Marinelli as a talent evaluator

[Risen Star]

I agree. I think the Cowboys did a really good job of sticking to their board while prioritizing the defense.

It takes a while to bring a defense back from the brink.

In the last three years we've made some investments in defense.

CB - Byron Jones (Terrance Mitchell)
CB - (BW Webb)
FS - JJ Wilcox
SS (Ahmad Dixon)

WLB - Damien Wilson, Will Smith
MLB - Anthony Hitchens
SLB - Mark Nzeocha (DeVonte Holloman)

DE - Demarcus Lawrence, Ben Gardner
DT - Ken Bishop
DT
DE - Randy Gregory, Ryan Russell

We've basically ignored defensive tackle, though we have clearly put an emphasis on the front seven.

It wasn't a long ago that our edge rushers were Jeremy Mincey and George Selvie. For the love of anything holy.

Now we have Hardy, Lawrence and Gregory.

 

[Galian Beast]

Lynch, Sapp, Barber, and Brooks were drafted by the bucs while Rod was there. Rice was a free agent.

Sapp and Brooks were drafted a year before Rod came to Tampa. And he was the defensive line coach there, he wouldn't have had much to do with Barber or Lynch (also note that Lynch was also there for Rod).

 

[Galian Beast]

It wasn't a long ago that our edge rushers were Jeremy Mincey and George Selvie. For the love of anything holy.

Now we have Hardy, Lawrence and Gregory.

I'm not sure how much that has to do with Marinelli. Circumstances relating to our conversion from the 3-4 to the 4-3 played a large part in our players leaving, and thus the need to replace them was obvious. Given our move to the 4-3, I'm not sure we do anything differently as it relates to these players.

 

[Risen Star]

It falls on the GM if the assistant coaches are getting too much say. Honestly, I would almost ignore those guys during the draft. I wouldn't be against not even having them in the room.

 

[perrykemp]

Shea was great for one game when he drove Rogers shoulder in the turf and broke his collar bone! Love that guy!

The way the Shea's career is going that play might end up being the highlight of his career.

 

[Plankton]

It falls on the GM if the assistant coaches are getting too much say. Honestly, I would almost ignore those guys during the draft. I wouldn't be against not even having them in the room.

Hey, if it weren't for the Marinator, the Cowboys would be trotting Sharrif Floyd out there, and not Travis Frederick and Terrence Williams.

Think about the fallout if he wasn't there.

I wonder what Floyd's nickname would be? Square Peg (in Round Hole)?

 

[Wood]

I've begun to worry about something here. I think Marinelli is a great coach, and I definitely think he has the ability to draw the most out of players, but I'm seriously beginning to question his ability to evaluate talent.

Specifically I wanted to take a closer look at the Bears, and I wondered why more Bears players weren't brought in. First there weren't a ton of defensive players drafted while he was with the Bears, and most of them aren't much to write home about. Shea McClellin in particular looks like a terrible reach on their part. I see one scouting report that says that he was a 5th round value (though many player personnel guys at least said 2nd or late 2nd).

I know as a coach he isn't the primary voice that determines who gets drafted, but going through his history as a dline coach, assistant head coach, head coach, and defensive coordinator, I've noticed there aren't a lot of hits. Other than Melton I don't really know if I saw any.

I still think this defense has a lot of potential, but even the players on the team I'm most excited about weren't really drafted by Marinelli (with the exception of Gregory who I think just fell in our lap). Lee, Hardy, and McClain were all here before Marinelli or were free agent signings/trades.

Again, I think he is a great coach and hopefully our front office is better at this than Chicago and Detroit, but it is just something I noticed. I think Melton is the only pro bowl defensive player he has every drafted in his career.

to be honest...I don't think Marinelli is sitting there targeting guys. I think he listens to scouts and has personal conversations with prospect to determine how much he loves playing football. If the scouts and him match up...they select him. I thought Matt Eberflus had interesting comments concerning how Dallas drafts LB. They like going after WILL linebackers who love football. They feel if you have ability to play WILL that you can play any of LB spots.

 

[Galian Beast]

And looking at our history drafting secondary players, it might be the worst position group we've ever drafted for in the last 10 years. I really hope Byron Jones changes that.

 

[Galian Beast]

to be honest...I don't think Marinelli is sitting there targeting guys. I think he listens to scouts and has personal conversations with prospect to determine how much he loves playing football. If the scouts and him match up...they select him. I thought Matt Eberflus had interesting comments concerning how Dallas drafts LB. They like going after WILL linebackers who love football. They feel if you have ability to play WILL that you can play any of LB spots.

I think there is a lot of truth to that. The will linebackers are generally the most athletic. I think Mike is the toughest spot, and Sam requires the best coverage, but generally speaking I think you're pretty good if you get someone who is a true and true linebacker, and that is generally a Will.

 

[Risen Star]

And looking at our history drafting secondary players, it might be the worst position group we've ever drafted for in the last 10 years. I really hope Byron Jones changes that.

I would just love to see a rangy FS here at some point in my lifetime.

 

[Risen Star]

to be honest...I don't think Marinelli is sitting there targeting guys. I think he listens to scouts and has personal conversations with prospect to determine how much he loves playing football. If the scouts and him match up...they select him. I thought Matt Eberflus had interesting comments concerning how Dallas drafts LB. They like going after WILL linebackers who love football. They feel if you have ability to play WILL that you can play any of LB spots.

That doesn't make sense to me. There are a lot of good Will LBs who can't play the Mike at a high level.

 

[Wood]

That doesn't make sense to me. There are a lot of good Will LBs who can't play the Mike at a high level.

I think they like WILL who can hit. Apparently Hitchens and pick this year fit into mold.

 

[jobberone]

If our war room is run properly, Rod Marinelli.....~moment of silence~.....has a very small voice in the room.

But I was thinking this very same thing on day 3 of this draft. Damien Wilson. That's a Marinelli LB. Ryan Russell. Career underachiever scouts would frown on but an assistant coach might feel he's the guy who can get the most out of his measurables. Mark Nzeocha. Another raw athlete a coach can mold. I'm not claiming these are Marinelli driven draft choices, I don't know what goes on in that room, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were.

So when you're watching Darren McFadden starting this season you may have R(G)od to thank for it.

If you recall, when Campo was canned and Big Bill brought in there was a shift toward the scouting department and away from the assistant coaches in terms of talent evaluation, stacking our board and making draft day decisions. This was a good change. Those coaches don't know the players like the scouts do. There needs to be an open communication between the two with the coaches letting the scouts know what types of players they need, but it should always be the scouting department identifying who those players are.

This.

 

[jobberone]

I think they like WILL who can hit. Apparently Hitchens and pick this year fit into mold.

The Will must be a fast LB who can cover well enough. He can be on the smaller side as he's covered a lot. If you can find an instinctive, fast, cover LB who can shed blocks and play the nickel then you have a very good to elite talent. Everyone is looking for that guy.

It's problematic to find three guys who can do all that and be able to know their assignments at all positions and play them well. Generally you're looking at good LBs who are good enough to do their job.

If I'm looking for talent at LB in the later rounds then I'm looking for an athlete who has enough of the above qualities and hope they have or develop the instincts to play the position well. Being smart is a large help.

Instincts at LB are the most important thing at this level as most have the metrics to play well. If you can teach that then you win the lottery. Having a coaches' coach is a huge plus.

 

[Idgit]

The coaches know what's required of each position in their scheme, and they have a good idea of what liabilities are coachable and which are not. The scouts then go and find those players that fit those specifications. And the two groups work together to make sure that what they are drafting fits what they can coach. The general manager, and in our case, his son, oversee that these two groups work together. But it's the scouts that setup the board.

One of the reasons Parcels was so successful so quickly is he knew exactly which types of players he wanted for each position on his field, and he wasn't shy about communicating that.
One of the reasons I think Wade was so unsuccessful, despite being a really really good coach is because he didn't have a firm grasp of what he wanted on the field in terms of personnel and generally deferred to the Owner/GM when it came to getting him the best possible players.

Garrett, with his family background in scouting and emphasis on communication, has done a nice job of getting that communication right between scouts and coaches.

Which is why I have very little worry about Rod Marinelli's relative ability to evaluate talent. He's here to coach the talent. His ability to do that give us some flexibility in terms of how we set priorities, but that's about it. The rest is all philosophical when it comes down to which players and which positions to bet on based on the likelihood the picks can be developed into good players.

 

[AsthmaField]

If our war room is run properly, Rod Marinelli.....~moment of silence~.....has a very small voice in the room.

Even though you have worn that joke down to the nub... that still made me chuckle.

 

[ConstantReboot]

I've begun to worry about something here. I think Marinelli is a great coach, and I definitely think he has the ability to draw the most out of players, but I'm seriously beginning to question his ability to evaluate talent.

Specifically I wanted to take a closer look at the Bears, and I wondered why more Bears players weren't brought in. First there weren't a ton of defensive players drafted while he was with the Bears, and most of them aren't much to write home about. Shea McClellin in particular looks like a terrible reach on their part. I see one scouting report that says that he was a 5th round value (though many player personnel guys at least said 2nd or late 2nd).

I know as a coach he isn't the primary voice that determines who gets drafted, but going through his history as a dline coach, assistant head coach, head coach, and defensive coordinator, I've noticed there aren't a lot of hits. Other than Melton I don't really know if I saw any.

I still think this defense has a lot of potential, but even the players on the team I'm most excited about weren't really drafted by Marinelli (with the exception of Gregory who I think just fell in our lap). Lee, Hardy, and McClain were all here before Marinelli or were free agent signings/trades.

Again, I think he is a great coach and hopefully our front office is better at this than Chicago and Detroit, but it is just something I noticed. I think Melton is the only pro bowl defensive player he has every drafted in his career.

I don't think you can fault Marinelli for talent evaluation when he was with the Bears. I think that Marinelli just gives the scouts his recommendations and its up to the scouts to find the best talent for the team.

I think Marinelli's role here is the same. He give recommendations to the scout department and its up to them to decide who to pick.

I frankly, am grateful that he is here. Not just because he is such a great coach. Its because he gives a sense of clear direction to where the defense should be and that the FO listens to him. Notice that he places a lot of preference on passrushers. How many of you been dying for many years now on getting this team to draft passrusher or two?

Since taking over as our DC, we have targeted Donald as our fist pick last year and we also had Gregory slated as our number 1 pick this year. Both #1 passrushers in their class. Also, getting Lawrence and Hitchens here can be attributed to what Marinelli wanted. Look how that turned out to be. We were also been able to bring in Hardy here also. You think Garrett would have signed Hardy if Marinelli weren't calling the shots?

All of this took place because Marinelli has the respect of the FO and that they believe he can turn our defense around from worst to first or one of the best defenses in a short amount of time. For the last two years now the FO has focused on making this Marinelli's defense and it seems that they have given him full reigns to mold it as he wishes. I certainly can't think of any other Def. Coordinator that would be getting that type of respect from the FO that he has - not even Rob Ryan. Thus lets be grateful we have finally got ourselves a real def. coordinator that is more than happy to be here and not Tampa Bay.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

If our war room is run properly, Rod Marinelli.....~moment of silence~.....has a very small voice in the room.

But I was thinking this very same thing on day 3 of this draft. Damien Wilson. That's a Marinelli LB. Ryan Russell. Career underachiever scouts would frown on but an assistant coach might feel he's the guy who can get the most out of his measurables. Mark Nzeocha. Another raw athlete a coach can mold. I'm not claiming these are Marinelli driven draft choices, I don't know what goes on in that room, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were.

So when you're watching Darren McFadden starting this season you may have R(G)od to thank for it.

If you recall, when Campo was canned and Big Bill brought in there was a shift toward the scouting department and away from the assistant coaches in terms of talent evaluation, stacking our board and making draft day decisions. This was a good change. Those coaches don't know the players like the scouts do. There needs to be an open communication between the two with the coaches letting the scouts know what types of players they need, but it should always be the scouting department identifying who those players are.

That is exactly what you should be doing in the late rounds bringing in guys with measurable you think your coach can turn into players through good coaching.

 

[Galian Beast]

That is exactly what you should be doing in the late rounds bringing in guys with measurable you think your coach can turn into players through good coaching.

Exactly, examine our latest draft picks after round 4.

Basically all 4 are developmental players. None of them are even meant to provide direct depth this year. Rounds 1-4 though, will probably all get significant playing time, hopefully Green does not.

 

[camelboy]

Don't know about his talent evaluation skill but he seems a draft-them-and-i'll-coach-them type of a coach. No matter who is drafted he will get the max out of them