Maybe Roy William IS the problem

[wileedog]

Coverage skills absolutely. I've never said he was good in coverage. But "the problem?" Which is the premise of the thread based on the title. I don't agree with that even one iota.

"The" problem? No. "The" problem is that since the day Anthony Henry was signed he and Newman have played about 5 or 6 games when both were 100% healthy.

"A" problem? Yes. Temo makes a good point that Wade is going through hoops right now trying to create schemes that minimize his deficiencies. But merely the fact that we have to do that indicates that there is "a" problem.

I agree also that you can't just look at these numbers and decide that Roy is the "worst" cover SS in the league - because we already know from experience that is Keith Davis.

But you can use them to back up what your eyes are telling you - he is perhaps only a few notches above him at best in coverage, and his tackling IMO has slipped badly this year to boot.

BTW, I don't think he was nearly as bad last year as people thought he was (and Temo's numbers support that). But this year he has declined enough to be earning the ripping IMO.

 

[theogt]

But you can use them to back up what your eyes are telling you - he is perhaps only a few notches above him at best in coverage, and his tackling IMO has slipped badly this year to boot.

Make sure you use them to back up that he was the best coverage player on our team last year too, while you're at it.

You can't dismiss a statistic and then use it to back up your point all in the same post. Jebus.

And personally, I think the dime defense with Roy playing the nickel linebacker role is just fantastic. You can call it a problem and call it jumping through hoops, but I love it. For some odd reason I think using our players to the best of their ability is a good thing.

And is it really jumping through hoops when he's done this with other SSs in the past? Or just when he does it with Roy?

 

[Hostile]

Make sure you use them to back up that he was the best coverage player on our team last year too, while you're at it.

You can't dismiss a statistic and then use it to back up your point all in the same post. Jebus.

And personally, I think the dime defense with Roy playing the nickel linebacker role is just fantastic. You can call it a problem and call it jumping through hoops, but I love it. For some odd reason I think using our players to the best of their ability is a good thing.

And is it really jumping through hoops when he's done this with other SSs in the past? Or just when he does it with Roy?

I was going to respond. No need to. That about covers it.

 

[Clove]

What it boils down to folks, we basically have Burnett playing SS for us. (in other words, we have a LB type player trying to play SS)

 

[Hostile]

What it boils down to folks, we basically have Burnett playing SS for us. (in other words, we have a LB type player trying to play SS)

You mean like he played when he first got to Tennessee?

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Roy Williams may be a problem, but Keith Davis isn't the solution.

 

[Clove]

You mean like he played when he first got to Tennessee?

Hey, I don't mind as long as he gets the job done. I think Woodson was a LB too at some point in his career.:

 

[Hostile]

Hey, I don't mind as long as he gets the job done. I think Woodson was a LB too at some point in his career.:

Yes, he was at ASU.

 

[jay cee]

1. Just cuz Roy isn't as good in coverage as quite possibly the greatest cover STRONG safety in NFL history, doesn't mean he sucks.

Can anyone think of a better SS in coverage than Woodson? I know Charlie Waters and Ronnie Lott started as CB's and moved to safety so they probably were pretty good in coverage.

And Lott spent most of his time at free safety I believe.

 

[Rack]

Can anyone think of a better SS in coverage than Woodson? I know Charlie Waters and Ronnie Lott started as CB's and moved to safety so they probably were pretty good in coverage.

And Lott spent most of his time at free safety I believe.

Exactly, that's my point.

People want to say "Well Darren Woodson covered WRs as a SS" as if to say Roy sucks cuz he can't do the same. Woodson is the best man to man cover STRONG safety to ever put a helmet on. It's not fair to say someone sucks cuz they aren't as good as something as a player that was the absolute best at.

That's like saying Leonard Davis sucks cuz he's not Larry Allen.

 

[wileedog]

Make sure you use them to back up that he was the best coverage player on our team last year too, while you're at it.

Wait what? Roy was the best coverage player on our team last year?

I must be misunderstanding you, so please clarify

You can't dismiss a statistic and then use it to back up your point all in the same post. Jebus.

Nor did I. I said the statistic is simply one piece of evidence, usually extremely incomplete as many here have pointed out. However coupled with visual evidence, it becomes stronger.

I said Roy was better last year than those who complained about him thought, and the stats suggest that. Just like they suggest he is worse this year.

But he is not the 'worst in the league', nor was he the 'best on the team' last year as the stats suggest. But he certainly is not very good this year.

And personally, I think the dime defense with Roy playing the nickel linebacker role is just fantastic. You can call it a problem and call it jumping through hoops, but I love it. For some odd reason I think using our players to the best of their ability is a good thing.

And is it really jumping through hoops when he's done this with other SSs in the past? Or just when he does it with Roy?

It is with a top 10 draft pick getting paid more than anyone else currently on the defense. It is with a player who we should be building a defense around, as it looked like we could do after his first couple of seasons in the league, rather than someone we are finding a 'role' for.

WIth a top 8 pick and top contract he should be our next Darren Woodson, not our next George Teague.

 

[theogt]

Wait what? Roy was the best coverage player on our team last year?

I must be misunderstanding you, so please clarify

He had the highest success percentage among our entire defense last season. I'm not saying he was the best defensive back on our team at all. I'm just pointing out why you shouldn't use the stat.

Nor did I. I said the statistic is simply one piece of evidence, usually extremely incomplete as many here have pointed out. However coupled with visual evidence, it becomes stronger.

No, by itself it's completely useless. As in there is no use for it. At all.

It is with a top 10 draft pick getting paid more than anyone else currently on the defense. It is with a player who we should be building a defense around, as it looked like we could do after his first couple of seasons in the league, rather than someone we are find a 'role' for.

WIth a top 8 pick and top contract he should be our next Darren Woodson, not our next George Teague.

None of this even made sense as a reply to my post.

 

[PBJTime]

On a per-pass basis, we're pretty much in the top six in almost every statistic.

Thanks Adam. I just took a quick glance at overall passing defense.

 

[wileedog]

Exactly, that's my point.

People want to say "Well Darren Woodson covered WRs as a SS" as if to say Roy sucks cuz he can't do the same. Woodson is the best man to man cover STRONG safety to ever put a helmet on. It's not fair to say someone sucks cuz they aren't as good as something as a player that was the absolute best at.

That's like saying Leonard Davis sucks cuz he's not Larry Allen.

But I think the frustration for many, myself included, is that he showed the potential those first couple of years to have the same impact as Woodson.

No, never as good in coverage, but certianly he was better near the LOS and at making impact, game changing plays as Woodson ever was.

It just seems like that potential is gone now, and its frustrating to see.

 

[wileedog]

None of this even made sense as a reply to my post.

Because you think that nickel linebacker is a great use for a top 8 pick eating huge chunks of cap space?

 

[theogt]

Because you think that nickel linebacker is a great use for a top 8 pick eating huge chunks of cap space?

Uhh...why is it not? He also plays SS in our base 3-4 and other packages.

 

[CarlAllDay]

Lol one way or another i can tell we all love roy williams here because every week this guy gets at least a 5 page thread all the time.

You know what they say you have reason to worry if no one is talking about you roy has no worries.

I think that roy is right there with the best strong safeties in the league and its pointless to keep bringing up this coverage crap because the way that the cowboys use williams in coverage every strong safety would look bad.

even with terrence newman and henry dallas plays bend but dont break coverage and to me i think roy would be better suited if he can put his hands on a te at the line of scrimage.

Roy gives a lot of plays up underneath just like the rest of the corners and i get pissed everytime i see a 3rd and 6 and henry is 8 yards off the ball and ditto for newman.

Still at the end of the day roy is not really good in coverage and neither is john lynch or rodney harrison, kerry rhodes isnt either(see jets pass defense)
donovan darius, michael lewis, and any other strong safety in the league so please quit it.

good teams hide their strong safeties coverage deficiencies by putting them in the box and making them play the short and intermediate routes.

We make roy and our corners play that terrible so old and out of style "cover 2" scheme.

QB's have caught on to that cover 2 and finds the underneath routes and gaps in the cover 2.

monte kiffin is in tampa and has had the same vets playing in that system for like 7 seasons.

I beleive to get the most out of this system and roy williams we should go man defense and let roy use his strength to jam the TE off the line.

 

[wileedog]

Uhh...why is it not? He also plays SS in our base 3-4 and other packages.

And is not very good at it.

Hence 3 million threads about him.

 

[theogt]

And is not very good at it.

Hence 3 million threads about him.

Sure he is. He's a 5 time pro bowler.

 

[wileedog]

Sure he is. He's a 5 time pro bowler.

I disagree.

Not much more I can say to you on that end. He's at best a league average safety who had the talent to potentially be a HOFer. He doesn't seem interested in such things. He's making the Pro Bowl because there happens to be very few game changing SS's in the NFC right now, and one of them just got killed.

Again, my opinion, you're welcome to yours.