McCarthy Says Dez Didn’t Catch It?

[sjmike]

I still believe it was a catch, even by the 2016 rule book...………….but, whatever.

There were still 4 min left in the game, plenty of time for Aaron Rogers.

We would have still lost.

Yeah, I remember thinking that it wouldn't have mattered anyway because Rogers was marching up and down the field on us and would have scored again to win the game. It's just ashame that that athletic play that Dez made didn't count.

 

[HungryLion]

Lol

It’s the true answer.

It wasn’t a catch, due to a technicality.

Should have been a catch and would be a catch under the revised rules when the NFL fixed that technicality.

 

[InTheZone]

You’re very observant, you get a gold star.

O rly?

 

[MarcusRock]

Dez took two steps and then DIVED to try and reach the end zone. By that point, he became a runner.

See, you just blew past what I wrote about the mechanics of the rule. The mechanics are once it's determined you're going to the ground, those rules apply, i.e. the ball can't touch the ground and then come loose. Did it?

And there was no dive. There was intention to dive, or lunge as they say, but no execution. So when he's falling the whole way, going to the ground applies and takes precedence over the regular catch rule, which is for an upright receiver, not one who makes a catch and then lands on the ground (see paragraph above). Those are the mechanics. They've changed now but this is what they were then.

 

[khiladi]

See, you just blew past what I wrote about the mechanics of the rule. The mechanics are once it's determined you're going to the ground, those rules apply, i.e. the ball can't touch the ground and then come loose. Did it?

And there was no dive. There was intention to dive, or lunge as they say, but no execution. So when he's falling the whole way, going to the ground applies and takes precedence over the regular catch rule, which is for an upright receiver, not one who makes a catch and then lands on the ground (see paragraph above). Those are the mechanics. They've changed now but this is what they were then.

no, I didn’t blow past what you said and there aren’t a bunch of subset rules in the 2014 rule book.

Dez was a runner by that point and yes, he dived forward to try and close the plane of the end zone like a RB does. That’s why he pushed off his landing foot and extended his arm out.

they’ve changed the rules twice to cover for their nonsense in 2014.

 

[MarcusRock]

no, I didn’t blow past what you said and there aren’t a bunch of subset rules in the 2014 rule book.

It's about that time, isn't it?

The catch rules in their entirety from the 2014 Rulebook:

Article 3 Completed or Intercepted Pass. A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is
complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and
b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and
c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act
common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an
opponent, etc.).
​

Note 1: It is not necessary that he commit such an act, provided that he maintains control of the ball long enough to do so.

Note 2: If a player has control of the ball, a slight movement of the ball will not be considered a loss of possession. He must
lose control of the ball in order to rule that there has been a loss of possession.

If the player loses the ball while simultaneously touching both feet or any part of his body to the ground, it is not a catch.

Item 1: Player Going to the Ground. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact
by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field
of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass
is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

Item 2: Sideline Catches. If a player goes to the ground out-of-bounds (with or without contact by an opponent) in the
process of making a catch at the sideline, he must maintain complete and continuous control of the ball throughout the
process of contacting the ground, or the pass is incomplete.

Item 3: End Zone Catches. The requirements for a catch in the end zone are the same as the requirements for a catch in
the field of play.
​

Note: In the field of play, if a catch of a forward pass has been completed, after which contact by a defender causes the ball to
become loose before the runner is down by contact, it is a fumble, and the ball remains alive. In the end zone, the same action
is a touchdown, since the receiver completed the catch beyond the goal line prior to the loss of possession, and the ball is
dead when the catch is completed.

Item 4: Ball Touches Ground. If the ball touches the ground after the player secures control of it, it is a catch, provided
that the player continues to maintain control.

Item 5: Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the
ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently
gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing
team become eligible to catch the loose ball.

Item 6: Carried Out of Bounds. If a player, who is in possession of the ball, is held up and carried out of bounds by an
opponent before both feet or any part of his body other than his hands touches the ground inbounds, it is a completed or
intercepted pass.​

So you see, there are no less than 6 different scenarios that when they occur, take precedence over the main catch rule, which is for when a player is upright. Going to the ground is the very first one. The precedence mechanic is very clear, especially in Item 6 where regular catch rules can't be performed, so that rule determines what makes it a catch instead. Same for going to the ground where you then have to hold on to the ball after hitting the ground and the ball can't touch the ground. Heck, Dez is dead in the water according to Item 4 too. Since you mentioned time was added in later as a requirement, can you not see time as a factor in glaring fashion in the main catch rule?

But you will race past this too and continue screaming that he wasn't going to the ground. That's what all catch theorists have to do because if they admit Dez was going to the ground the whole way like he was, they know it was a correct reversal of the call.

 

[khiladi]

It's about that time, isn't it?

The catch rules in their entirety from the 2014 Rulebook:

Article 3 Completed or Intercepted Pass. A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is
complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and
b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and
c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act
common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an
opponent, etc.).
​

Note 1: It is not necessary that he commit such an act, provided that he maintains control of the ball long enough to do so.

Note 2: If a player has control of the ball, a slight movement of the ball will not be considered a loss of possession. He must
lose control of the ball in order to rule that there has been a loss of possession.

If the player loses the ball while simultaneously touching both feet or any part of his body to the ground, it is not a catch.

Item 1: Player Going to the Ground. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact
by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field
of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass
is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

Item 2: Sideline Catches. If a player goes to the ground out-of-bounds (with or without contact by an opponent) in the
process of making a catch at the sideline, he must maintain complete and continuous control of the ball throughout the
process of contacting the ground, or the pass is incomplete.

Item 3: End Zone Catches. The requirements for a catch in the end zone are the same as the requirements for a catch in
the field of play.​

Note: In the field of play, if a catch of a forward pass has been completed, after which contact by a defender causes the ball to
become loose before the runner is down by contact, it is a fumble, and the ball remains alive. In the end zone, the same action
is a touchdown, since the receiver completed the catch beyond the goal line prior to the loss of possession, and the ball is
dead when the catch is completed.

Item 4: Ball Touches Ground. If the ball touches the ground after the player secures control of it, it is a catch, provided
that the player continues to maintain control.

Item 5: Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the
ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently
gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing
team become eligible to catch the loose ball.

Item 6: Carried Out of Bounds. If a player, who is in possession of the ball, is held up and carried out of bounds by an
opponent before both feet or any part of his body other than his hands touches the ground inbounds, it is a completed or
intercepted pass.​

So you see, there are no less than 6 different scenarios that when they occur, take precedence over the main catch rule, which is for when a player is upright. Going to the ground is the very first one. The precedence mechanic is very clear, especially in Item 6 where regular catch rules can't be performed, so that rule determines what makes it a catch instead. Same for going to the ground where you then have to hold on to the ball after hitting the ground and the ball can't touch the ground. Heck, Dez is dead in the water according to Item 4 too.

But you will race past this too and continue screaming that he wasn't going to the ground. That's what all catch theorists have to do because if they admit Dez was going to the ground the whole way like he was, they know it was a correct reversal of the call.

Yes, I actually looked at the 2014 NFL rules, so I don’t need you to post them and not a single one has to do with Dez being a runner at that point, which is why you tried to deny he dived for the goal line and extended his arm trying to cross the plane.

Mike Pereira flipped his story. He first said Dez didn’t stretch enough when it first happened and he was head of officiating.

"If you're going to the ground, you have to prove that you have the ball long enough to perform an act common to the game and do so," said Pereira. "And part of that is stretching all the way out and to me even though he moved the ball a little bit forward, they are not going to consider that a football act."

then he changed to what you are claiming in 2017, which is completely asinine, because a dive and stretch to get extra yardage to cross the plane of a TD is a complete football move. That’s why Pereira at first used the terminology of “an act common to the game” and his original claim was that even stretching all the way out is an act common to the game, but he didn’t think it was far enough to consider it a football act.

And now in 2018, they changed it again to what Pereira said it meant in his 2015 explanation.

 

[aria]

O rly?

Fo realz.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

It was a question that needed to be asked.

McCarthy said:

"It was a great catch, I can say now. It wasn't then - technically."

That's all we needed to know!

I want Garrett back......NOW!!!!!

 

[StevenOtero]

I'm glad he said it.

Time to let that crap go.

 

[G2]

It was too a catch, he made three steps and two football moves. Dez was ripped off big time!

You're not in possession of the facts. Sorry, it just wasn't at the time. They changed the rule because of it.

 

[HeavyBarrel]

That game was lost when Murray fumbled.

 

[Pantone282C]

It’s the one sliver of hope we had in the past 25 years. Let us have our moment.

 

[G2]

Yes, I actually looked at the 2014 NFL rules, so I don’t need you to post them and not a single one has to do with Dez being a runner at that point, which is why you tried to deny he dived for the goal line and extended his arm trying to cross the plane.

Mike Pereira flipped his story. He first said Dez didn’t stretch enough when it first happened and he was head of officiating.



then he changed to what you are claiming in 2017, which is completely asinine, because a dive and stretch to get extra yardage to cross the plane of a TD is a complete football move. That’s why Pereira at first used the terminology of “an act common to the game” and his original claim was that even stretching all the way out is an act common to the game, but he didn’t think it was far enough to consider it a football act.

And now in 2018, they changed it again to what Pereira said it meant in his 2015 explanation.

The rule wouldn't have been changed if it were a catch and simply called wrong. The NFL would have announced it was a bad call and left the rule alone.

Not a catch at the time.

 

[Aviano90]

That game was lost when Murray fumbled.

The game was lost when we had complete control of the game at the end of the first half and Garrett called a time out after an obvious bad spot allowing the officials to overrun the call during the break. Romo then fumbles the 3rd down snap, Bailey misses the FG, defense gives up a deep pass allowing GB to score before half.

Just typical Cowboys.

 

[khiladi]

The rule wouldn't have been changed if it were a catch and simply called wrong. The NFL would have announced it was a bad call and left the rule alone.

Not a catch at the time.

Your opinion is worthless in light of what I quoted, particularly from Pereira’s flip-flopping.

And 2018 happened, because the NFL screwed the Steelers and Jesse Jones, when he caught it in 2017, which ‘coincidentally’ gave the Patriots home field advantage through the playoffs, if I remember correctly. They just pretended to make it a catch via 2018 rules when it was a catch by every stretch of the word already.

 

[MarcusRock]

Yes, I actually looked at the 2014 NFL rules, so I don’t need you to post them and not a single one has to do with Dez being a runner at that point, which is why you tried to deny he dived for the goal line and extended his arm trying to cross the plane.

Mike Pereira flipped his story. He first said Dez didn’t stretch enough when it first happened and he was head of officiating.



then he changed to what you are claiming in 2017, which is completely asinine, because a dive and stretch to get extra yardage to cross the plane of a TD is a complete football move. That’s why Pereira at first used the terminology of “an act common to the game” and his original claim was that even stretching all the way out is an act common to the game, but he didn’t think it was far enough to consider it a football act.

And now in 2018, they changed it again to what Pereira said it meant in his 2015 explanation.

You are so thoroughly confused it's almost funny. First off, I didn't deny Dez tried to lunge for the end zone. He did try. He just didn't execute, which is what Pereira said the day of the broadcast and beyond. Second, Pereira was not the head of officiating at any time during or after this play. He was working for Fox. Again, you ignore the mechanic of the rule, which is once it's determined a player is going to the ground, they simply need to maintain control of the ball after hitting the ground and the ball can't hit the ground either. None of that was done.

The "an act common to the game" is taken word for word from the rules I posted which is what he was quoting. And a lunge is indeed a football move, which is why not just Pereira said that Dez needed to execute better. He said they weren't going to consider that a full lunge and they didn't. I get that y'all want to see CONSPIRACY! to then fall to the lazy "we wuz robbed" defense so you don't have to know the rules, but they are what they are. He was going to the ground the whole way, so those rules applied. Hold on to the ball. He didn't.

By the way, THIS is a proper lunge. You saying Dez did something even close to this with the ball? Not even close.

 

[khiladi]

You are so thoroughly confused it's almost funny. First off, I didn't deny Dez tried to lunge for the end zone. He did try. He just didn't execute, which is what Pereira said the day of the broadcast and beyond. Second, Pereira was not the head of officiating at any time during or after this play. He was working for Fox. Again, you ignore the mechanic of the rule, which is once it's determined a player is going to the ground, they simply need to maintain control of the ball after hitting the ground and the ball can't hit the ground either. None of that was done.

The "an act common to the game" is taken word for word from the rules I posted which is what he was quoting. And a lunge is indeed a football move, which is why not just Pereira said that Dez needed to execute better. He said they weren't going to consider that a full lunge and they didn't. I get that y'all want to see CONSPIRACY! to then fall to the lazy "we wuz robbed" defense so you don't have to know the rules, but they are what they are. He was going to the ground the whole way, so those rules applied. Hold onto the ball. He didn't.

By the way, THIS is a proper lunge. You saying Dez did something even close to this with the ball? Not even close.

So now, you are basically disputing whether it was a lunge or not.

Thanks for proving my point, but of course you are going to continue to spin, because this whole time you were yapping about him going to the ground and maintaining possession “prioritized everything”.

Again, Mike Pereira himself stated explicitly what I said, that a football move has to be made and one can do it while ‘still falling’, meaning ‘going to the ground’ doesn’t prioritize everything. His contention was that, while Dez did stretch, he didn’t stretch enough period. Then he flip flopped in 2017.

Also, you do realize the review is in slow motion right? Why not post the Dez slow motion shot, you know the one they used for the replays?

https://giphy.com/gifs/nfl-dallas-cowboys-network-uDOdAiuAfq5IA

 

[JoeKing]

I liked it when Jerry leaned forward to talk to Stephen and then said, "the refs talk too much". This was prompted by Big Mike explaining before he challenged, he asked Steratore a question, based on that answer, he threw the red flag.

 

[MarcusRock]

So now, you are basically disputing whether it was a lunge now.. thanks for proving my point..

I'm not disputing anything about a lunge. You brought it up and I'm telling you why you're wrong. But I'm using the rules, not some "feeling" which is what you're using. So now you want to exit the discussion by not answering my question so you don't have to admit that Dez' attempt looks nothing like a proper lunge, which confirms what Pereira said the day of the game, lol. Nice try, buddy.

Still trying to see how you're creating the idea that Pereira flip-flopped. He quoted the rule the day of the game and said they weren't going to consider Dez as an upright runner who made a football move and then subsequently explains the rule that applies instead: going to the ground. You can't go there because Dez is dead when you look at that. So, after you denied subset rules which I then showed you existed, what are you left with? Deny, deny, deny, that's what.