McShay mock 2.0 2/9/21

[stilltheguru]

I'm at the point to where if its not Farley, head backward and target Moehrig around 18.

Problem is the dance partner, and realistically, if Moehrig settles the safety problem here...take him at 10. No one will care about draft "value" after the fact.

Looking back on most drafts, teams ought to be happy to have someone that didn't completely bust, forget about what may be perceived as a few slots too high at the time.

Trevon would have to test great for 10 which I doubt he does. But while im not the biggest fan of Surtain and think people overrate him because of his daddy/alabama I still think he will be pretty good, just not what some think. We probably will take him or Farley even though I personally wouldn't. Farleys health issues get glossed over too much. I'm done with fragile players

 

[baltcowboy]

Trevon would have to test great for 10 which I doubt he does. But while im not the biggest fan of Surtain and think people overrate him because of his daddy/alabama I still think he will be pretty good, just not what some think. We probably will take him or Farley even though I personally wouldn't. Farleys health issues get glossed over too much. I'm done with fragile players

Surtain and Farley would be defensive rookie of the year on San Francisco but on the Cowboys they will just be solid players. We need improvement on the defensive line/tackle. The good news for you is McShay is never correct about the Cowboys picks.

 

[visionary]

Where are these cap dollars?

In order to free up space to make a noticeable change on D in one offseason, you are talking about making some really questionable choices - like restructuring Elliott.

you’re saying that if the Cowboys really really want to sign Tomlinson and Williams/Maye this off season there is no way they can do that because of the cap?

I won’t pretend to give you numbers because the reality is that ALL cap gurus on CZ have no real idea what team GMs are actually able to do to free up cap dollars. The ones who do are working for NFL teams and not posting on message boards but the fact is that if the Cowboys want to do it they can

 

[Cowboyny]

this is just you rationalizing a bad situation

the reality is that if we are aggressive in FA and draft will we can build this defense in 1 year.

The only way they can become big spenders in fa is if they can extend Dak and not have him playing on the tag. They could structure the contract to to hit more in later years. If he's under the tag again, there is zero wriggle room and they would have to restructure other deals to open up the necessary space. Team already restructure many deals to prepare for Dak's contract this season. Cooper's deal is the only obvious one they can restructure as they probably don't want to touch Zeke or Jaylon's deal as it would create a bigger hit if they decided to release them.

The other way to create cap money is to release players, but you would also create another hole to fill.

We also need to look at all the holes within the roster, as they like to cover themselves prior to the draft so in theory they can take the best player available and don't have to reach to fill a need:

Secondary-all they have is basically Diggs, Brown and Wilson under contract. They need to sign a few veterans to this positional group.

Linebacker-Lee/Thomas are fa's and they are moving back to the 4-3, they are going to need another starting linebacker and a quality backup due to Lve's health.

DL-Aldon Smith is a fa, they have nothing at 1T other then Woods.

Swing Tackle

Signing a 1 ticket free agent is wishful thinking and it's highly unlikely to happen.

 

[Cowboyny]

It can be done and other teams have done it. The Bucs went from 29th to 8th in points allowed in 1 years. and 15th to 6th in yards allowed.

The Cowboys went from 9th in yards allowed in 2019 to 23rd in 2020. I think if this team finds a quality DT who can push the middle and a safety to support the run and roam around the secondary making plays they improve dramatically.

They need to fill a gap or two with quality free agents and that seems to be the holdup in improving this defense. Put Tomlinson next to Gallimore and then add a rangy free safety and watch how much better the defense becomes.

You aren't getting a tier 1 fa. There are way too many holes to fill prior to the draft. Tomlinson is a pipe dream anyway, Giants believe he is a core player for them.

Secondary-Awuzie, Lewis, Woods are fa's
Linebacker-Lee/Thomas and the need for a third starter in the 4-3.
DE-Aldon
DT-just have A. Woods at 1 Tech
Swing Tackle

Tell me, with the cap going down and limited funds as the team has to resign their QB, how are they going to sign a tier 1 fa when they have to sign 5 plus starters to fill out their roster?

You cannot compare the Bucs to Cowboys Defense, talent isn't even close. Their big jump in the rankings was due to having a better QB than wasn't a turnover machine like Winston was.

 

[Carson]

You aren't getting a tier 1 fa. There are way too many holes to fill prior to the draft. Tomlinson is a pipe dream anyway, Giants believe he is a core player for them.

Secondary-Awuzie, Lewis, Woods are fa's
Linebacker-Lee/Thomas and the need for a third starter in the 4-3.
DE-Aldon
DT-just have A. Woods at 1 Tech
Swing Tackle

Tell me, with the cap going down and limited funds as the team has to resign their QB, how are they going to sign a tier 1 fa when they have to sign 5 plus starters to fill out their roster?

You cannot compare the Bucs to Cowboys Defense, talent isn't even close. Their big jump in the rankings was due to having a better QB than wasn't a turnover machine like Winston was.

Problem is the Giants need to pay Leonard Williams as well. Tomlinson is getting an estimated 8-9 per year.

If the cap is $175 million they are NEGATIVE $3 million in the hole. If it escalates to $185 million then they only have $7 million to deal with.

OTC projects the Giants as needing $6,573,73 million for the rookie class, but per Top 51 rules, the Giants will need $2,613,732 in functional cap space according to OTC’s effective cap space formula as found on this page.)

They can move a few guys like Solder, Tate, Zeitler. They also have Jabril Peppers who becomes a free agent. The franchise for Williams is $19.3 million. So they are going to be depleting their depth as Williams is a must sign.

They have BJ Hill, Dexter Lawrence and Austin Johnson who are all 300+.

They would love Tomlinson back. But I put it more 50/50 than say 70/30 as the more I dug into it

 

[Bowdown27]

I’m still an Advocate for parsons at 10 because of how bad our linebacker play was and also our run defense. But there’s only a few guys I’d be happy with getting at ten instead of parsons. Farley and surtain are two of em. Our secondary could look way different w Farley or surtain and possibly a safety switch. For Sherman or Peterson. Could end up with a lot of coverage sacks. I know I’m dreaming that will happen but still

 

[Carson]

I’m still an Advocate for parsons at 10 because of how bad our linebacker play was and also our run defense. But there’s only a few guys I’d be happy with getting at ten instead of parsons. Farley and surtain are two of em. Our secondary could look way different w Farley or surtain and possibly a safety switch. For Sherman or Peterson. Could end up with a lot of coverage sacks. I know I’m dreaming that will happen but still

My only issue with Parsons at 10 is we need to improve at DT. Look at a few teams with stout DT play and they have average Linebackers. Prime Mike Singletary and Lawrence Taylor would struggle if they were shedding double teams all game.

There are exceptions. But we can improve with better interior play.

With that being said, I know there isn’t nor am I advocating for a DT at 10 lol

 

[Hardline]

The most impactful players we can take at 10 unfortunately play on the offensive side of the ball.
Kyle Pitts and defense in the other rounds would do more good for this franchise in the long run.
Get your defense in free agency. And unfortunately again Jerry won't sign anyone but K-Mart blue light specials.

 

[Sydla]

you’re saying that if the Cowboys really really want to sign Tomlinson and Williams/Maye this off season there is no way they can do that because of the cap?

I won’t pretend to give you numbers because the reality is that ALL cap gurus on CZ have no real idea what team GMs are actually able to do to free up cap dollars. The ones who do are working for NFL teams and not posting on message boards but the fact is that if the Cowboys want to do it they can

I am saying in order to do that they have to make some difficult decisions elsewhere - like restructuring Elliott. You guys just sometimes act like you just wave a pen and magically you make cap appear with no implications down the road.

And guess what? Cap management in terms of what the Cowboys already have on the books isn't actually that hard. If you know the contract structures, with some math, you know what kind of space a team has, can free up, etc. It's why websites like Spotrac and Over the Cap, who aren't NFL cap people themselves, are usually pretty accurate with cap numbers.

It's very simple. If the Cowboys want to sign Tomlinson and Maye this offseason after paying Dak (or worse tagging him), then there is going to have to be some restructures, likely Elliott being one, that's going to cause some cap issues down the road. That's just the reality of the cap.

 

[Creeper]

You aren't getting a tier 1 fa. There are way too many holes to fill prior to the draft. Tomlinson is a pipe dream anyway, Giants believe he is a core player for them.

Secondary-Awuzie, Lewis, Woods are fa's
Linebacker-Lee/Thomas and the need for a third starter in the 4-3.
DE-Aldon
DT-just have A. Woods at 1 Tech
Swing Tackle

Tell me, with the cap going down and limited funds as the team has to resign their QB, how are they going to sign a tier 1 fa when they have to sign 5 plus starters to fill out their roster?

You cannot compare the Bucs to Cowboys Defense, talent isn't even close. Their big jump in the rankings was due to having a better QB than wasn't a turnover machine like Winston was.

The WFT went from 27th in points allowed and 27th in yards allowed in 2019 to 4th in points allowed and 2nd in yards allowed in 2020. The Giants went from 30th in points allowed in 2019 to 9th in 2020. and from 25th to 12th in yards.

I am not saying the Cowboys ill do it, I am just saying it can be done with the right investments in free agents and draft picks.

 

[Cowboyny]

The WFT went from 27th in points allowed and 27th in yards allowed in 2019 to 4th in points allowed and 2nd in yards allowed in 2020. The Giants went from 30th in points allowed in 2019 to 9th in 2020. and from 25th to 12th in yards.

I am not saying the Cowboys ill do it, I am just saying it can be done with the right investments in free agents and draft picks.

We will improve next year, just don't know how much, especially as it looks, it will be more draft driven, without the cap to help in fa.

 

[Bowdown27]

My only issue with Parsons at 10 is we need to improve at DT. Look at a few teams with stout DT play and they have average Linebackers. Prime Mike Singletary and Lawrence Taylor would struggle if they were shedding double teams all game.

There are exceptions. But we can improve with better interior play.

With that being said, I know there isn’t nor am I advocating for a DT at 10 lol

No I knew right away you didn’t mean for us to take a dt at 10 lol I agree though. If we can sure up interior. The skys the limit for parsons.

 

[visionary]

The only way they can become big spenders in fa is if they can extend Dak and not have him playing on the tag. They could structure the contract to to hit more in later years. If he's under the tag again, there is zero wriggle room and they would have to restructure other deals to open up the necessary space. Team already restructure many deals to prepare for Dak's contract this season. Cooper's deal is the only obvious one they can restructure as they probably don't want to touch Zeke or Jaylon's deal as it would create a bigger hit if they decided to release them.

The other way to create cap money is to release players, but you would also create another hole to fill.

We also need to look at all the holes within the roster, as they like to cover themselves prior to the draft so in theory they can take the best player available and don't have to reach to fill a need:

Secondary-all they have is basically Diggs, Brown and Wilson under contract. They need to sign a few veterans to this positional group.

Linebacker-Lee/Thomas are fa's and they are moving back to the 4-3, they are going to need another starting linebacker and a quality backup due to Lve's health.

DL-Aldon Smith is a fa, they have nothing at 1T other then Woods.

Swing Tackle

Signing a 1 ticket free agent is wishful thinking and it's highly unlikely to happen.

my point is that building a proper defense this year is ‘unrealistic’ only if we dont want to not because we don’t have the resources to do so because we do

 

[visionary]

I am saying in order to do that they have to make some difficult decisions elsewhere - like restructuring Elliott. You guys just sometimes act like you just wave a pen and magically you make cap appear with no implications down the road.

And guess what? Cap management in terms of what the Cowboys already have on the books isn't actually that hard. If you know the contract structures, with some math, you know what kind of space a team has, can free up, etc. It's why websites like Spotrac and Over the Cap, who aren't NFL cap people themselves, are usually pretty accurate with cap numbers.

It's very simple. If the Cowboys want to sign Tomlinson and Maye this offseason after paying Dak (or worse tagging him), then there is going to have to be some restructures, likely Elliott being one, that's going to cause some cap issues down the road. That's just the reality of the cap.

of course “tough decisions “ will have to be made, every tram has to make these every year

my point is that building a proper defense this year is ‘unrealistic’ only if we dont want to, not because we don’t have the resources to do so because we do

 

[Cowboyny]

my point is that building a proper defense this year is ‘unrealistic’ only if we dont want to not because we don’t have the resources to do so because we do

You never want to be a team that is hamstrung by the cap. They know all about that after the Aikman years. They could create any amount of funds, but that could seriously affect them in the long-term.

 

[visionary]

You never want to be a team that is hamstrung by the cap. They know all about that after the Aikman years. They could create any amount of funds, but that could seriously affect them in the long-term.

teams have to pay a price for previous poor decisions but that should not be used as an excuse to not make the right decisions now

 

[Cowboyny]

teams have to pay a price for previous poor decisions but that should not be used as an excuse to not make the right decisions now

They actually did spend some money last off-season, but none of them panned out. Griffen was the biggest surprise to me that he didn't make more of an impact.

 

[reddyuta]

if we playing more zone do we really need a top 10 cornerback ?

 

[Sydla]

of course “tough decisions “ will have to be made, every tram has to make these every year

my point is that building a proper defense this year is ‘unrealistic’ only if we dont want to, not because we don’t have the resources to do so because we do

Your original point was that we have the cap room to overhaul the D using FA in one year. There is a massive caveat with that statement however that makes it pretty unlikely that the Cowboys would make a couple of big defensive FA signings this offseason.

And for the record, that's not an excuse for them, the front office has put themselves in this situation by doing dumb things like handing Elliott a massive extension, signing Smith early thinking he would only get more expensive, etc.