Mel Kiper's initial draft prediction

[SDogo]

Look at that, Ko Simpson in mid round 1. (wink wink)

I would be heated if we passed on Ko and then went on to pick another DB.

 

[Nors]

Jimmy Williams is on the board at #18 he's a Cowboy.

He'd be our starting FS day 1 in training camp. Playmaker who will be a sure top 10 pick but we can dream!

 

[SDogo]

Once again, I'm in the minority but I thinK williams is one of the most over rated players in this draft. It looks as if others are starting to see that as well. This is a guy who started out as a top 10 locks and is now showing up in the bottom half of the first round.

 

[shnagy]

I think i will go insane if we pass on Kiwanuka. Williams is alright, but i would rather have Kiwanuka

 

[SDogo]

I think i will go insane if we pass on Kiwanuka. Williams is alright, but i would rather have Kiwanuka

To play where? He does not have the ability to play LB and we just drafted Spears and Canty not to mention Ratliff.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

I would love to have that Hokie on the Cowboys, however, IMO we would move him back to FS!

 

[InmanRoshi]

To play where? He does not have the ability to play LB and we just drafted Spears and Canty not to mention Ratliff.

He has more ability to play OLB than he does 4-3 defensive end, IMO The reason he's falling so far is scouts think he's too lanky and light in the britches to hold up against the run as a every down defensive end. He gets pushed around too easily, and his best move is running around people because he's a freak of an athlete. He screams 'tweener'. Very much like Willie McGinest at USC. I would not count against him being a Cowboy. Bill Parcells loves height and smarts in his defensive pass rushers, and Kiwi has that in spades. And don't discount those Boston College ties.

 

[SDogo]

He has more ability to play OLB than he does 4-3 defensive end, IMO The reason he's falling so far is scouts think he's too lanky and light in the britches to hold up against the run as a every down defensive end. But he's a freak of an athlete. He screams 'tweener'. I would not count against him being a Cowboy. Bill Parcells loves height and smarts in his defensive pass rushers, and Kiwi has that in spades.

I just don't see it. Much of it will depend on how he runs at work outs but I would not expect anything much better then a 4.7 or 4.8 and that won't cut it IMO. Also, one of his biggest weaknesses is that he does not play real physical and is more finess. He's not that good vs the run and has troubel shedding blocks. Those would only be magnified at LB.

 

[InmanRoshi]

It seems some people fluctuate wildly from franchise caliber QB to journeyman within just a few months.

Well, Merriman ran a 4.69 on a fast track, and he looks to be pretty decent.

You'll have to explain to me how the penchant of getting pushed around would be more magnified for a LB playing in space and taking on tight ends and full backs than a defensive end in the trenches who has to grapple with a 330 lbs. offensive tackle with gap responsibilities on every play. Because you've absolutely lost me on that.

 

[SDogo]

You'll have to explain to me how that would be magnified for a LB playing in space more and taking on tight ends and full backs more than a defensive end in the trenches who has to grapple with a 330 lbs. offensive tackle with gap responsibilities on every play. Because you've absolutely lost me on that.

In the 3-4 the LB are not exactly protected like they are in the 4-3. He would see just as much of the OL trying to get block at the 2nd level as he would TE's and FB's. Do you really think he has the quickness and ability to do what is asked of Ware any given game? I really can't see him lined up across from a wide out or dropping back to cover a TE.

 

[SDogo]

Well, Merriman ran a 4.7+ 40, and he looks to be pretty decent.

You'll have to explain to me how the penchant of getting pushed around would be more magnified for a LB playing in space and taking on tight ends and full backs than a defensive end in the trenches who has to grapple with a 330 lbs. offensive tackle with gap responsibilities on every play. Because you've absolutely lost me on that.

Merriman's official time was a 4.65 which does not seem like it but is a far cry from a 4.8

Merriman also has played in the 3-4 at LB in college before heading to the pro's. Kiwi has dropped back probably twice in his whole college career.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Do you really think he has the quickness and ability to do what is asked of Ware any given game? I really can't see him lined up across from a wide out or dropping back to cover a TE.

Okay, I get the point that 3-4 OLB's aren't always protected, but to suggest that he'll be more protected by playing DE lining up directly with a OT and fighting for gap responsibility is still a ludicrous concept.

There are a lot of OLB's in the 3-4 who perform quite well, even to a Pro Bowl level, who don't have Ware's speed. Shaun Phillips ran a 4.89 for the draft, and he's one of the up and coming 3-4 OLB'ers in the league. I doubt Mike Vrabel fared much better coming out of Ohio State.

 

[Avery]

Interesting pick.

Mock drafts are like throwing darts at a board at this point. I don't see Williams being available here but stranger things have happened.

 

[SDogo]

Okay, I get the point that 3-4 OLB's aren't always protected, but to suggest that he'll be more protected by playing DE lining up directly with a OT and fighting for gap responsibility is still a ludicrous concept.

There are a lot of OLB's in the 3-4 who perform quite well, even to a Pro Bowl level, who don't have Ware's speed. Shaun Phillips ran a 4.89 for the draft, and he's one of the up and coming 3-4 OLB'ers in the league. I doubt Mike Vrabel fared much better coming out of Ohio State.

I feel ya to, who is to really know but as with any prospect there will be opinions on both sides of the fence. You never really know what will happen till these young men are put into the position.

The fun part is debating it till that time comes

 

[InmanRoshi]

I feel ya to, who is to really know but as with any prospect there will be opinions on both sides of the fence. You never really know what will happen till these young men are put into the position.

The fun part is debating it till that time comes

Agreed.

 

[shnagy]

If he got pushed around so much, then how would he be so highly rated? I think he has more power than Ware, and could line-up for Spears or Canty. Now what happens if one of the two go down with an injury? Kiwi could be there to take over for them, if not start ahead of one of them. Drafting him would make it easier to lose Ellis. I know we really do not need him, but he would be the BPA IMO.

 

[shnagy]

Honestly, i would rather have the NT from Oregon, but it doesn't look like that beast is going to fall any. I just like Kiwi's ability. I don't think i would be terribly upset with Williams though. He's pretty good too.

 

[InmanRoshi]

If he got pushed around so much, then how would he be so highly rated?

Because he's a freak of an athlete and he can rush the passer. He just may not have a clear cut position or be an every down player.

 

[shnagy]

Because he's a freak of an athlete and he can rush the passer. He just may not have a clear cut position or be an every down player.

Maybe so. I think he could line up in various spots for us and be successful. I think if he develops more strength, then he would probably be our starting DE. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's the freakish athleticism blinding me.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Maybe so. I think he could line up in various spots for us and be successful. I think if he develops more strength, then he would probably be our starting DE. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's the freakish athleticism blinding me.

If Greg Ellis were to throw a fit and demand to be released, Dallas would need someone to fill his spot as an outside pass rusher in a 4 man line on nickel sets and make up for his 8 sacks last year. Kiwi could do that. You would just have to sign someone like Fujita to play the OLB spot on running downs for him while he learns the position for a year or so. Nickel sets see 40-50% of the defensive snaps, and they are often on critical 3rd downs, so its not like he's wasting away. It would be a luxory for a team and a defense who finds themselves on the verge of being good and just needs an extra playmaker or two ... which is pretty much where I currently put the Cowboys. I'm hoping Dallas most glaring holes will be filled with wise UFA decisions, and they can afford to take a chance on value like Kiwi (or anyone else who falls to their spot).