McQeary Testifies...

[AbeBeta]

Stupid comparison considering we are talking about administration. You obviously don't understand what has happened.

You clearly have zero understanding of university administration. I deal with those people every single day. I can tell you that not a single person on my campus would identify the sort of person that you call the "Head of the Police" as someone who you go to with a report of a crime. The person you call the "Head" is in charge of the budget for what is otherwise an independent unit. He is in charge of communication various reports regarding staffing and funding needs to those above him. He doesn't oversee hiring, firing, or police activity. That's a pretty standard structure.

 

[AbeBeta]

The fault in this comment is you are comparing routine maintainance problems and insurance questions with a serious criminal act. If someone calls Schults about an air conditioning issue it would be understandable if he passed the buck to those who handle that. Child molestation is a little different, don't you think?

He's not trained in law enforcement. He has no idea if something is a crime or not. That's not his expertise. How can he be the appropriate contact if he is not a member of the university police?

 

[Stautner]

You clearly have zero understanding of university administration. I deal with those people every single day. I can tell you that not a single person on my campus would identify the sort of person that you call the "Head of the Police" as someone who you go to with a report of a crime. The person you call the "Head" is in charge of the budget for what is otherwise an independent unit. He is in charge of communication various reports regarding staffing and funding needs to those above him. He doesn't oversee hiring, firing, or police activity. That's a pretty standard structure.

I would think it fairly common that with an after the fact report of illegal activity on campus a campus employee would go to the administration, who would then enlist the campus police, and/or the local police to investigate. I would think that would be standard with any organization, be it a college or a large corporation. For example, the head of IBM would like to be brought in on an after the fact internal criminal matter before it goes to the police.

Of course if the criminal act were in progress that would be different. In that case the witness should contact the authorities then and there - whether campus or local police - so that the criminal act can be stopped, but that's not what happened with Penn State.

I see no problem at all with the reporting process up til the point the administration buried it. Where Paterno fell short was in not following up after reporting it.

 

[AbeBeta]

I would think it fairly common that with an after the fact report of illegal activity on campus a campus employee would go to the administration, who would then enlist the campus police, and/or the local police to investigate. I would think that would be standard with any organization, be it a college or a large corporation. For example, the head of IBM would like to be brought in on an after the fact internal criminal matter before it goes to the police.

Of course if the criminal act were in progress that would be different. In that case the witness should contact the authorities then and there - whether campus or local police - so that the criminal act can be stopped, but that's not what happened with Penn State.

I see no problem at all with the reporting process up til the point the administration buried it. Where Paterno fell short was in not following up after reporting it.

Someone might certainly go to someone they trust first. obviously that is why McQuery went to Paterno. That he was not referred to the campus police to give a full report is ridiculous. Equally ridiculous is the suggestion that he really did go to the police because the paper pushing suit who oversees their budget was notified.

 

[Stautner]

He's not trained in law enforcement. He has no idea if something is a crime or not. That's not his expertise. How can he be the appropriate contact if he is not a member of the university police?

Really? An adult male naked and engaged in sexual contact with a child and he didn't know if that was a crime?

What you aren't getting is that when it is reported to him it's not with the idea that he is going to conduct the investigation himself, it's with the idea that the administration is the top authority at the school, and as such they need to be aware of what happened and initiate the appropriate action, including engaging the appropriate authorities to look into the matter.

Again, we aren't talking about trying to stop an act as it is occurring. If that were the case the police (campus and/or local) should have been called. McQueary should have done that. But the reporting was after the fact, and it is wholly understandable that in that situation a university employee - a representative of the university - would deem it appropriate that the administration initiate the proper action rather than to act independent of the school.

 

[Stautner]

Someone might certainly go to someone they trust first. obviously that is why McQuery went to Paterno. That he was not referred to the campus police to give a full report is ridiculous. Equally ridiculous is the suggestion that he really did go to the police because the paper pushing suit who oversees their budget was notified.

I agree that it's a little misleading to say he went to the police, but he did go to the people that would have reasonably been expected to initiate the appropriate actions to have the matter looked into properly. I have no problem with Paterno for that. Again, my problem with Paterno is for not following up and making it his business to understand what happened after he reported it.

 

[AbeBeta]

Really? An adult male naked and engaged in sexual contact with a child and he didn't know if that was a crime?

What you aren't getting is that when it is reported to him it's not with the idea that he is going to conduct the investigation himself, it's with the idea that the administration is the top authority at the school, and as such they need to be aware of what happened and initiate the appropriate action, including engaging the appropriate authorities to look into the matter.

Again, we aren't talking about trying to stop an act as it is occurring. If that were the case the police (campus and/or local) should have been called. McQueary should have done that. But the reporting was after the fact, and it is wholly understandable that in that situation a university employee - a representative of the university - would deem it appropriate that the administration initiate the proper action rather than to act independent of the school.

McQuery said plainly that he did not use terms like **** sex out of respect for Paterno. Someone who isn't trained in law enforcement might not understand what is or what is not molestation. IIRC, you made that point to someone earlier in the thread. Further, someone not trained in enforcement or the law may not understand that even if "consensual," it would still be illegal as a minor cannot consent.

The vast majority of reporting of crimes is after the fact, yet most people go to the police.

 

[AbeBeta]

I agree that it's a little misleading to say he went to the police, but he did go to the people that would have reasonably been expected to initiate the appropriate actions to have the matter looked into properly. I have no problem with Paterno for that. Again, my problem with Paterno is for not following up and making it his business to understand what happened after he reported it.

It is misleading, yes. But worse than that it absolves McQuery of much of the blame he should take here. Other kids got molested because he didn't follow through.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

You do exactly that when you say

You are giving McQuery a pass because he went to someone who was not a law enforcement officer. It is on Schultz? Sure. But McQuery has a moral obligation to follow through if he sees that actions aren't taken. You excuse him because he spoke to someone who no one with half a brain in their head would think was the right person to take a criminal complaint to.

Once again, you aren't really reading my replies. I am not even talking about McQueary. You are correct in saying he had a moral responisbility. IMO he had a responsibility to kick Sandusky's arse at that very moment. As far as I'm concerned McQueary created this mess by not going to the cops, any of them, campus or local, to start with. I have ZERO support for him.

My point is with Paterno. Who was given the information second hand and watered down. He went to HIS boss as well as the Schultz who was indeed, whether you want to admit it or not, has the ultimate responsibility over the campus police. My only point in all this was from Paterno's perspective, not McQueary's.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

You clearly have zero understanding of university administration. I deal with those people every single day. I can tell you that not a single person on my campus would identify the sort of person that you call the "Head of the Police" as someone who you go to with a report of a crime. The person you call the "Head" is in charge of the budget for what is otherwise an independent unit. He is in charge of communication various reports regarding staffing and funding needs to those above him. He doesn't oversee hiring, firing, or police activity. That's a pretty standard structure.

Except for the fact that since it does fall under his auspice. And with that he should have been the one, at least at that point in the game, to do as he said he would do, which was to have them investigate.

 

[Stautner]

McQuery said plainly that he did not use terms like **** sex out of respect for Paterno. Someone who isn't trained in law enforcement might not understand what is or what is not molestation. IIRC, you made that point to someone earlier in the thread. Further, someone not trained in enforcement or the law may not understand that even if "consensual," it would still be illegal as a minor cannot consent.

The vast majority of reporting of crimes is after the fact, yet most people go to the police.

So, you think there are actually intelligent adults in this country that aren't aware that sexual contact between an adult and a 10 year cannot be consensual under the law? You think the administration is aware that people under the age of 21 can't drink, yet they aren't aware that a 10 year old can't have consensual sex with an adult?

Sorry, but I have to say that's a very weak argument. There isn't a shred of a doubt in my mind that McQueary, Paterno, the AD and the administration were all aware that Sandusky couldn't have consensual sex with a 10 year old, and it didn't have to be graphically described as anal sex for them to know that.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

He's not trained in law enforcement. He has no idea if something is a crime or not. That's not his expertise. How can he be the appropriate contact if he is not a member of the university police?

So this guy who is given so much responsibility doesn't know if child molestation is a crime??? Really? geez.

 

[Stautner]

It is misleading, yes. But worse than that it absolves McQuery of much of the blame he should take here. Other kids got molested because he didn't follow through.

I thought you were more referring to Paterno, but I have to agree with you on McQueary. I will say that I still don't have a problem that McQueary first allowed it to flow through the administration, but he is the one that actually saw something, and once he realized the administration wasn't following through he should have gone directly to the police. I can't imagine having that image of Sandusky molesting the little boy in his head and letting the administration bury it. I think Paterno should have followed up as well, but he didn't actually see anything so I consider McQueary to be the much bigger culprit.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

McQuery said plainly that he did not use terms like **** sex out of respect for Paterno. Someone who isn't trained in law enforcement might not understand what is or what is not molestation. IIRC, you made that point to someone earlier in the thread. Further, someone not trained in enforcement or the law may not understand that even if "consensual," it would still be illegal as a minor cannot consent.

The vast majority of reporting of crimes is after the fact, yet most people go to the police.

You have got to be kidding me. So you have to be trained in the law to know what child molestation is? Well, McQueary obviously thought is was a violation of the law since he went to someone about it. He just decided to call his dad on the phone about it later and ask him about it. BEFORE he ever went to Paterno. This is at the feet of McQueary.

 

[AbeBeta]

You have got to be kidding me. So you have to be trained in the law to know what child molestation is? Well, McQueary obviously thought is was a violation of the law since he went to someone about it. He just decided to call his dad on the phone about it later and ask him about it. BEFORE he ever went to Paterno. This is at the feet of McQueary.

Yeah, actually you do. People in this thread have clearly indicated that they thought the definition required penetration. So obviously, not everyone knows what molestation is.

You honestly think the bar for calling your dad or go to your coach is that a criminal offense occurred? For many young men, their parents and coach are sources for advice on many issues far less extreme.

I really have to thank you Cajun. This discussion 100% clarifies how so many altar boys got abused for so many years.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Yeah, actually you do. People in this thread have clearly indicated that they thought the definition required penetration. So obviously, not everyone knows what molestation is.

You honestly think the bar for calling your dad or go to your coach is that a criminal offense occurred? For many young men, their parents and coach are sources for advice on many issues far less extreme.

I really have to thank you Cajun. This discussion 100% clarifies how so many altar boys got abused for so many years.

Have you completed your high school education yet? If so go and see if your parents can get a refund on their taxes. I have never once said that McQueary was right in going to Paterno, his dad or anyone else. As a matter of fact, I further said it is absurd that you think that you need to be trained in law to know what child molestation is.

Frankly, with your thinking, that is why so many kids got molested in the Catholic church. You seem to think you have to have some law degree to know if it is against the law.

You are making yourself look so silly in this thread.

To clarify my position...

McQueary was a moron for
1. Not beating the hell out of Sandusky on the spot and taking the boy to the hospital.
2. Not going to at least the Campus police and further the local police.
3. Not being a man to confront Paterno with the whole picture to convey the seriousness of what he saw.

Further as for Paterno...
1. He was wrong for not following up on his report to the head of the campus police.
2. He should have went to local authorities.
3. He has been made out to be a villain only because people like to see the most recognized person take a fall.

I don't know where you got the idea that I defended McQueary nor do I know where you got the notion that I think people are unable to understand what constitutes rape/child molestation without a law degree.

But I do know this, your posts go off in all different directions without the slightest bit of common sense.