes on in that room, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were.

So when you're watching Darren McFadden starting this season you may have R(G)od to thank for it.

If you recall, when Campo was canned and Big Bill brought in there was a shift toward the scouting department and away from the assistant coaches in terms of talent evaluation, stacking our board and making draft day decisions. This was a good change. Those coaches don't know the players like the scouts do. There needs to be an open communication between the two with the coaches letting the scouts know what types of players they need, but it should always be the scouting department identifying who those players are.

Exactly right. Coaches help the scouting department develop the scheme prototypes for the position(s), and the scouts identify the talent. Coaches then serve as a cross reference at best in terms of stacking the board.

 

[Galian Beast]

The good news is Dallas drafted Jones and Gregory because they were at the top of their board. I don't believe it was Marinelli that put them there.

I agree. I think the Cowboys did a really good job of sticking to their board while prioritizing the defense.

It takes a while to bring a defense back from the brink.

In the last three years we've made some investments in defense.

CB - Byron Jones (Terrance Mitchell)
CB - (BW Webb)
FS - JJ Wilcox
SS (Ahmad Dixon)

WLB - Damien Wilson, Will Smith
MLB - Anthony Hitchens
SLB - Mark Nzeocha (DeVonte Holloman)

DE - Demarcus Lawrence, Ben Gardner
DT - Ken Bishop
DT
DE - Randy Gregory, Ryan Russell

We've basically ignored defensive tackle, though we have clearly put an emphasis on the front seven.

 

[Galian Beast]

We get it, GB. You hate Rod Marinelli.

I'll consider you a football athiest.

Actually as I said, I think he is a great coach and I'm very glad that we have him. I would have been upset had he gone to Tampa.

 

[Knotamus]

Calm down and grab you a big glass of Kool-aid. As mentioned just a few post above...Trust Will McClay. Over the past four or five drafts, the Cowboys have done a very good job of evaluating talent and drafting players that fit OUR scheme. Even when we drafted Travis Fredrick in the first round, I can distinctly remember the bashing fans gave for the pick. I'd say those fans have eating crow a few times since. Where would the Boys have been without the controversial pick of Hitchens last year? My point is this..Marinelli obviously gives his input on what skill set he's looking for in a player, but it's "Will McClay and the gang" that actually puts in the long hours to ensure they have pegged the "right kind of guys". I'll admit in the past I'd be onboard with your concerns, but they have proven they are following an outline to build a team trough the draft. I'm finally proud of the decisions we are making and I'm drinking out of the pitcher now. There's no denying we are a better team than we were just four years ago.. So "Trust the Process" and enjoy the ride. GO COWBOYS!!!

 

[AsthmaField]

Of that group, only Ronde Barber was drafted while Marinelli was in Tampa. Lynch was drafted in 1993, Sapp and Brooks in 1995. Marinelli came to Tampa in 1996 with Tony Dungy. Barber was drafted in 1997.

Damn... I really thought they were all on or after 96. That's what I get for not checking.

I must be getting old because 96 seems forever ago.

 

[Aven8]

I've begun to worry about something here. I think Marinelli is a great coach, and I definitely think he has the ability to draw the most out of players, but I'm seriously beginning to question his ability to evaluate talent.

Specifically I wanted to take a closer look at the Bears, and I wondered why more Bears players weren't brought in. First there weren't a ton of defensive players drafted while he was with the Bears, and most of them aren't much to write home about. Shea McClellin in particular looks like a terrible reach on their part. I see one scouting report that says that he was a 5th round value (though many player personnel guys at least said 2nd or late 2nd).

I know as a coach he isn't the primary voice that determines who gets drafted, but going through his history as a dline coach, assistant head coach, head coach, and defensive coordinator, I've noticed there aren't a lot of hits. Other than Melton I don't really know if I saw any.

I still think this defense has a lot of potential, but even the players on the team I'm most excited about weren't really drafted by Marinelli (with the exception of Gregory who I think just fell in our lap). Lee, Hardy, and McClain were all here before Marinelli or were free agent signings/trades.

Again, I think he is a great coach and hopefully our front office is better at this than Chicago and Detroit, but it is just something I noticed. I think Melton is the only pro bowl defensive player he has every drafted in his career.

Shea was great for one game when he drove Rogers shoulder in the turf and broke his collar bone! Love that guy!