McShay mock 3.0 3/6/14....

[Nirvana]

i


i despise tamu in many ways but if you are going to pass on manziel you sure better be right.
the most nfl-like defense in college football is without question alabama and manziel made that defense his shoe-shine boy.
cocky and arrogant enough to believe you are the worlds greatest is a trait oddly enough all the worlds greatest seem to share.
humble is vastly overrated.

the spotlight in dallas is sooooo bright and there really isnt room for romo and manziel here long-term so it is definitely not an ideal fit but it was a great problem for green bay to have with favre/rodgers and i'd love to be dealing with drama as long as it leads to super bowls.

He seems to have the "it" factor when it comes to QBs. Favre showed it in college, too. The 4th quarter comebacks, the clutch throws, the escapability, the will, the magic. Romo, for all his laurels, does not have "it." And I don't think you have a franchise qb until you get one of those.

 

[jterrell]

Sheldon Richardson was rookie of the year last year....

And I never compared Floyd and Jernigan so not sure what that is about. I don't think they are all that similar either

not sure exactly what you are arguing then... richardson had 3.5 sacks. ansah led rookies in sacks which is what i thought you were referring to.

Richardson was my pet cat last draft.
i liked him more than floyd by far (which was rare at the time).
there are tons of threads here with hundreds of my posts on the subject.

Richardson and Jernigan are similar players tho Jernigan is a bit less explosive.

 

[jterrell]

He seems to have the "it" factor when it comes to QBs. Favre showed it in college, too. The 4th quarter comebacks, the clutch throws, the escapability, the will, the magic. Romo, for all his laurels, does not have "it." And I don't think you have a franchise qb until you get one of those.

i have to disagree on romo.
i think romo has plenty of 'it'.
what romo hasnt had is a good team around him for more than a few minutes.
romo could have done more with that BP team but he was very young and his QB play was good enough to win the game.
he could have been better versus the Giants in the playoffs but our OL was completely obliterated.

all in all he hasn't lost many games where we weren't the lesser team and he's had stretches where he elevates us well above better teams by himself for a month at a time.

hard to say romo is truly elite without him claiming a super bowl but he is most definitely better than QBs who have won super bowls.

every metric tied to his personal performance is excellent. even his record is good. EXCEPT the playoff wins/losses. thats why he gets knocked and where he falls short.

 

[Nirvana]

i have to disagree on romo.
i think romo has plenty of 'it'.
what romo hasnt had is a good team around him for more than a few minutes.
romo could have done more with that BP team but he was very young and his QB play was good enough to win the game.
he could have been better versus the Giants in the playoffs but our OL was completely obliterated.

all in all he hasn't lost many games where we weren't the lesser team and he's had stretches where he elevates us well above better teams by himself for a month at a time.

hard to say romo is truly elite without him claiming a super bowl but he is most definitely better than QBs who have won super bowls.

every metric tied to his personal performance is excellent. even his record is good. EXCEPT the playoff wins/losses. thats why he gets knocked and where he falls short.

If you get a chance watch that Favre documentary it may change your mind. Or we have different ideas of what "it" is.

A few years ago I would have agreed with you, though. And I hope he proves me wrong.

 

[tm1119]

not sure exactly what you are arguing then... richardson had 3.5 sacks. ansah led rookies in sacks which is what i thought you were referring to.

Richardson was my pet cat last draft.
i liked him more than floyd by far (which was rare at the time).
there are tons of threads here with hundreds of my posts on the subject.

Richardson and Jernigan are similar players tho Jernigan is a bit less explosive.

The only point I was arguing was that looking at college sack totals is a poor way of evaluating a player.

And I was a huge Richardson fan last year as well. The same reason I'm a big Hageman fan as well. Men that big and strong shouldn't be as smooth of athletes as they are. Not sure I would put Jernigan in that category though. Player comparison for him is kinda difficult for Jernigan. Im drawing a blank. Corey Luiget from a few years ago maybe?

 

[jterrell]

If you get a chance watch that Favre documentary it may change your mind. Or we have different ideas of what "it" is.

A few years ago I would have agreed with you, though. And I hope he proves me wrong.

Tony Romo is Brett Favre's current favorite player in the NFL.... or at least was before he patched things up in GB with Rodgers.

 

[jterrell]

The only point I was arguing was that looking at college sack totals is a poor way of evaluating a player.

And I was a huge Richardson fan last year as well. The same reason I'm a big Hageman fan as well. Men that big and strong shouldn't be as smooth of athletes as they are. Not sure I would put Jernigan in that category though. Player comparison for him is kinda difficult for Jernigan. Im drawing a blank. Corey Luiget from a few years ago maybe?

fair.

i think sacks are a very good indication of explosion and technique on the field. can be overrated when they come versus little sisters of the poor to be sure but in games versus top notch comp they are very meaningful to me.
richardson showed plenty in college with his pressure and faced double teams throughout even the powerhouse SEC.

floyd didn't get that type of penetration and his low sack totals were just one of many indicators there.

jernigan most reminds me of suh. a guy with not elite level 3T play but with enough skill to play anywhere on the DL

i have a hard time slotting hageman. he wasnt that good in games but he does have that nfl caliber size and ability.
he played on fairly bad teams and maybe like spencer at purdue was just on an island with little help so didnt shine.
but i just try to avoid hard sentiments on hageman.

 

[kiheikiwi]

If, and its a big if. But if we could sign either Melton from Chicago or Joseph from the Giants this off-season - then I would have no problem putting Jernigan next to either one and him being our pick. Either the 3 or the 1, if it strengthens our line (as it would) I would not have a problem with the pick at all.

 

[supercowboy8]

floyd and jernigan are totally different players.

floyd had 4.5 sacks in 3 years.
jernigan had 4.5 just last year.

That's a closed minded non football eye to look at it. Let's just look at stats and see what they do. Neither have pass rushing moves. Jernigan is a 1 tech in this system. I trust what Broadus says over McShay. Broadus actually did this for a living and has a super bowl ring.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It's true. After watching the Favre documentary last night on NFL Network, seeing all those clutch performances, it's hard not to wonder if Manziel might be that good. It's worth a dice roll at 16.

Manziel, IMO, is not Favre. They may both like to play it lose, so to speak, but the talent levels between the two is not close IMO.

 

[jterrell]

That's a closed minded non football eye to look at it. Let's just look at stats and see what they do. Neither have pass rushing moves. Jernigan is a 1 tech in this system. I trust what Broadus says over McShay. Broadus actually did this for a living and has a super bowl ring.

i like broadus but his recent history on players and how the cowboys view them is no more accurate than mine. again my takes are here for the last 3 or 4 consecutive drafts in old threads.

lots of guys get rings, doesn't mean they were in any real way responsible for winning them.

if Jernigan was added to this team, Spencer, Ware resigned but no other DL additions, Jernigan plays the 1 AND 3.
he is a better 3T prospect than just about anyone else in this class after Donald and compares to Richardson last year.

 

[jterrell]

Manziel, IMO, is not Favre. They may both like to play it lose, so to speak, but the talent levels between the two is not close IMO.

Agree; athletically different guys altogether.
I think Manziel is much closer to Russell Wilson.
Manziel has elite level agility and can make NFL caliber players miss badly in the back field OR in the open field.
He is a much bigger rush threat and less an arm threat than Favre.

But his desire to make plays and ability to bring a football team swagger is almost unmatched except with guys like Favre.

Teams will have to play him to keep him in the pocket and force him to beat you with his arm. They try the same things with Wilson.

 

[supercowboy8]

i like broadus but his recent history on players and how the cowboys view them is no more accurate than mine. again my takes are here for the last 3 or 4 consecutive drafts in old threads.

lots of guys get rings, doesn't mean they were in any real way responsible for winning them.

if Jernigan was added to this team, Spencer, Ware resigned but no other DL additions, Jernigan plays the 1 AND 3.
he is a better 3T prospect than just about anyone else in this class after Donald and compares to Richardson last year.

I've watched him play. Of course he looks good in highlights. Thats why they are called highlights.
Marinelli likes his 3 tech to be more of a pass rusher. jernigan just isn't his type of 3 tech.

 

[LatinMind]

1 Texans Are going after Cassell to be their starting QB
2 Long and Quinn and he has Clowney? Rams would trade down and rape another team
3 Jags just resigned Henne for 2 yrs.
4 Cleveland seems to have switch to Bridgewater

Robinson really at 6? I see him going #1 now that Texans said theyre going after Cassell in FA

Pitt just released Foote, think theyd take Mosely?

If Dallas passed Martin for Jernigan, would be dumb

 

[bodi]

I can't believe this site some times - what just because he played a whatever tech in college does not mean the guy can not adjust



Timmy Jernigan, FSU, #8, 6-2, 292, JR


College Position: NT, 1T DT, and 3T DT in various fronts


Position on Cowboys: 1T or 3T DT


2014 NFL Draft Projection Round: 1-2


Timmy Jernigan was part of the defensive tackle rotation in 2011 and 2012 and was the starter in 2013. He is a 1T / 3T tweener. At 6-2, 292 he is slightly undersized for the 1T position, but makes use of strong, active hands to shed blocks and is a sure tackler. At Florida State, he lined up frequently as a NT or at the 1T position. Considering this, his 4.5 sacks are impressive. For the Cowboys’ 3T position, he is a little slow off the snap and an average pass rusher. He does not appear to be an explosive athlete but is still a fluid athlete. Daniel Jeremiah (NFL.com), Rob Rang (NFLDraftScout.com), and many other analysts have all come away impressed with Jernigan’s hand use, so he has some upside as a pass rusher. Jernigan already has a good bull rush, but it may not be as successful in the NFL at 290 pounds.

Jernigan has been mentioned as high as a mid-1st round prospect, which is a little high. Jernigan is a similar prospect to Sharrif Floyd, but lacks Floyd’s quick first step off the snap. Jernigan has a high floor; he should be a solid rotational player, providing depth and quality snaps at either the 3T or 1T. He offers more athleticism and upside as a pass rusher than Nick Hayden and should be an upgrade over Ben Bass at the 3T spot. The Cowboys have a dire need at DT, but I still see Jernigan as more of a high to mid-2nd round prospect.

2013: 54 tackles, 10.5 TFL, 4.5 sacks, 1 PD, 2 QBH
2012: 45 tackles, 8 TFL, 1.5 sacks, 0 PD, 1 QBH
2011: 30 tackles, 6 TFL, 2.5 sacks, 0 PD, 3 QBH, 1 FR

Positives: High motor; Bull rush; Active/Violent hands; Fluid athlete; Tackling; Leverage

Negatives: Tore MCL in Spring 2012 (ESPN); Slow off the snap; Average pass rusher

 

[jterrell]

I've watched him play. Of course he looks good in highlights. Thats why they are called highlights.
Marinelli likes his 3 tech to be more of a pass rusher. jernigan just isn't his type of 3 tech.

highlights aren't about looking good but about what they look good doing.
we are talking about the type of player jernigan is and highlights show a guy who is explosive with both power and speed.

name 3 of Marinelli's 3Ts?

Hatcher is 300 pounds. Prior to Marinelli he had a career high of 4.5 sacks.
Melton is 295. BTW, he has 15.5 career sacks. Never topped 7 in a year.

and of course the originator was Warren Sapp at over 300 pounds.

Rod wants his guys to rush the passer and have that skill set but he has always had Jernigan type guys in that role. Big ~300 pound guys with explosion.
No better pure match in this draft for what Rod has started than Tim Jernigan.

I like Aaron Donald better because he has insane speed and explosion.
He doesnt chase guys he's on them before they get started.
It is an elite level of explosion like Ratliff had.

Compare those highlights to these:


Is it not clearly obvious the different player type looking at those?

Jernigan is NOT the type guy for me at all. I like Donald better for sure and there are other players at other positions, but Jernigan may be the pick and if he is he won;t be pigeon-holed in at 1T because he CLEARLY has some 3T skills.
Presupposing he is only a 1T like he is Louis Nix is just silly.

 

[jterrell]

1 Texans Are going after Cassell to be their starting QB
2 Long and Quinn and he has Clowney? Rams would trade down and rape another team
3 Jags just resigned Henne for 2 yrs.
4 Cleveland seems to have switch to Bridgewater

Robinson really at 6? I see him going #1 now that Texans said theyre going after Cassell in FA

Pitt just released Foote, think theyd take Mosely?

If Dallas passed Martin for Jernigan, would be dumb

The Cowboys would be dumb to take a guy who would rate the best DT on the team day 1 in order to take a 6th OL who could start when/if we release Free or have an injury?

The Cowboys have a proven OT back up and a 4th OT they really like both on cheap deals.
They could use an OG but can get a true OG 30 picks later and already have the starting DT in house.

IF Jernigan REALLY rated late r1, early r2, the scenario where we trade down and get him a la Frederick becomes my favorite.
Then in r2 you get the Stanford, Ole Miss or UCLA OGs if you want.
In round 3 you get two cracks now via trade. Can go BPA.

A mock with this scenario could be stellar.

 

[LatinMind]

The Cowboys would be dumb to take a guy who would rate the best DT on the team day 1 in order to take a 6th OL who could start when/if we release Free or have an injury?

The Cowboys have a proven OT back up and a 4th OT they really like both on cheap deals.
They could use an OG but can get a true OG 30 picks later and already have the starting DT in house.

IF Jernigan REALLY rated late r1, early r2, the scenario where we trade down and get him a la Frederick becomes my favorite.
Then in r2 you get the Stanford, Ole Miss or UCLA OGs if you want.
In round 3 you get two cracks now via trade. Can go BPA.

A mock with this scenario could be stellar.

Just because he's the 4th best OL not the 6th doesnt mean he's not better then the #2 rated DT or the #1.

Martin is ranked 12th player overall in this draft, to Donald and Jernigan who are #21 and 22 by CBSsports rankings

Maybe the OL talent in this draft is better then the DL talent? Maybe?

 

[jterrell]

Just because he's the 4th best OL not the 6th doesnt mean he's not better then the #2 rated DT or the #1.

Martin is ranked 12th player overall in this draft, to Donald and Jernigan who are #21 and 22 by CBSsports rankings

Maybe the OL talent in this draft is better then the DL talent? Maybe?

Martin is not the 12th best player to the Dallas Cowboys.
That is the issue.
This team doesn't need a 5th OT on the roster or in effect a 6th best OL out of pick 16.

Martin's value is in being ready to play day 1 except Dallas doesn't have a position for him.
When the guy is in your sig it is hard to take you seriously in evaluating him.

Dallas has a top 10 OT in all of football. They had Free rate a top 5 RT last year by both PFF and football outsiders metrics.
They like Parnell and Weems behind those guys. Parnell has RT starting experience and they like Weems as the back up LT.
A value OT somewhere? Sure. Your top 16 pick on a guy who can only ever player OG or RT? Heck no.

Dallas could use Martin at RG for sure but as a true RG prospect he ranks behind guys in the 30's and 40's on boards.

 

[LatinMind]

Martin is not the 12th best player to the Dallas Cowboys.
That is the issue.
This team doesn't need a 5th OT on the roster or in effect a 6th best OL out of pick 16.

Martin's value is in being ready to play day 1 except Dallas doesn't have a position for him.
When the guy is in your sig it is hard to take you seriously in evaluating him.

Dallas has a top 10 OT in all of football. They had Free rate a top 5 RT last year by both PFF and football outsiders metrics.
They like Parnell and Weems behind those guys. Parnell has RT starting experience and they like Weems as the back up LT.
A value OT somewhere? Sure. Your top 16 pick on a guy who can only ever player OG or RT? Heck no.

Dallas could use Martin at RG for sure but as a true RG prospect he ranks behind guys in the 30's and 40's on boards.

With all the cuts Dallas has made on the OL. Drafting a guy like Martin solves a whole lot of them problems. You dont have to start Martin at RT you can move him inside. Mack can backup G and C. Or you can start him at RT and its not like Free is making an insane amount of money or its not like he's playing good enough that Dallas can dismiss upgrading the spot.

Stephen Jones has already talked not passing on a OL to reach for a DL

Then take into account Broaddus words from Marinelli that he expect Crawford to move inside. It might not be what you might like. But its clear Dallas likes players they have on the team already at DL and S that alot of fans hate. Thats why me and you always get into back and forths. I listen to what this team is saying and what they likes rather then basing my opinions on my wants.

My first pick would be Ealy with a trade down.
My 2nd pick would be a Garoppolo
My third would be Terrence Brooks

But do i think they would do that? No because whats being said already gives me an idea of what they want to do. With Stephens statements and releasing all these OL. they have literally 7 OL on the team. The fact that the schemed to help Free so much shows they dont trust him.

The report of Dallas most likely cutting Parnell and Durant. Probably means they dont think Parnell is in their future. That and the fact that he will be 28 this yr. And he still isnt any closer to supplanting Free.

You cant count anything out for this team this yr. Hell if Manziel fell to Dallas i actually think they would take him. I could be wrong, but I just think this team is looking for something else other then DT in RD1. Not because they are dismissing the players, but their confidence in Marinelli to develop. Hasnt that been the M.O of Dallas? When they have a coach who they feel this way about go lower picks because of that confidence in that coach?