Mazi is the least productive 1st round DT in 20 years

Okay, on 4/30/23, can we count

beware_d-ware
ghst187

as saying Mazi will be a colossal bust.

Got it.

Does anyone else want to go on record?

:popcorn:
I’ll be here to own it if I’m wrong. I hope I am.
the real test is a second contract.
 
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Agree. My beef with the pick if blocking was so important they could have gone later in the draft for one. But if he does road grade DE's and LB's that is a big plus; Schultz was frankly embarrassing at times. I do disagree about age being a factor as regards QB. In this day and age where they nearly wear skirts anyway making it to 35 or so is very common. So that is at least 2 contracts. And maturity is a very good thing at that position.
Well what they apparently didn’t want was someone who was a blocker only, and would be a dead giveaway when in the game, which we desperately need to get away from.

The only two that fit the bill based on what I was hearing were Mayer and Schoon. They probably were hoping they could land him later, but there was a run and they didn’t want to risk losing a player they thought they had to have.

I wanted a more ready to play OL, but there’s no way to know for sure how this one will shake out just yet. Not enough to be upset over it anyway.
 
Sorry, but have we drafted Mazi to play DE? or 3-Tech?
Werent we in the top 3 in sacks and pressure% in 2022?
Will Mazi's size allow us to more 3rd and long pass-rush opportunities.
Will Mazi's size require double teaming and create space for other rushers?
Is it more important for the individual's or teams to get sacks?
Do you think DQ likes to scheme up plays around the abilities of the D-Line, freeing up say a Safety?

I couldnt care if his 10m split was timed on a calendar, so long as he stops the run and can, on the odd occasions he's on 3rd down duty, he's just occupying body's creating space for others.
I'm kind of hoping on first down that we do see Mazi at 3-tech and Hankins at 1-tech. See if Quinn can turn his athleticism-power combo into a guy that whips single blocking and collapses the pocket or blows up the backfield. Sort of like Washington having Jonathan Allen and Daron Payne. Payne is more of the blocker magnet, giving Allen a chance to win more one-on-ones. Not saying Mazi is going to be as good as Allen, just that I'd like to see him get some opportunities to couple his athleticism with his strength against single blocking.

I expect our early-down lineup to be Golston/Odighizuwa at 5-tech, Hankins at 1-tech and Mazi at 3-tech (although we might switch Mazi and Hankins if Mazi isn't ready for 3-tech responsibilities. Probably Armstrong and Lawrence as the primary DPRs/"OLBs" in that run-stopping set.

One of the things that always bugged me about Dallas only taking late-round NTs is that those players rarely have the ability to be more than run-stuffers at best, so when they are out there and teams choose to pass, they are liabilities. If Mazi can just collapse the pocket when he's given 1-on-1s that changes the dynamic for teams that choose to pass on first down as well as disrupts the running game.
 
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I don’t care if he goes his whole career without a sack. As long as he is dominating in the run game he’s worth the pick
 
Who is the sure fire Pro Bowler we passed on at #26
Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? I never said there was. But do I think there were players with higher ceiling at more premium positions? Yes, yes I do.
I didn’t trash the pick, and even compared him to a long time solid starter.
 
I don’t care if he goes his whole career without a sack. As long as he is dominating in the run game he’s worth the pick
He can be disruptive by pushing interior back and allow Micah/others to get more sacks. I believe he’s going to be elite vs run and help with push/pressure inside.
 
All we do is hope the elite run D hits and the athleticism helps him turn into an average pass rusher.

Myles Murphy would look nice with a star on his helmet.
 
Like I tend to do, I made this post too long. My apologies in advance.

When I watched Mazi Smith play, I saw his athleticism and how he moves like a guy who is 100 pounds lighter and I expected to see more pressures and TFL’s on his tape. There were some but not as many as I anticipated. When you see a guy who is a great athlete at 330 pounds, you think he should be killing teams.

That the tape wasn’t quite what I thought it should be, and along with Dallas’ perceived lack of commitment to high round DT’s, caused me to lose interest in the prospect and to discontinue my evaluation of him. My lazy scouting told me, “he just doesn’t make as many plays as he should.”

I moved on. However, there are a couple of things that I should have noticed and kept in mind about Mazi:

1. At Michigan, he wasn’t asked to penetrate. For the most part, they wanted him to hold up the OL and two gap at the line of scrimmage. Even the stance they had Mazi using puts him on his heels and takes away some of his explosiveness at the snap. That explosion that he has when allowed to penetrate is what I, personally like to see. It makes me fall in love with a DL and is one of the first things I look for in a DL because that can’t be coached and is extremely difficult for OL to deal with.

Well, that is there for Mazi, as his athleticism shows, but what he was coached to do at Michigan pretty much nullified that. Essentially, they wanted him to use his size and his strength but asked him not to use his explosion and athleticism. That is fine for what they wanted to do at UM, but it certainly didn’t showcase everything that Mazi can do.

In Dallas, Quinn is going to give Mazi responsibility for 1 gap, not the 2 that he had in Michigan. He is going to be coached to fire off at the snap and penetrate, using his excellent explosion/strength to stress the OL… not just his strength like at UM. He will be one hell of a load for 1 OL if they try to single him, which they probably won’t. That kind of guy has been missing in Dallas for I don’t know how long.

That tape will look a lot different than what we watched him do in college. That is what people wanted to see on film and what would excite fans. We just didn’t see a ton of that at UM, but that was because of how they utilized him. Just change the stance alone and you would see a difference in how his explosion looked.

In Dallas, he will help his team mates like Parsons make plays… but he will also be allowed to try to make them himself. Fans like explosion and penetration, and we’ll see a lot more of it from Mazi in Dallas than what he showed at UM.
——————————-
2. Smith is a big guy. Really big. I don’t care how in-shape someone is, if they’re moving around at nearly 330 pounds, it is taxing. I looked up how many snaps per game Michigan had Mazi playing and was shocked to see that he averaged 49 snaps per game. Forty-nine! That is a metric **** ton of snaps for a huge guy like that. Mazi simply had to be fatigued half the time he was out there. Michigan certainly got their money’s worth out of this kid. Most team’s who have a big guy like that will use him 15 - 20 snaps per game, keeping them fresh and able to do what is probably the most taxing job on the field.

In Dallas, Quinn won’t have him playing anywhere near 50 snaps per game. Dallas has a very healthy rotation where guys get plenty of rest so they can give 100% effort on each snap. I guarantee you that if you bring in Mazi after being rested, he will look a lot different than he did at UM in the middle of a long drive.
——————————
The way Dallas will want him to play should absolutely make Smith into a better player. Cutting his snaps alone would probably do that, much less asking him to only worry about 1 gap and to explode into it at the snap. He really should flourish in that role.

Will it be really different in year one? We won’t know until we see it, of course, but every bit of football sense tells us that he should suddenly be showing the penetration and explosion that we wanted to see in his college tape.

Quinn said it on draft day, they’re going to put Mazi in an attacking stance, give him a gap, and let the big guy go to work. I would be really surprised if he doesn’t flourish in that role in a rotation. That is one thing you always get from Quinn’s defense: 100% effort, 100% aggression, going at 100MPH. You get that hyper-athletic big guy doing all of that on fresh legs… he’s going to be a real pain to deal with.

We’ll see how it goes, but I have relatively high expectations for what Mazi brings to the defense. He will be in a perfect role for his abilities. Now he just has to go do it. And I hope he does because the Dallas defense will be a formidable unit if he plays how I expect.
 
Like I tend to do, I made this post too long. My apologies in advance.

When I watched Mazi Smith play, I saw his athleticism and how he moves like a guy who is 100 pounds lighter and I expected to see more pressures and TFL’s on his tape. There were some but not as many as I anticipated. When you see a guy who is a great athlete at 330 pounds, you think he should be killing teams.

That the tape wasn’t quite what I thought it should be, and along with Dallas’ perceived lack of commitment to high round DT’s, caused me to lose interest in the prospect and to discontinue my evaluation of him. My lazy scouting told me, “he just doesn’t make as many plays as he should.”

I moved on. However, there are a couple of things that I should have noticed and kept in mind about Mazi:

1. At Michigan, he wasn’t asked to penetrate. For the most part, they wanted him to hold up the OL and two gap at the line of scrimmage. Even the stance they had Mazi using puts him on his heels and takes away some of his explosiveness at the snap. That explosion that he has when allowed to penetrate is what I, personally like to see. It makes me fall in love with a DL and is one of the first things I look for in a DL because that can’t be coached and is extremely difficult for OL to deal with.

Well, that is there for Mazi, as his athleticism shows, but what he was coached to do at Michigan pretty much nullified that. Essentially, they wanted him to use his size and his strength but asked him not to use his explosion and athleticism. That is fine for what they wanted to do at UM, but it certainly didn’t showcase everything that Mazi can do.

In Dallas, Quinn is going to give Mazi responsibility for 1 gap, not the 2 that he had in Michigan. He is going to be coached to fire off at the snap and penetrate, using his excellent explosion/strength to stress the OL… not just his strength like at UM. He will be one hell of a load for 1 OL if they try to single him, which they probably won’t. That kind of guy has been missing in Dallas for I don’t know how long.

That tape will look a lot different than what we watched him do in college. That is what people wanted to see on film and what would excite fans. We just didn’t see a ton of that at UM, but that was because of how they utilized him. Just change the stance alone and you would see a difference in how his explosion looked.

In Dallas, he will help his team mates like Parsons make plays… but he will also be allowed to try to make them himself. Fans like explosion and penetration, and we’ll see a lot more of it from Mazi in Dallas than what he showed at UM.
——————————-
2. Smith is a big guy. Really big. I don’t care how in-shape someone is, if they’re moving around at nearly 330 pounds, it is taxing. I looked up how many snaps per game Michigan had Mazi playing and was shocked to see that he averaged 49 snaps per game. Forty-nine! That is a metric **** ton of snaps for a huge guy like that. Mazi simply had to be fatigued half the time he was out there. Michigan certainly got their money’s worth out of this kid. Most team’s who have a big guy like that will use him 15 - 20 snaps per game, keeping them fresh and able to do what is probably the most taxing job on the field.

In Dallas, Quinn won’t have him playing anywhere near 50 snaps per game. Dallas has a very healthy rotation where guys get plenty of rest so they can give 100% effort on each snap. I guarantee you that if you bring in Mazi after being rested, he will look a lot different than he did at UM in the middle of a long drive.
——————————
The way Dallas will want him to play should absolutely make Smith into a better player. Cutting his snaps alone would probably do that, much less asking him to only worry about 1 gap and to explode into it at the snap. He really should flourish in that role.

Will it be really different in year one? We won’t know until we see it, of course, but every bit of football sense tells us that he should suddenly be showing the penetration and explosion that we wanted to see in his college tape.

Quinn said it on draft day, they’re going to put Mazi in an attacking stance, give him a gap, and let the big guy go to work. I would be really surprised if he doesn’t flourish in that role in a rotation. That is one thing you always get from Quinn’s defense: 100% effort, 100% aggression, going at 100MPH. You get that hyper-athletic big guy doing all of that on fresh legs… he’s going to be a real pain to deal with.

We’ll see how it goes, but I have relatively high expectations for what Mazi brings to the defense. He will be in a perfect role for his abilities. Now he just has to go do it. And I hope he does because the Dallas defense will be a formidable unit if he plays how I expect.
Dude you are one of the most valued people here. Whether you like the guy or not you give a complete breakdown of the player. Much appreciated. This probably won’t change anyone’s mind, but the amount of snaps that they got out of a 330 lb DL is ridiculous.
 
Like I tend to do, I made this post too long. My apologies in advance.

When I watched Mazi Smith play, I saw his athleticism and how he moves like a guy who is 100 pounds lighter and I expected to see more pressures and TFL’s on his tape. There were some but not as many as I anticipated. When you see a guy who is a great athlete at 330 pounds, you think he should be killing teams.

That the tape wasn’t quite what I thought it should be, and along with Dallas’ perceived lack of commitment to high round DT’s, caused me to lose interest in the prospect and to discontinue my evaluation of him. My lazy scouting told me, “he just doesn’t make as many plays as he should.”

I moved on. However, there are a couple of things that I should have noticed and kept in mind about Mazi:

1. At Michigan, he wasn’t asked to penetrate. For the most part, they wanted him to hold up the OL and two gap at the line of scrimmage. Even the stance they had Mazi using puts him on his heels and takes away some of his explosiveness at the snap. That explosion that he has when allowed to penetrate is what I, personally like to see. It makes me fall in love with a DL and is one of the first things I look for in a DL because that can’t be coached and is extremely difficult for OL to deal with.

Well, that is there for Mazi, as his athleticism shows, but what he was coached to do at Michigan pretty much nullified that. Essentially, they wanted him to use his size and his strength but asked him not to use his explosion and athleticism. That is fine for what they wanted to do at UM, but it certainly didn’t showcase everything that Mazi can do.

In Dallas, Quinn is going to give Mazi responsibility for 1 gap, not the 2 that he had in Michigan. He is going to be coached to fire off at the snap and penetrate, using his excellent explosion/strength to stress the OL… not just his strength like at UM. He will be one hell of a load for 1 OL if they try to single him, which they probably won’t. That kind of guy has been missing in Dallas for I don’t know how long.

That tape will look a lot different than what we watched him do in college. That is what people wanted to see on film and what would excite fans. We just didn’t see a ton of that at UM, but that was because of how they utilized him. Just change the stance alone and you would see a difference in how his explosion looked.

In Dallas, he will help his team mates like Parsons make plays… but he will also be allowed to try to make them himself. Fans like explosion and penetration, and we’ll see a lot more of it from Mazi in Dallas than what he showed at UM.
——————————-
2. Smith is a big guy. Really big. I don’t care how in-shape someone is, if they’re moving around at nearly 330 pounds, it is taxing. I looked up how many snaps per game Michigan had Mazi playing and was shocked to see that he averaged 49 snaps per game. Forty-nine! That is a metric **** ton of snaps for a huge guy like that. Mazi simply had to be fatigued half the time he was out there. Michigan certainly got their money’s worth out of this kid. Most team’s who have a big guy like that will use him 15 - 20 snaps per game, keeping them fresh and able to do what is probably the most taxing job on the field.

In Dallas, Quinn won’t have him playing anywhere near 50 snaps per game. Dallas has a very healthy rotation where guys get plenty of rest so they can give 100% effort on each snap. I guarantee you that if you bring in Mazi after being rested, he will look a lot different than he did at UM in the middle of a long drive.
——————————
The way Dallas will want him to play should absolutely make Smith into a better player. Cutting his snaps alone would probably do that, much less asking him to only worry about 1 gap and to explode into it at the snap. He really should flourish in that role.

Will it be really different in year one? We won’t know until we see it, of course, but every bit of football sense tells us that he should suddenly be showing the penetration and explosion that we wanted to see in his college tape.

Quinn said it on draft day, they’re going to put Mazi in an attacking stance, give him a gap, and let the big guy go to work. I would be really surprised if he doesn’t flourish in that role in a rotation. That is one thing you always get from Quinn’s defense: 100% effort, 100% aggression, going at 100MPH. You get that hyper-athletic big guy doing all of that on fresh legs… he’s going to be a real pain to deal with.

We’ll see how it goes, but I have relatively high expectations for what Mazi brings to the defense. He will be in a perfect role for his abilities. Now he just has to go do it. And I hope he does because the Dallas defense will be a formidable unit if he plays how I expect.
Good stuff Ashtma.

I agree with you per usual, but I guess it still warrants the question do you take that chance in the 1st round hoping he can be pass rush guy? DAL did so we gotta get on board at this point and I’ll be pulling for him.

On a side note - not sure if you remember Maurice Hurst at MICH…but he was a pass rush MONSTER. Granted he was a 3T so maybe the scheme asked differently for him. Such a shame his medicals were troubling as he was such a fun DT prospect.
 
Heck, if you just want to break it down into NT types, we've got

Dexter Lawrence (18 TFLs, 10 sacks)
Vita Vea (15 TFLs, 9.5 sacks)
Kenny Clark (20 TFLs, 6.5 sacks)
Danny Shelton (23.5 TFLs, 10.5 sacks)
Malcolm Brown (16 TFLs, 6.5 sacks)
Star Lolutelai (21.5 TFLs, 7.5 sacks)
Sylvester Williams (20.5 TFLs, 8.5 sacks)
Dontari Poe (21.5 TFLs, 8.5 sacks)
Phil Taylor (9.5 TFLs, 2.5 sacks)
Marcell Dareus (20 TFLs, 11 sacks)
Nick Fairley (27.5 TFLs, 13 sacks)
Dan Williams (25 TFLs, 7 sacks)

and I'm getting tired of copying these. That takes you back to 2010.

Those are your big-*** stuffers who aren't expected to have college production, because they're "freeing up teammates". And only two of them had fewer than 15 TFLs and less than 6 sacks. Mazi Smith and Phil Taylor.

We are deep into outlier territory here.
Where does he rank in qb pressures vs these guys. Thank you for your work. It is good work.
 
Like I tend to do, I made this post too long. My apologies in advance.

When I watched Mazi Smith play, I saw his athleticism and how he moves like a guy who is 100 pounds lighter and I expected to see more pressures and TFL’s on his tape. There were some but not as many as I anticipated. When you see a guy who is a great athlete at 330 pounds, you think he should be killing teams.

That the tape wasn’t quite what I thought it should be, and along with Dallas’ perceived lack of commitment to high round DT’s, caused me to lose interest in the prospect and to discontinue my evaluation of him. My lazy scouting told me, “he just doesn’t make as many plays as he should.”

I moved on. However, there are a couple of things that I should have noticed and kept in mind about Mazi:

1. At Michigan, he wasn’t asked to penetrate. For the most part, they wanted him to hold up the OL and two gap at the line of scrimmage. Even the stance they had Mazi using puts him on his heels and takes away some of his explosiveness at the snap. That explosion that he has when allowed to penetrate is what I, personally like to see. It makes me fall in love with a DL and is one of the first things I look for in a DL because that can’t be coached and is extremely difficult for OL to deal with.

Well, that is there for Mazi, as his athleticism shows, but what he was coached to do at Michigan pretty much nullified that. Essentially, they wanted him to use his size and his strength but asked him not to use his explosion and athleticism. That is fine for what they wanted to do at UM, but it certainly didn’t showcase everything that Mazi can do.

In Dallas, Quinn is going to give Mazi responsibility for 1 gap, not the 2 that he had in Michigan. He is going to be coached to fire off at the snap and penetrate, using his excellent explosion/strength to stress the OL… not just his strength like at UM. He will be one hell of a load for 1 OL if they try to single him, which they probably won’t. That kind of guy has been missing in Dallas for I don’t know how long.

That tape will look a lot different than what we watched him do in college. That is what people wanted to see on film and what would excite fans. We just didn’t see a ton of that at UM, but that was because of how they utilized him. Just change the stance alone and you would see a difference in how his explosion looked.

In Dallas, he will help his team mates like Parsons make plays… but he will also be allowed to try to make them himself. Fans like explosion and penetration, and we’ll see a lot more of it from Mazi in Dallas than what he showed at UM.
——————————-
2. Smith is a big guy. Really big. I don’t care how in-shape someone is, if they’re moving around at nearly 330 pounds, it is taxing. I looked up how many snaps per game Michigan had Mazi playing and was shocked to see that he averaged 49 snaps per game. Forty-nine! That is a metric **** ton of snaps for a huge guy like that. Mazi simply had to be fatigued half the time he was out there. Michigan certainly got their money’s worth out of this kid. Most team’s who have a big guy like that will use him 15 - 20 snaps per game, keeping them fresh and able to do what is probably the most taxing job on the field.

In Dallas, Quinn won’t have him playing anywhere near 50 snaps per game. Dallas has a very healthy rotation where guys get plenty of rest so they can give 100% effort on each snap. I guarantee you that if you bring in Mazi after being rested, he will look a lot different than he did at UM in the middle of a long drive.
——————————
The way Dallas will want him to play should absolutely make Smith into a better player. Cutting his snaps alone would probably do that, much less asking him to only worry about 1 gap and to explode into it at the snap. He really should flourish in that role.

Will it be really different in year one? We won’t know until we see it, of course, but every bit of football sense tells us that he should suddenly be showing the penetration and explosion that we wanted to see in his college tape.

Quinn said it on draft day, they’re going to put Mazi in an attacking stance, give him a gap, and let the big guy go to work. I would be really surprised if he doesn’t flourish in that role in a rotation. That is one thing you always get from Quinn’s defense: 100% effort, 100% aggression, going at 100MPH. You get that hyper-athletic big guy doing all of that on fresh legs… he’s going to be a real pain to deal with.

We’ll see how it goes, but I have relatively high expectations for what Mazi brings to the defense. He will be in a perfect role for his abilities. Now he just has to go do it. And I hope he does because the Dallas defense will be a formidable unit if he plays how I expect.
Excellent stuff, I was very excited with this pick. How he was used in college is not how he will be used in Dallas. This kid will bring the defense up a notch.
 
Couldn't find a database so I had to hand-check this.

Anyway, there's been 63 DTs drafted 1st round since 2003, and none of them have had backfield production as poor as Mazi Smith. The dude had a career 6 TFLs and 0.5 sacks.

The only other guys in that zip code are

-Arik Armstead (5.5 TFLs, 2.5 sacks)
-Michael Brockers (11 TFLs, 2 sacks)
-Phil Taylor (9.5 TFLs, 2.5 sacks)
-Justin Harrell (9 TFLs, 2.5 sacks)
-John McCargo (9 TFLs, 0.5 sacks).

If we're wanting a NT, I would be a little nervous.

Here's the list I was going off of, feel free to fact check me.

https://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions-round/dt
Vince Wilfork types should be your comparison group. We have pass rush. We don’t have run defense and control of the middle of the line. It’s why we traded for Hankins and we definitely need another guy like this.

Wilfork made the Patriots defense work for decade. Our run defense will be far improved and our linebackers will have more TFL because the OL can’t get free to block them. Most of these NT types have zero sack potential so the fact that we got one who is a classic NT and has potential should be considered a big win.
 
Couldn't find a database so I had to hand-check this.

Anyway, there's been 63 DTs drafted 1st round since 2003, and none of them have had backfield production as poor as Mazi Smith. The dude had a career 6 TFLs and 0.5 sacks.

The only other guys in that zip code are

-Arik Armstead (5.5 TFLs, 2.5 sacks)
-Michael Brockers (11 TFLs, 2 sacks)
-Phil Taylor (9.5 TFLs, 2.5 sacks)
-Justin Harrell (9 TFLs, 2.5 sacks)
-John McCargo (9 TFLs, 0.5 sacks).

If we're wanting a NT, I would be a little nervous.

Here's the list I was going off of, feel free to fact check me.

https://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions-round/dt
Kiper called him the best run stropping DT in this entire class.
 
Good stuff Ashtma.

I agree with you per usual, but I guess it still warrants the question do you take that chance in the 1st round hoping he can be pass rush guy? DAL did so we gotta get on board at this point and I’ll be pulling for him.

On a side note - not sure if you remember Maurice Hurst at MICH…but he was a pass rush MONSTER. Granted he was a 3T so maybe the scheme asked differently for him. Such a shame his medicals were troubling as he was such a fun DT prospect.
Yeah, I remember Hurst. Being a 3T they did play him completely different than what Smith does. For fans, a 3T is just so much more exciting than a 1/0. Of course what the 1T does is very important and having a good player there can make a big difference. Dallas has needed a real player there for a long, long time.

However, much of what that player does goes unnoticed to most casual fans, so it just isn’t that exciting… but boy, could it really help the Dallas defense. I expect Quinn No have a plan for Mazi, and I do expect the defense to improve significantly this season. The more I think about it, the more I understand what exactly had Quinn (and Micah) so excited about the addition.

Finally. A beast in the middle… and yeah, I do think he will flash a lot more in Quinn’s scheme. It has me ready for camp.
 
Dude you are one of the most valued people here. Whether you like the guy or not you give a complete breakdown of the player. Much appreciated. This probably won’t change anyone’s mind, but the amount of snaps that they got out of a 330 lb DL is ridiculous.
It is crazy for him to have played roughly 50 snaps per game. Truly. That impresses me a whole lot. Do you know how tired that guy must’ve been?

It is impressive.
 
our run defense improved the moment he got off the bus at the star.
he'll be an all-pro.
watch.
 
It is crazy for him to have played roughly 50 snaps per game. Truly. That impresses me a whole lot. Do you know how tired that guy must’ve been?

It is impressive.
If I’m not mistaken I think he played 60 snaps or some ridiculous # against Ohio State.
 

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