Medical literature on nerve regeneration statistics and J Smith

[KJJ]

Absolutely correct.
That is why some of us are hoping upon hope that Jaylon can make it back this year.

Like they say, hindsight is 20-20.
No one knew back in April that Zeke, Dak, Collins and Brown would work out the way they did.
No one expected we would be 5-1, or FO may have done differently.

Even if we did not draft Jaylon, which player would have made a difference?
One can argue Jack, but he has seemed to have done jack.
He will have a short time fuse, besides we needed a DE.
Sheperd, does not help defense and our WRs have been fine.
Dont think Spence has done crap either.
You can argue Ragland since no one knew he would injured, but we originally planned on Mcclain for one more year. He also is not provide the pass rush.
You can argue Ngakoue but we had another chance to nab him in the 3rd but got Collins instead.
I dont see any well regarded DE that was available at 34.
They wanted Ogbah/Dodd, which probably would have been a mistake.

So how did we do in the 2nd round compared to others - see the stats below.
Our recent 2nd rounders have been Lee, Carter, Escobar, Lawrence, Gregory and Jaylon.
Lee, Carter and Lawrence became starters - so that is 50% hit rate right there.
Average LB success rate is 55% while DL is 26%, so we are doing really well with these 3.
Let say Escobar and Gregory are busts, though many argue Gregory is not totally there yet.
So that leaves Jaylon.
Even if Jaylon busts, we are doing ~average for NFL drafting, given DLs 2nd rounders are at only a 26% hit rate.
All this despite gambling on 3 injured players: Lee, Carter and Jaylon plus the questionable character Gregory.

1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)
2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)
3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)

The annoying thing is we did not picked up the old DE in FA for cheap, and he was available for a long time.

Don't see Smith making it back this season, he's missed too much work to have any success this year. Everyone back in April had a pretty good idea Zeke would turn out real good behind our OL. There's been no surprise with him other than him leading the league in rushing. Dak has been a dream come true, no one in their wildest dreams expected what we're seeing with him. We're having a surprising season like we did in 2014 due once again to our QB and RB. The 2014 season was done in by the lack of a pass rush in the playoffs and it would have been nice to have drafted a player defensively that could be making the impact on defense that Zeke and Dak are making on offense.

If Smith goes bust it's going to be another big setback defensively to go along with Gregory who probably won't be back next season. We have got to start making smarter decisions drafting defensively if we're ever going to have a defense that will help make us a great team. It makes no difference how good your offense is if you can't stop anyone. The Broncos proved that a few years ago. Loved what we have offensively but the defense has got to start catching up.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Reading comprehension. I'm not sure how you got that from what I posted. His nerve should have fully regenerated by now , using said timeline.

Unlike some, I don't represent myself as an expert in this area. Either the time line is inaccurate , or he's way behind.

There is the nerve that needs to regenerate and then there is the nerve to muscle interface that needs to reinnervate. It didn't come on like a switch.

There are a few doctors but no one you have been arguing with claims to be an expert. You think in terms of deadlines while others think in terms of windows of time is what your problem is.

We don't have enough information about the state of his rehab as they keep it under wraps to say exactly where it is but my impression is that the peroneal is reinnervating and they are rehabbing it.

 

[waldoputty]

Don't see Smith making it back this season, he's missed too much work to have any success this year. Everyone back in April had a pretty good idea Zeke would turn out real good behind our OL. There's been no surprise with him other than him leading the league in rushing. Dak has been a dream come true, no one in their wildest dreams expected what we're seeing with him. We're having a surprising season like we did in 2014 due once again to our QB and RB. The 2014 season was done in by the lack of a pass rush in the playoffs and it would have been nice to have drafted a player defensively that could be making the impact on defense that Zeke and Dak are making on offense.

If Smith goes bust it's going to be another big setback defensively to go along with Gregory who probably won't be back next season. We have got to start making smarter decisions drafting defensively if we're ever going to have a defense that will help make us a great team. It makes no difference how good your offense is if you can't stop anyone. The Broncos proved that a few years ago. Loved what we have offensively but the defense has got to start catching up.

You can say our 2nd round has been bad, but statistically it has been at least average.
50% average success rate is just that, good half the time and bad half the time.

I suspect the FO will act differently with the offense all set to contend.
A window is a precious thing to waste, poor Romo.
Though you never know if another game changing piece comes by, they may again follow their board...

We do need a couple serious D pieces plus resign/replace Mo.
Ideally both at the DE, as Gregory is not dependable even if he comes back this year and leads us to the promiseland.
Though one being pass rushing OLB like Smith would work also.

Lets hope Smith is one piece because he can be a dominant game changing player if healthy.
We are not going to be in a position to draft an uninjured Smith type player, hopefully for a long time.
Of course, if we wait till late in the 4th round, we can probably our future pass rusher there

Then still to replace Leary and a RT to develop because Green cannot stay healthy.

If Smith recovers and unable to get a good DE, I can see us playing on passing downs a 3-2-7 with Smith blitzing a lot of the time. 3DL could even be 3DTs to guarantee run defense.
Size-wise, he is similar to LT, enough to dream on...

 

[waldoputty]

I think the factual portion of the discussion is done.

Now things are unfortunately going back to who is right, who is wrong.

Actually I just I admitted I was probably wrong on the July timeframe because I used too simple a scenario.

It is not hard for me to do.
Wrong often, especially when it comes to women
Where is WoodysGirl ?

 

[plymkr]

Glad it is useful to you
Be careful, you may get a bill

Lol, I'll send you copywrite money

 

[CyberB0b]

I said that was the earliest timeframe. Probable timeframes and outcomes are a struggle for you.

It's also possible he never plays a down in the NFL. The truth probably lies somewhere in between , but it's hard to take anyone seriously on the subject who said this in April:

Smith is already regaining nerve function. His nerve is expected to finish healing by July. I believe if the latest MRI's would have indicated if there was scar tissue forming inside the nerve preventing a full recovery.

There is no certainty because the regeneration is ongoing but I wouldn't be surprised to see him in TC.

 

[waldoputty]

Lol, I'll send you copywrite money

I was hoping for inkind contribution...

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

It's also possible he never plays a down in the NFL. The truth probably lies somewhere in between , but it's hard to take anyone seriously on the subject who said this in April:

If you want further laughs, check out his posts from this past offseason effectively declaring Gregory a changed man and supposedly "not failing a drug test since X date of 2015." That was all stridently proclaimed of course before Gregory suspended.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's also possible he never plays a down in the NFL. The truth probably lies somewhere in between , but it's hard to take anyone seriously on the subject who said this in April:

That was end of April and near 20 weeks post injury. Shall we review the length of the peroneal and the regeneration rate again?

That is not mutually exclusive with what I said at all whatsoever. At that point the nerve likely had regenerated; he was already talking about new sensations in his leg after all. It was beginning the process of reinnervation of the muscle. TC ran through the end of August.

It's hard to take anyone seriously that doesn't understand the terms being discussed. Let me know when we hear that they underwent a surgical intervention.

 

[waldoputty]

That was end of April and near 20 weeks post injury. Shall we review the length of the peroneal and the regeneration rate again?

That is not mutually exclusive with what I said at all whatsoever. At that point the nerve likely had regenerated; he was already talking about new sensations in his leg after all. It was beginning the process of reinnervation of the muscle. TC ran through the end of August.

It's hard to take anyone seriously that doesn't understand the terms being discussed. Let me know when we hear that they underwent a surgical intervention.

Fuzzy, based on what I read, a surgical intervention would have been typical at ~month 5-7 if the nerve is not behaving correctly. This is based on what I read recently, but I dont remember the source. Do you remember anything like that? This would be even further evidence that things are moving as hoped.

 

[CyberB0b]

If you want further laughs, check out his posts from this past offseason effectively declaring Gregory a changed man and supposedly "not failing a drug test since X date of 2015." That was all stridently proclaimed of course before Gregory suspended.

Yeah, I was around for those. His online psychological evaluations are as laughable as his medical evaluations. I'm waiting for his legal opinions to start popping up in the next pertinent thread.

 

[gmoney112]

Don't see Smith making it back this season, he's missed too much work to have any success this year. Everyone back in April had a pretty good idea Zeke would turn out real good behind our OL. There's been no surprise with him other than him leading the league in rushing. Dak has been a dream come true, no one in their wildest dreams expected what we're seeing with him. We're having a surprising season like we did in 2014 due once again to our QB and RB. The 2014 season was done in by the lack of a pass rush in the playoffs and it would have been nice to have drafted a player defensively that could be making the impact on defense that Zeke and Dak are making on offense.

If Smith goes bust it's going to be another big setback defensively to go along with Gregory who probably won't be back next season. We have got to start making smarter decisions drafting defensively if we're ever going to have a defense that will help make us a great team. It makes no difference how good your offense is if you can't stop anyone. The Broncos proved that a few years ago. Loved what we have offensively but the defense has got to start catching up.

Agreed on defense. Hard to compare to Broncos though, once Peyton had to stop the HGH(which I think should be allowed for the older dudes), the offense fell off. Our offense looks like it's going to be good for 10 years, we don't need a Broncos defense, but it does need more talent.

Disagreed on Smith. I think once Jaylon is cleared he'll be good to go. He's working out and I bet he's in the film room with all the other guys Don't know if he'll play this year but if cleared, 1-2 games in and he'd be an immediate upgrade.

 

[waldoputty]

Agreed on defense. Hard to compare to Broncos though, once Peyton had to stop the HGH(which I think should be allowed for the older dudes), the offense fell off. Our offense looks like it's going to be good for 10 years, we don't need a Broncos defense, but it does need more talent.

Disagreed on Smith. I think once Jaylon is cleared he'll be good to go. He's working out and I bet he's in the film room with all the other guys Don't know if he'll play this year but if cleared, 1-2 games in and he'd be an immediate upgrade.

As much as I want to see Jaylon as a game changer, I think we all agree that we dont want to risk injury.
It appears to me that the recovery process involves a lot of rehab of those muscles including possibly the body relearning how to use them.
I am sure the Cowboys are being careful not to risk further injury.

Regarding learning the defense, play book is simple.
Though my question is how instinctual can he become with a couple weeks of practice.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Yeah, I was around for those. His online psychological evaluations are as laughable as his medical evaluations. I'm waiting for his legal opinions to start popping up in the next pertinent thread.

You missed out on the hilarity he was doling out on the "Dez trashed the rental house" thread; not only was he an expert on damaged carpet estimation, he also apparently dabbles in renter rights law. Pure comedy.

 

[KJJ]

Agreed on defense. Hard to compare to Broncos though, once Peyton had to stop the HGH(which I think should be allowed for the older dudes), the offense fell off. Our offense looks like it's going to be good for 10 years, we don't need a Broncos defense, but it does need more talent.

Disagreed on Smith. I think once Jaylon is cleared he'll be good to go. He's working out and I bet he's in the film room with all the other guys Don't know if he'll play this year but if cleared, 1-2 games in and he'd be an immediate upgrade.

We need a pass rush especially a 4th quarter pass rush if we're going to build a championship team. The Broncos a few years ago showed that not even one of the great offenses in NFL history can overcome defensive issues. Smith won't be cleared to play this season, just can't see it happening. Can't just throw a rookie on the field who's been rehabbing a serious injury for several months and expect good play out of them. He's not going to be ready to be an upgrade, he'll be a liability. He hasn't had the proper work to have any success. He never participated in OTA's, training camp or preseason. He won't play this season.

 

[gmoney112]

Yeah, I was around for those. His online psychological evaluations are as laughable as his medical evaluations. I'm waiting for his legal opinions to start popping up in the next pertinent thread.

And he still posts infinitely more valuable content than you. what an idiot!

You missed out on the hilarity he was doling out on the "Dez trashed the rental house" thread; not only was he an expert on damaged carpet estimation, he also apparently dabbles in renter rights law. Pure comedy.

He wasn't really incorrect. If you don't want to believe that a Senator and bail bondsman that were scrapped from potentially millions of dollars, may actually harbor some ill will, that's more on your naivety.

He's one of the more intelligent guys here and obviously has a business background that actually involved 'strategery'. The only times he's been actually incorrect are when he gives out his predictions like the Gregory instance which is obviously a deep seeded psychological issue.

Most of these same haters are the guys that trolled me when I broke the news on Dez' injury before the media and said he wouldn't be back until the Eagles game.

This site has lost a few valuable contributors over the years due to stuff like that, if people weren't so gung ho on trying to prove everyone wrong all the time, CZ would be full of invaluable content on a weekly basis.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

And he still posts infinitely more valuable content than you. what an idiot!



He wasn't really incorrect. If you don't want to believe that a Senator and bail bondsman that were scrapped from potentially millions of dollars, may actually harbor some ill will, that's more on your naivety.

He's one of the more intelligent guys here and obviously has a business background that actually involved 'strategery'. The only times he's been actually incorrect are when he gives out his predictions like the Gregory instance which is obviously a deep seeded psychological issue.

Most of these same haters are the guys that trolled me when I broke the news on Dez' injury before the media and said he wouldn't be back until the Eagles game.

This site has lost a few valuable contributors over the years due to stuff like that, if people weren't so gung ho on trying to prove everyone wrong all the time, CZ would be full of invaluable content on a weekly basis.

Right on what exactly? There's nothing intelligent about motive mongering. In fact, it's nothing more than a mental exercise to prop up an excuse to avoid having to deal with unsavory situations/info.

 

[waldoputty]

We need a pass rush especially a 4th quarter pass rush if we're going to build a championship team. The Broncos a few years ago showed that not even one of the great offenses in NFL history can overcome defensive issues. Smith won't be cleared to play this season, just can't see it happening. Can't just throw a rookie on the field who's been rehabbing a serious injury for several months and expect good play out of them. He's not going to be ready to be an upgrade, he'll be a liability. He hasn't had the proper work to have any success. He never participated in OTA's, training camp or preseason. He won't play this season.

Absolutely, we are stuck with what we have, unless there is a miracle trade in next 2 days.
There are many questions with Smith.
Between Smith and Gregory, that is probably the only thing we have right now that could come in.
It seems Gregory has stayed clean for a few months, so who knows.
If they are liabilities, then they will just not play.

Nobody we will have this problem 2 months ago.
It is actually a good problem, relatively.
Sure it is frustrating, but lets just hope for the best.

I think we will have more defense upgrades next year.
WR2, RT and G would have to be addressed, but we have enough resources to improve the defense.

 

[waldoputty]

And he still posts infinitely more valuable content than you. what an idiot!



He wasn't really incorrect. If you don't want to believe that a Senator and bail bondsman that were scrapped from potentially millions of dollars, may actually harbor some ill will, that's more on your naivety.

He's one of the more intelligent guys here and obviously has a business background that actually involved 'strategery'. The only times he's been actually incorrect are when he gives out his predictions like the Gregory instance which is obviously a deep seeded psychological issue.

Most of these same haters are the guys that trolled me when I broke the news on Dez' injury before the media and said he wouldn't be back until the Eagles game.

This site has lost a few valuable contributors over the years due to stuff like that, if people weren't so gung ho on trying to prove everyone wrong all the time, CZ would be full of invaluable content on a weekly basis.

Someone mentioned that there are fans from other teams trying to cause trouble sometimes

I used the ignore function 4 times.
My experience is now a lot more peaceful

 

[waldoputty]

That was end of April and near 20 weeks post injury. Shall we review the length of the peroneal and the regeneration rate again?

That is not mutually exclusive with what I said at all whatsoever. At that point the nerve likely had regenerated; he was already talking about new sensations in his leg after all. It was beginning the process of reinnervation of the muscle. TC ran through the end of August.

It's hard to take anyone seriously that doesn't understand the terms being discussed. Let me know when we hear that they underwent a surgical intervention.

Come on Fuzzy
You are letting them mess with you.
I dont know if they are closet Eagles fans or just want to ruin your fun and hardwork.
I am up to 5 on the flush list, and the experience is so much more fun and less stressful.
Please use your energy to answer my questions!

Did you see my post on the different muscles and nerves.
I know you know something about that!