Melvin Gordon's contract vs Zeke's contract

[Aviano90]

He receives a lot of criticism on this board because he doesn’t break long runs. Pollard breaks one long run last season against the Rams and all of a sudden some fans claim he’s better than Zeke.

But wasn't that supposed to be a reason why we drafted him so high...he could get the tough yards AND break the long runs? It's become a weakness. Sort of like Byron being great in coverage but can't force a takeaway to save his life.

 

[Proof]

When you can have a player more efficient come in if you need to be taken out, then you are a hindrance to winning. As I said durability is not a positive WHEN YOU ARE ON THE FIELD.

Average receiver was being nice.

why do you keep stressing “ON THE FIELD”. It’s such an odd hill. Durability absolutely helps when you’re on the field. Ask Todd Gurley. Especially when (as previously mentioned) you also dole out punishment.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

What exactly is so special about Zeke? LOL

Really, I don't see it. The guy gets over 300 carries a year and what does he do with them exactly? Lost of TD's? Nope. Is he some kind of big play guy? Can score from anywhere at any time? Nope. Great leader? like Emmitt? Unstoppable? Nope.

I'm gonna ask you what i've asked people before.

Since Zeke has entered in the league in 2016....what running back has been better?

When he came into the league Leveon Bell, David Johnson and Todd Gurley were considered the best.

Some would throw Lesean McCoy in there even. Gordon had a small run.

Then Saquon came and he was the best back in the league.

Now its Dalvin Cook, Henry and McCaffery.

I understand the allure of the unknown.

But the fact you have to ask how is he special?

Who is better?Who's been better? I listed guys who may have been better for a year and then drop off the face of the earth. Zeke hasn't. He's always been here. I don't need Joseph Randle, Demarco Murray or Darren Mcfadden to appreciate him.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

But wasn't that supposed to be a reason why we drafted him so high...he could get the tough yards AND break the long runs? It's become a weakness. Sort of like Byron being great in coverage but can't force a takeaway to save his life.

Not at all. The Cowboys were never built off long runs. Zeke was drafted because he was suppose to benefit Romo and keep the defense off the field.

For those complaining about him....he was the one pick in the draft that benefited both sides of the football. It was never because of long runs. Hell Felix Jones made long runs.

 

[KJJ]

But wasn't that supposed to be a reason why we drafted him so high...he could get the tough yards AND break the long runs? It's become a weakness. Sort of like Byron being great in coverage but can't force a takeaway to save his life.

I think we all were expecting more long runs from him but he’s not very elusive and he seems to seek out punishment. He doesn’t seem to have great vision. He just lowers his shoulder and tries to run over defenders. However he’s still been very productive and he puts points on the board. He forces defenses to gear up for him. Fans are down on him because he doesn’t break long runs. If a back doesn’t break long runs some fans think they’re not very good.

 

[Aviano90]

Not at all. The Cowboys were never built off long runs. Zeke was drafted because he was suppose to benefit Romo and keep the defense off the field.

For those complaining about him....he was the one pick in the draft that benefited both sides of the football. It was never because of long runs. Hell Felix Jones made long runs.

Sorry, but I can't buy this excuse. We kept the defense off the field in 2015 with Weeden, Cassel, Randle and DMC. At one point about 75% through the season our crappy offense was averaging a whooping 3 minutes and 20 seconds per drive. This slowly came down at the end of the year, especially when Moore came in and our offense ran at a much faster pace. Heading into week 17 we were still the number 1 offense in the league in average time of possession per drive. After the game we finished 3rd best.

So we were controlling the ball fine, we just weren't scoring.

And the debates we had if we obtained a RB in the 2016 draft was should we get Zeke in the 1st round or take defense and then snag Henry in the 2nd. I remember people saying Zeke was better because he would be the more explosive and dynamic runner of the 2. And he was for 1 year.

 

[Kaiser]

You made one of the most ridiculous statements ever the other day claiming Zeke is it even good. It’s obvious you don’t like him.

He wanted Dallas to draft Ramsey over Zeke. He's spent five years running down Zeke to try to claim he was right about his draft prediction.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Gordon is amazing. The guy is a TD waiting to happen. Behind THIS line, he easily makes this a more dynamic offense.

You guys have to stop using the "behind this line" line to talk about how good someone is. IF he's good he should be able to do it behind every line.

 

[Kaiser]

Sorry, but I can't buy this excuse. We kept the defense off the field in 2015 with Weeden, Cassel, Randle and DMC. At one point about 75% through the season our crappy offense was averaging a whooping 3 minutes and 20 seconds per drive.

We had higher times of possession in 2015 because we couldn't pass with guys like Weeden and were forced to run. That takes more time off the clock but its a big part of the reason we lost 12 games that year.

 

[Kaiser]

You guys have to stop using the "behind this line" line to talk about how good someone is. IF he's good he should be able to do it behind every line.

In 2018 we had one of the worst OL in football and Zeke had 127 rushing yards over anyone in the NFL, even though he only played 15 games to guys with 16.

 

[Kaiser]

I've been out-of-the-loop and hadn't ever looked at Zeke's contract. At first glance, I'm a big fan.

Especially when you compare it to Gurley's. Gurley got a bigger signing bonus as a rookie than Zeke got in his extension. The casual fan looks at that 90 Million dollar number or that the top line is 15MM per season, but in reality it was a team friendly deal for the player we got.

 

[blueblood70]

I'm gonna ask you what i've asked people before.

Since Zeke has entered in the league in 2016....what running back has been better?

When he came into the league Leveon Bell, David Johnson and Todd Gurley were considered the best.

Some would throw Lesean McCoy in there even. Gordon had a small run.

Then Saquon came and he was the best back in the league.

Now its Dalvin Cook, Henry and McCaffery.

I understand the allure of the unknown.

But the fact you have to ask how is he special?

Who is better?Who's been better? I listed guys who may have been better for a year and then drop off the face of the earth. Zeke hasn't. He's always been here. I don't need Joseph Randle, Demarco Murray or Darren Mcfadden to appreciate him.

I agre and the handful of super haters on zeke are insane..

its time let it go hes under contract

Now lets go back to Pay Dak or not pay dak..)) this is current..BTW I think Coopers contact is a monumental mistake but time will tell and ill eat crow when the time comes..

 

[Kaiser]

You mean my long post where I provided statistical analysis of Zeke's performance and showed he hasn't been efficient in his NFL career?

He doesn't break long runs. He isn't a particularly potent threat in the passing game.

Yes, we remember the post where you made up stats like "percentage of runs that went over 30 yards" so could compare a workhorse back to specialty backs. So you could criticize Zeke on made up stats.

 

[slick325]

Zeke Elliott is a player that has not missed a game due to injury (wasn't injury prone in high school or college either). He also is producing on a HOF level thru his 1st four seasons (seems par for the course since he was highly productive in high school and college as well).

When scouting and drafting a player, those are two of the most important traits teams look for...no injury history and highly productive. In the last two days I have seen threads about Melvin Gordon and Todd Gurley and comparisons to the Cowboys RB. Based on the two things I referenced above, how can anyone think these are apples to apples comparisons? Unless there is an agenda.

Zeke reminds me of another RB that was never injured and highly productive in high school, college and the NFL...Emmitt Smith. The only current RB that has the same pedigree actually is Derrick Henry. He has a good injury history from high school, college and now. Plus, he has produced at a high level on every level. Yet, skill for skill (running, blocking, catching) Henry is still the lesser RB.

Barring injury or something off the field, the Cowboys hit a home run with the 4th pick of the 2016 NFL Draft. With a top 5-10 pick, the goal is to land a potential HOFer in most front offices...Dallas accomplished that goal.

 

[Kaiser]

Barring injury or something off the field, the Cowboys hit a home run with the 4th pick of the 2016 NFL Draft. With a top 5-10 pick, the goal is to land a potential HOFer in most front offices...Dallas accomplished that goal.

Exactly. I wanted Ramsey and generally agree with the idea that you don't draft a RB high. But Zeke was the best player in that class and there are only so many elite players in the NFL. It was clearly the right pick, even if I didn't think so at the time.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Melvin Gordon is amazing. Save durability, he is everything that Zeke isn't. Give me Pollard and Gordon. Melvin for 8 mill for two years hell yah.

He's everything that Zeke isn't? Like what?

But wouldn't it be nice if he didn't peak his rookie year? Imagine him getting better after 2016.

Better is subjective. You could argue he is a better back now than he was in 2016. You saw what he did this year with no training camp?

He had 5 fumbles in 2016. Only had 3 last year. Better ball control.
He had 11 first downs from receptions in 2016. In 2019 he had 21.
In 2016 he had 15 touchdowns......in 2019 he had 12...however in 2017 and 2018 he had 13 rush touchdowns COMBINED.

Sorry, but I can't buy this excuse. We kept the defense off the field in 2015 with Weeden, Cassel, Randle and DMC. At one point about 75% through the season our crappy offense was averaging a whooping 3 minutes and 20 seconds per drive. This slowly came down at the end of the year, especially when Moore came in and our offense ran at a much faster pace. Heading into week 17 we were still the number 1 offense in the league in average time of possession per drive. After the game we finished 3rd best.

So we were controlling the ball fine, we just weren't scoring.

And the debates we had if we obtained a RB in the 2016 draft was should we get Zeke in the 1st round or take defense and then snag Henry in the 2nd. I remember people saying Zeke was better because he would be the more explosive and dynamic runner of the 2. And he was for 1 year.

Excuse? I gave no excuses. I'm telling you why they drafted him lol. Wasn't excusing it. You said it was because of Zeke's long runs.
We kept the defense off the field in 2015? Defense was 5th in the league in rushing touchdowns given up. Gave up 120 yards a game. Gave up the 2nd most 1st downs in the league. The only time they got off the field was when teams got tired of running down their throat.

I'm not sure about your last point. Are you referencing last season? We were the number 1 offense in the league due in part to Zeke lol. I'm not sure what's your point there?

And I can't recall the debates that were had here. I wasn't on the side of drafting Zeke.

But I know from scouts and draft experts the main positives I heard about Zeke were how he was one of the best blockers they had seen in pass protection. Here's his scouting report at NFL.com:



STRENGTHS
Elite combination of vision and decisiveness. Instinctive, short strider with instant reaction time. Has a bona fide jump-cut to elude penetration in the backfield and enough burst to elude chasers when he bounces runs to the outside. Able to change directions with no hesitation or wasted motion and is always headed forward. Has innate feel for developing blocks in space and is excellent at setting his blocks up and accelerating from behind them when the linebacker is trapped. When it's gridlocked inside, finds yards on his own. Rocked up physique but still maintains loose hips for agility. Exceptional balance through contact and takes tacklers for a ride. Has a "come at me, bro!" mentality as a runner. Loves to end runs on his physical terms. Uses lead shoulder as a weapon, but plays with outstanding ball security. Looks to absolutely bludgeon defenders as a lead blocker and is often successful. Able pass catcher who adjusts to throws and can do something with it after the catch.
WEAKNESSES
Strapped it up with a heavy workload over last two seasons including over 600 touches. Defenders land big shots on him. Appears to be too willing to put himself through the meat grinder rather than avoiding certain collisions. Understanding when to attack and when to elude may take time for him. Can sharpen his pass routes a bit and has room for improvement as a pass blocker. On second level, gets on top of defenders before he has a chance to gather himself into a position to evade a tackle. Questions arose about his maturity after complaining about lack of carries in Michigan State game.

 

[Typhus]

Zeke and Melvin are different players, Zeke has a lot of haters now because of his hold out and eventual contract. These haters take every opportunity they get to knock Zeke so here we are again. We are supposed to pretend Zeke and Melvin are similar players and so Melvin now getting a deal with the Broncos for petty cash means we overpaid for Zeke. It's a lame argument that's hardly worth paying attention to.

The Cowboys have an ejection button built into Zeke's contract after the 2022 season if he isn't earning his keep. You haters, hate because you aren't smart enough to understand the legalese in Zeke's contract. It's a Cowboy's friendly deal for arguably the best RB in the league.

On the other hand, there is Melvin Gordan who tried to pull the same stunt Zeke did by holding out last year. The Chargers weren't playing that so they let him hold out until he figured out on his own that the hold out was going to get him nothing. He's simply not as big a deal as he thought he was. He didn't have the leverage he thought he did to successfully pull off a hold out. He is certainly no Zeke. The haters will pretend otherwise but folks, don't be fooled. Zeke is the real deal while Melvin is the imitation. Best of luck to Mel in Denver. lol

I understand the premise of the OP, but using Melvin Gordon as comparison is rather short sighted, sorry OP.
Dig a bit deeper and names like Justice Hill start making more sense.
If your going to build an elite OL, why not use it to help alleviate cap issues?
Its a different way of thinkin, and I get it when you feel the need to put a Ferrari on the Autobahn, but that just Jerry.

 

[Aviano90]

Excuse? I gave no excuses. I'm telling you why they drafted him lol. Wasn't excusing it. You said it was because of Zeke's long runs.

It's part of the reason we selected him. Here is a link to WalterFootball's scouting: https://BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1/scoutingreport2016eelliott.php
One of the strengths listed: Can break off long runs

This was true in 2016 and not since.

We kept the defense off the field in 2015? Defense was 5th in the league in rushing touchdowns given up. Gave up 120 yards a game. Gave up the 2nd most 1st downs in the league. The only time they got off the field was when teams got tired of running down their throat.

Yes, we were one of the best teams at ball control that year. Our running game wasn't the problem, our passing game was. We had horrible QB play. The defense and offense can both independently suck on their own.

I'm not sure about your last point. Are you referencing last season? We were the number 1 offense in the league due in part to Zeke lol. I'm not sure what's your point there?

I assume by "last point" you mean when I said "And he was for 1 year." I'm saying Zeke was more explosive than Henry for 1 year...in 2016. He hasn't been more explosive since. Henry has been. And I'm not claiming Zeke isn't good or that he hasn't helped the offense. I'm not claiming he sucks. I'm claiming he should be better than he is. I have theories as to why he isn't that I'll provide if the conversation evolves into that.

And I can't recall the debates that were had here. I wasn't on the side of drafting Zeke.

Sorry, I was on the DC.com boards and that was what I was referencing.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

In 2018 we had one of the worst OL in football and Zeke had 127 rushing yards over anyone in the NFL, even though he only played 15 games to guys with 16.

Facts.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Exactly. I wanted Ramsey and generally agree with the idea that you don't draft a RB high. But Zeke was the best player in that class and there are only so many elite players in the NFL. It was clearly the right pick, even if I didn't think so at the time.

I wanted Ramsey too but i'm over him. HE's a headache and a moron. I want no parts of that crap.