Mayock's by-position top-5 (mostly) rankings

[Avery]

The reason he doesn't have Cannon is because he's not a top five OL on the end. He's going to have to bump inside in the pros to handle speed rushers hence his exclusion.

Look for Cannon to be listed in the top five interior OL on his list later.

 

[acer941]

I think Pouncey or Moffit will be a way better pro Guard then Cannon

 

[newlander]

Ryan Williams, RB, Virginia Tech ray:

Release MB3, trade Choice: NOT because TC can't play but because it's obvious Red doesn't like him and draft this kid in the 3rd round. (if possible)

 

[newlander]

I feel like a DOPE because I bought that hook, line and sinker. Don't know WHAT I was thinking. I live in Michigan and watching Suh wreak havoc is like watching Randy White back in the day...yeah, I just went there. He's just a friggin' wrecking ball. Pleasure to watch.

Yeah he lost me last year when he said McCoy would be a better pro than SUH and SUH would struggle cause he had no moves and McCoy was more disruptive than SUH and then he proceded to rank McCoy ahead os SUh
:bang2:

 

[Manwiththeplan]

One clear example that comes to mind was Darren McFadden.

Who's to say he was wrong on McFadden? He believed that McFadden was over-rated and to a certain extent he was. He said McFadden wasn't worth a top 20 pick and given the value of RBs in the draft, I'd also say he was right there. He also correctly called (atleast at this point) Mendenhall > McFadden

 

[realtick]

Who's to say he was wrong on McFadden? He believed that McFadden was over-rated and to a certain extent he was. He said McFadden wasn't worth a top 20 pick and given the value of RBs in the draft, I'd also say he was right there. He also correctly called (atleast at this point) Mendenhall > McFadden

Darren McFadden is to say Mayock is wrong.

Mayock's biggest criticism of McFadden was that he didn't possess any leg-drive and didn't break tackles.

FWI, Mayock also had Vernon Gholston, Phillip Merling and Leodis McKelvin going in his Top 10.

Now if you say "well, a lot of analysts had Gholston...(Merling, Mckelvin, etc.) in their Top 10..." then that's exactly my point. Folks are positioning Mayock as if he's a cut above the rest and I don't see that he is.

As far as Mendenhall > McFadden is concerned... I like Mendenhall, in fact, that was the RB I wanted Dallas to draft (not knowing we were going to take Choice later in the draft to go along with Felix). I thought Mendenhall projected better has a every-down back than Felix. Keeping in mind we only had one RB under contract (MBIII) going into the draft.

Having said that, Mendenhall has been given the lion's share of opportunities in Pittsburgh. McFadden has battled through injuries and the fact that the Raiders were using a platoon approach to its running game with Michael Bush, Justin Fargas and McFadden.

When McFadden was given more opportunity he produces 223 carries, 5.2 ypc, 1,157 yards, 7 TDs (plus, 47 rec. 507 yards, 10.8 avg, 3 TDs)

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Darren McFadden is to say Mayock is wrong.

Mayock's biggest criticism of McFadden was that he didn't possess any leg-drive and didn't break tackles.

FWI, Mayock also had Vernon Gholston, Phillip Merling and Leodis McKelvin going in his Top 10.

Now if you say "well, a lot of analysts had Gholston...(Merling, Mckelvin, etc.) in their Top 10..." then that's exactly my point. Folks are positioning Mayock as if he's a cut above the rest and I don't see that he is.

As far as Mendenhall > McFadden is concerned... I like Mendenhall, in fact, that was the RB I wanted Dallas to draft (not knowing we were going to take Choice later in the draft to go along with Felix). I thought Mendenhall projected better has a every-down back than Felix. Keeping in mind we only had one RB under contract (MBIII) going into the draft.

Having said that, Mendenhall has been given the lion's share of opportunities in Pittsburgh. McFadden has battled through injuries and the fact that the Raiders were using a platoon approach to its running game with Michael Bush, Justin Fargas and McFadden.

When McFadden was given more opportunity he produces 223 carries, 5.2 ypc, 1,157 yards, 7 TDs (plus, 47 rec. 507 yards, 10.8 avg, 3 TDs)

Vhernon Golston went top 5 and Leodis McKelvin went 11th, so that's not a knock on Mayock. Unless you're in the meetings with these prospects, it's hard to tell if they're the guy that won't care about getting better. Truth is, both had the talent to go top 10 or so and he was right on that.

And while I would agree that Mendenhall has gotten more opportunities, he atleast has made the most of them, which isn't the case with some players. If McFadden has struggled with injuries (part of being a good RB is durability) then Mayock is still right.

 

[realtick]

Vhernon Golston went top 5 and Leodis McKelvin went 11th, so that's not a knock on Mayock. Unless you're in the meetings with these prospects, it's hard to tell if they're the guy that won't care about getting better. Truth is, both had the talent to go top 10 or so and he was right on that.

The point isn't where the named players were drafted contrasted to where Mayock ranked them. The point is that Mayock had guys like Gholston, Merling and McKelvin even ranked in his Top 10.

Most of the top analysts basically have the same list of top players in somewhat of a similiar order. If Mayock is this guru that he's made out to be, why did he completely whiff on these three players?

I'll go on record, I don't believe Marcel Dareus is anywhere near a premier player and I don't project him to be anything special in the NFL. I felt the same thing with Glen Dorsey.

Gholston's issues aren't with his heart or not wanting to get better. His problem is that he's an athlete with a low football IQ that's simply not that talented.

McKelvin got a lot of noteriety from being a talented KR/PR to go in addition with decent coverage skills.

And while I would agree that Mendenhall has gotten more opportunities, he atleast has made the most of them, which isn't the case with some players. If McFadden has struggled with injuries (part of being a good RB is durability) then Mayock is still right.

I think it could be argued McFadden has done more with the opportunities he's been given. Look at the aggregate numbers between the two players:

McFadden - 38 games
440 carries, 2,013 yards, 4.6 YPR, 12 TDs
97 receptions, 1,037 yards, 10.7 YPC, 3 TDs

Mendenhall - 36 games
585 carries, 2,439 yards, 4.2 YPR, 20 TDs
50 receptions, 445 yards, 8.9 YPR, 1 TD

McFadden has played in more games than Mendenhall, so what exactly is Mayock right about again? Mayock's criticism was that McFadden didn't break enough tackles and get tough yardage up the gut because he didn't have a lot of leg-drive.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I think it could be argued McFadden has done more with the opportunities he's been given. Look at the aggregate numbers between the two players:

McFadden - 38 games
440 carries, 2,013 yards, 4.6 YPR, 12 TDs
97 receptions, 1,037 yards, 10.7 YPC, 3 TDs

Mendenhall - 36 games
585 carries, 2,439 yards, 4.2 YPR, 20 TDs
50 receptions, 445 yards, 8.9 YPR, 1 TD

McFadden has played in more games than Mendenhall, so what exactly is Mayock right about again? Mayock's criticism was that McFadden didn't break enough tackles and get tough yardage up the gut because he didn't have a lot of leg-drive.

It seems you're making my argument for me. Mayock never said that McFadden was going to be out of the league in 3 years, just he wasn't worth a top 20 pick and you can't say he was wrong on that. I like McFadden, more than Mendenhall, but I don't see how you can knock someone for predicting Mendenhall > McFadden when no one else was saying that and atleast statistically you can argue that.

 

[rw54]

Mayock would make a good scout which makes him better than McShay and Kiper who are more editor and compiler than scout. I'm not putting those guys down they are picking their stuff up from agents, scouts and front office people, which is valuable. Mayock does have strength and weaknesses however: real good at evaluating QB's, terrible at picking cornerbacks.

 

[realtick]

It seems you're making my argument for me. Mayock never said that McFadden was going to be out of the league in 3 years, just he wasn't worth a top 20 pick and you can't say he was wrong on that. I like McFadden, more than Mendenhall, but I don't see how you can knock someone for predicting Mendenhall > McFadden when no one else was saying that and atleast statistically you can argue that.

I can't say he's wrong about that? Okay, and you cannot say he's right about that either?

Why? Because we're talking about opportunities and production.

McFadden has shown the more opportunities he's given the more productive he is. Last season was McFadden's first with more than 200 carries.

Had McFadden put up a couple of 200+ carry seasons averaging 3.3 YPR or something, then you might have a case.

Mayock's beef was that McFadden didn't possess enough leg-drive and was tackled too often on first-contact. These reasons according to Mayock were the major reasons why he wouldn't have taken McFadden in the Top 20.

Mayock didn't even have McFadden in his Top 10 players (not draft order, but how he ranked his players), but he had guys like Philip Merling, Vernon Gholston and Leodis McKelvin.

That's been my point the whole time; if Mayock is really a cut-above and some guru, then why was he falling in-line with the assesments of lesser credible analysts like McShay and Kiper on guys like Gholston, Merling, etc.

I realize that's a hard question to pin on you, but I think it's valid.

IMO, Mayock hasn't been more on-point with the draft anymore than Kiper & McShay. In this particular draft, the one time he did deviate from the consensus (McFadden), I think he was off-base.

I thought Mayock was off-base then and still do regarding his criticisms of McFadden.

Here is a guy last year that averaged 5.2 YPR. He had just two runs of more than 50+ yards (57 & 51), so it's not as if he skewed his average with a couple of 80+ yard runs. McFadden's also played on of the league's poorest passing offenses. That's a guy who is churning out yards.

Here's the bottomline for me regarding Mayock:

Mike Mayock > Kiper & McShay...as a draft analyst

Why? Because he gives the listener/reader detailed reasons, specifics and information as to why he's come to a conclusion on a particular player.

However, I don't think Mayock is distinguishly better than Kiper or McShay in predicting how player will perform at an NFL level.

 

[realtick]

Mayock would make a good scout which makes him better than McShay and Kiper who are more editor and compiler than scout. I'm not putting those guys down they are picking their stuff up from agents, scouts and front office people, which is valuable.

That's pretty much how I see it.

I'm not dumping on Mayock, I just don't see him as this infallible draft guru at all.

 

[btcutter]

Mayock is a much better scout or analyst than McShay or Kiper. He watches and break down players and forms his own opinion. Can he be wrong?! Of course! So are many scouts!

We have our own opinions too but we are wrong more than we care to admit.

I just like watching Mayock and read his breakdown of the players he rank. It's entertaining but by no mean the ultimate draft bible.

 

[btcutter]

That's pretty much how I see it.

I'm not dumping on Mayock, I just don't see him as this infallible draft guru at all.

Who is? Teams have tons of scouts with access to films and coaches but still miss more often than hits......we can't expect ONE person to figure it all out.

 

[TheCount]

That's pretty much how I see it.

I'm not dumping on Mayock, I just don't see him as this infallible draft guru at all.

I don't think anyone said he was...

 

[DFWJC]

I think he does a fine job at it.

I agree.
For the most part, he's much better than most out there...
but he did miss very badly on Chris Johnson.

I also think this time around he has Robert Quinn too low....but we won't know for a year or two.

Also, as for the Mendy vs DMC argument. They had about equal production this year with DMC getting more combined yards rushing /receiving and Mendy getting 13 TDs to 10.

The numbers for three seasons are even about the same too...with McFadden actually having the slight edge in yards.

Chris Johnson is the one that Mayock missed on so badly in 2008. He basically said thta he if he was lucky he would be a 3rd down back.

 

[realtick]

[youtube]svAX9HbvHfk[/youtube]

Nuff said....jk