Mendenhall vs. Jones: The final word

[AtlCB]

I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that defenses were not geared to stop Felix Jones. Arkansas really had only two legitimate offensive weapons - Darren McFadden and Felix Jones. Their passing game was atrocious. Felix lined up as the only back on many plays. Think about it. If you are a defensive coordinator, what would your gameplan be - develop a plan to stop McFadden and Jones, or develop a plan to stop McFadden and a seriously inept passing game?

 

[AtlCB]

Now, Mendenhall had far more carries, but also faced defenses geared to stop him and had to do the between-the-tackles and short-yardage dirty work for the Illini. And you could argue that seven of those "big plays" for Jones came against the likes of Troy, North Texas and Tennessee-Chattanooga. To be fair, two of Mendenhall's came against Ball State. But he didn't play in a gimmicky offense that worked to get him in the open field with the defense keying on someone else.

Other than Ohio State and USC, who did Illinois really play? Arkansas played some cupcakes, but they also played many of the college football's best teams.

 

[lspain1]

I've not been a huge Jones supporter although it has been GREAT fun to joke with the "woe is us" Mendenhall crowd. The honest truth is no one knows how these two backs are gonna turn out. Mendenhall came to visit at Valley Ranch and the Cowboys certainly did their homework. In the draft room there did not seem to be overwhelming support for either choice and it came down to a decision between Jerry and Wade. We'll see how it turns out and then the second guessing will either die out completely or be proven correct. To repeat my point....no one today can evaluate whether this pick was right or wrong. Only time will tell.

 

[trentmonster]

Other than Ohio State and USC, who did Illinois really play? Arkansas played some cupcakes, but they also played many of the college football's best teams.

Actually, Ohio State IS a cupcake for the SEC..

Jarvis Moss after the Gators smoked the mighty Buckeyes in the SEC Invitational...

"Honestly, we've played a lot better teams than them," Florida defensive end Jarvis Moss said. "I could name four or five teams in the SEC that could probably compete with them (Ohio State) and play the same type of game (aka the beatdown) we did against them."

PS. Emmitt wanted me to remind the pro-Mendenhall crowd that little-10 stud Blair Thomas was drafted ahead of him in 1990.

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm happy with Felix Jones, I have nothing aginst Mendenhall and think he is a good RB but Dallas has made their choice and went with Jones end of story as far as I'm concerned we got a damn good RB

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Mendenhall had about twice as many rushing attempts (262 to 133) and catches (34 to 16).

I wonder why Breer left that out.



Breer is mistaking the fact that Mendenhall had more catches with being a better receiver, which isn't necessarily the case. And versatility is an entirely different matter. Can Mendenhall do anything but line up in the backfield? Has he ever lined up wide? Can he play in the slot? Can he return kicks? Jones has done all of those things. That makes him versatile. Catching passes out of the backfield doesn't make you versatile, it makes you a running back.




That's a horrible example. Is he saying Peterson is a workhorse, grind-it-out type? And Taylor is a mediocre running back who has 4.58 speed and is better when he's NOT carrying the load (he averaged 4.01 ypc in that 1,200-yard season, compared to 5.4 last year as a part-time player). Taylor is the type of running back who leaves you always hoping to upgrade the position. Peterson is bigger, has 4.38 speed and was the top running back in his draft. So how is drafting Peterson even relevant to this discussion? Was there a Chester Taylor clone they were debating taking instead with the seventh overall pick?

Thanks Adam for yet again infusing logic into the argument. Just a reminder that anyone can half-a** stats to try and show their side of the story and sell it to most of the masses that do not have the time or the desire to do their homework. Pretty shoddy journalism by Breer to sell his stance.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Actually, Ohio State IS a cupcake for the SEC..

Jarvis Moss after the Gators smoked the mighty Buckeyes in the SEC Invitational...

"Honestly, we've played a lot better teams than them," Florida defensive end Jarvis Moss said. "I could name four or five teams in the SEC that could probably compete with them (Ohio State) and play the same type of game (aka the beatdown) we did against them."

PS. Emmitt wanted me to remind the pro-Mendenhall crowd that little-10 stud Blair Thomas was drafted ahead of him in 1990.

LSU shouldn't have even been in the title game but lets not get started on that. Ohio State would have destroyed Florida if Ted Ginn JR doesn't get injured on the TD celebration.

I don't get your point about Emmitt Smith Mendenhall was drafted after Felix and neither of them are on the level of Emmitt.

Yea because all SEC RB's come to the league and dominate. Only the SEC produces quality level starters in the NFL. This man crush of the SEC needs to stop.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Not really sure I like this journalistic development of a beat writer becoming so judgemental and opinionated on a team's moves... Especially the day after the draft. You could tell even in the press conference that he was asking about Mendenhall almost as if he was personally offended that we hadn't taken his favorite.

Hey Breer, you're a beat man. You're supposed to give us the facts about the team you cover on a daily basis. Maybe in 10 years when you're a columnist, you can opine on how badly the team has screwed up. For now, maybe you should save the play-GMing for your private fantasy draft leagues.

 

[HoosierCowboy]

LSU shouldn't have even been in the title game but lets not get started on that. Ohio State would have destroyed Florida if Ted Ginn JR doesn't get injured on the TD celebration.

I don't get your point about Emmitt Smith Mendenhall was drafted after Felix and neither of them are on the level of Emmitt.

Yea because all SEC RB's come to the league and dominate. Only the SEC produces quality level starters in the NFL. This man crush of the SEC needs to stop.

If LSU should not have been in the big game and still smoked the Buckeyes, what does that say about OSU. And how could Ginn have decided the championship game? He was a decent yet overrated college player.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

LSU shouldn't have even been in the title game but lets not get started on that. Ohio State would have destroyed Florida if Ted Ginn JR doesn't get injured on the TD celebration.

???? It might have been a little closer, but Florida gave OSU one of the biggest beat downs ever between a #1 and #2. All Ginn did was run back the opening kick-off and OSU is lucky he did, because a 41-14 whipping with Florida outgaining them by like 300 yards is just embarrassing. If memory serves, OSU only had like 80 yards of total offense in that game. I agree that Ginn was a great college player, but he was not going to be worth four touchdowns on his own, much less destroy Florida.

 

[alancdc]

LSU shouldn't have even been in the title game but lets not get started on that. Ohio State would have destroyed Florida if Ted Ginn JR doesn't get injured on the TD celebration.

I don't get your point about Emmitt Smith Mendenhall was drafted after Felix and neither of them are on the level of Emmitt.

Yea because all SEC RB's come to the league and dominate. Only the SEC produces quality level starters in the NFL. This man crush of the SEC needs to stop.

WOW, just wow. I am not an SEC guy, but I doubt that Ginn would have made a 30 point difference unless he somehow could have gained about 150 pounds and been able to play o line. As for LSU and the idea that they shouldn't have even been in the game...I don't necessarily disagree with that, but the fact is they were in that game and still dominated OSU. To follow your logic....who should have been there? I assume that you mean LSU wasn't as good a team as a more deserving team? Therefore whoever shoud have been there would have been better than LSU correct?.....So how badly would that team have beaten the best team in the Big 10? At any rate...all conferences have great skill players, but I am happy with F Jones.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Mendenhall vs. Jones: The final word
And you could argue that seven of those "big plays" for Jones came against the likes of Troy, North Texas and Tennessee-Chattanooga. To be fair, two of Mendenhall's came against Ball State.

For the record, I think Mendenhall will be a great player in the NFL, especially considering that he went to the Steelers, who will utlize him well. Having said that, man, what a spin job by Breer!

By Breer's logic, Troy is a Patsy. Troy ranked 54th in Total D in 2007, which is around the 50th percentile in D1. More relevant when you consider Troy played the likes of Arkansas, Florida, Georgia and Oklahoma State. So in using Breer's "patsy" theory, what Breer fails to mention is that Illinois' schedule also contained the following Defensive Patsies:

- Minnesota - Ranked 119 in D1 Defense, Dead last. -
- Western Illinois - Division II patsy
- Syracuse - Ranked 111 out of 119 in total Defense
- Indiana - Ranked 71st in total Defense
- Northwestern - Ranked 77th in the Nation

Add in Ball State and that is six teams that are in the lower third D1 Total Defensive ranking or DII. 61% of his total rushing yards come from playing those six teams. Quite odd that Breer left these out of this "unbiased comarison".

 

[SMCowboy]

Really? That's funny. I've got the official combine results. And they happen to say that Mendenhall ran a 4.45 there, while Jones clocked a 4.47.
So how about explosiveness and agility? Both players had 33.5-inch verticals, while Mendenhall ran a better short shuttle (4.18-4.19) and Jones had a better broad jump (10.4-9.9).

I wonder if he has actually watched either of the players play, because there is a reason that everyone was amazed that Felix Jones didn't run faster than 4.47 at the combine, and teams were surprised that Rashard Mendenhall could run a 4.45 40. Jones is by far the faster player in pads.

This one cracks me up. Apparently people missed the Rose Bowl. You know, when Mendenhall flat out ran away from USC -- probably the fastest defense in the nation -- for a 79-yard run and a 55-yard catch.

Does he mean the USC defense that had completely dominated Illinois and didn't even allow them to get their defense STARTED for a full half, before letting their foot off the gas at the start of the second half?

For your benefit, I happened to go through all the Illinois and Arkansas play-by-plays. I'm going to classify a "big play" as 20 yards or more. Mendenhall had 18 such plays from scrimmage, two of them coming on catches. Jones had 19, two on catches.

Lets conveniently leave out that Mendenhall had 262 carries to Felix Jones's 133 carries. That Mendenhall caught 34 passes to Felix Jones 16 passes.

Now, Mendenhall had far more carries, but also faced defenses geared to stop him and had to do the between-the-tackles and short-yardage dirty work for the Illini. And you could argue that seven of those "big plays" for Jones came against the likes of Troy, North Texas and Tennessee-Chattanooga. To be fair, two of Mendenhall's came against Ball State. But he didn't play in a gimmicky offense that worked to get him in the open field with the defense keying on someone else.

Wow, I didn't realize that teams that faced Illinois were ONLY worried about Mendenhall, I would have sworn that teams were also very concerned about Isiah "Juice" Williams he did throw for 1700 yards and rush for over 750 yards. Not to mention, I find it odd that Arkansas runs a gimmicky offense, but the spread zone read offense that Illinois ran was not viewed as gimmicky...

I think there's a perception out there that Jones is a better receiver than Mendenhall. Based on what, I'll never know. In his three-year Arkansas career, Jones caught 39 passes for 393 yards. Mendenhall caught 34 passes for 318 yards during his junior year alone. I can tell you categorically, if you're looking for a back to contribute on third down, Mendenhall's more ready than Jones, based on the fact that he's a better receiver and has been used extensively in blitz pickup.

Lets leave out the fact that Felix Jones lined up at WR, Split end AND RB. Not exclusively at RB, or that Felix Jones had to split time with Darren McFadden.

There's no arguing that Jones isn't the better return man. He is, without question. Mendenhall didn't do that as a collegian.

I would hope he wouldn't try and argue that, given that Felix Jones is an All American as a returner.....

Mendenhall did have only one season as a starter, but I do think it's important to remember that the guy in front of him wasn't half-bad. Pierre Thomas may have been limited in his opportunities with the Saints last year. Still, he averaged 4.8 yards per carry and rushed for 100 yards in his only start. So while Mendenhall may not have been splitting time with Darren McFadden, he wasn't backing up a slouch.

Plus, as a sophomore, Mendenhall didn't exactly play poorly. He averaged 8.2 yards per carry and had 12 catches, which is just four off of Jones' career high.

Mendenhall as a Sophmore got a whole 78 carries for Pierre Thomas, while Felix Jones had 154 carries while splitting time with Darren McFadden. The fact is Mendenhall has had exactly ONE good year.

"I really think it was matter of time before he had a year like this. Pierre Thomas was a two-time MVP player here," Illinois RB coach Reggie Campbell told me in March. "He's been a good player, since he's been here. It was a matter of him getting on the field. He's always been the best talent we had, and then he developed into the best player we had."

So even the coach admits that it has been only one year that he has truely been the best player that they had, the other years he had the best talent, but was not the best player. That is the definition of a one year wonder.

I'm going to turn this over to Campbell again. Take it for what it's worth ...
"He was great, he was a team player, never complained," Cambell said. "He wanted to be starter, he was motivated to be the starter. But he never complained about not being the starter. ... Really, I've told pro scouts this, you try to find a fault, there was not one. He's been a 3.0 student, on the honor roll every semester, with exception of this one, and he was a 2.9. Off the field, he was great."

Yeah, lets listen to Mendenhalls coach instead of listening to NFL scouts who question his work ethic, and his desire. Yeah, I have NEVER known coaches to ***** the truth for the benefit of their players.

Again, this is hardly an indictment on Jones, who I think has a chance to add a different element to the Cowboys' offense.

So you admit that Felix Jones can add a different element to the Cowboys offense, BUT you disagree that Felix Jones is more versitle that Mendenhall. Come on know Breer you can't have it both ways. If Jones adds a different element then he also HAS to be more versitle.

No, I'm simply responding here as to why I believe that Mendenhall -- the best back in this draft -- was the right pick for Dallas, no matter the circumstances. Yes, they have Marion Barber on board, but the idea that any running back pair has to be a "thunder-and-lightning" combination is just silly.

I guess he has never heard of Darren mcFadden, here is a hint Breer, Darren McFadden was drafted #4 overall, he is hands down the best RB in this draft.

Last time I checked, the Vikings didn't need a workhorse, grind-it-out type last year. They had Chester Taylor to do that stuff -- who had just signed a four-year deal with the team and was coming off a 1,200-yard season -- already. They took Adrian Peterson anyway. How'd that work out for them?

Minnesota definately did need to get someone to take the load off of Chester Taylor, and put Taylor in as a change of pace RB. In 206 Taylor definately wore down towards the end of the season and only managed 11, 15 and 12 carries in those games. Taylor is a solid RB, who is great as a #2 RB, but can not give the big play consistently and can not handle 15-20 carries a game for a full season, 2006 proved that.

 

[ThatsmyQB]

It's really quite simple!
Sure Mendenhall was rated higher on our boards than Felix Jones, but only by I believe I read .2 points, which is a "C" hair!

We have Marion Barber, Mendenhall like Barber is a good between the tackles runner but doesn't have that elite speed.
So it was a simple choice IMO, take the back that gives you more diversity on offense and a change of pace back to Barber's bruising style and add a home run threat.

People keep saying you simply take the higher rated player on your draft board no matter what, I disagree, sure if there's a big difference in the 2 players value wise, sure, but the difference was so SMALL that you take the back that would better suit your team needs.

It's almost like if we had two D.T.'s rated, one was slightly rated higher, but one D.T. was 6'-3 285 and the other 6'-4 340, the 285 pouner might be rated a TAD HIGHER but clearly in the 3-4 defense, you'd rather have the bigger body at N.T., so because he fits your TEAM NEEDS BETTER and is a better fit on your football team, you take the bigger and slightly lower rated D.T., same with MEndenhall and Jones.

Say T.E. Tony Curtis was our starting T.E., and say there's 2 players in round 3 that are pretty similar ratings wise with one T.E. who's EXACTLY the same build and similar pass catching abilities but limited blocking abilities, and you have another T.E. who's the more big bruiser type T.E. who can do the bulk of your blocking and rated SLIGHTLY LOWER, once again, you could see why you would take the "SLIGHTLY" and I mean slightly lower rated T.E. who off sets the pass catchign ability that Curtis brings because you already have the pass catching T.E. and you need the better blocking T.E. to offset what you already have in Curtis.

Are you getting this?
We already had the bruiser in Barber, and needed a R.B. to offset what Barber brings to the table, and if that meant taking a R.B. we had say rated #20 over a R.B. we had rated #18 overall, then so be it since the difference in ratings was so "SMALL", you take the back who adds more to your TEAM and adds more balance.

Barber is the bruiser and Jones is the SPEED guy, Mendenhall would of just gave us another Barber, while that's not a bad thing, we needed more BALANCE and needed a speed back to compliment Barber compared to a Barber and another Barber.

Add the return abilities that Jones brings to the table, his ability to score anytime he touches the ball from anywhere on the field and his work ethic and heart which were two big question marks for Mendenhall also, and you can see why we took Jones and he makes more sense to add to our football team over Mendenhall even if Mendenhall was rated SLIGHTLY higher.

It's almost like how teams try and get one W.R. who's a big possession type and they want their other W.R. to be the deep threat guy.
So if you had a Chris Carter at one W.R. spot, and had come draft day you had another Chris Carter type W.R. ranked SLIGHTLY above a W.R. who was like Steve Smith who could flat out run with speed and be your deep threat, you would take the Steve Smith speed guy to compliment the Chris Carter possession W.R. even if the other W.R. (chris Carter) was rated slightly higher since you already had a W.R. with those qualities and needed to balance out your offense.

If you had Anquan Boldin, just a possession recevier and a great one at that, but if you had him, would you take the slightly higher rated W.R. who was exactly like Boldin to go opposite him or would you take the slightly lower rated W.R. who was the home run threat to compliment him?
We're talking SLIGHTLY LOWER, meaning one ws ranked #18 overall on your board and the other was ranked #20, with such a SMALL difference in rankings, you take the player who better fits what your team needs, correct?
Especially when the one guy adds value as a returner and has a much better work ethic and much better character!

I hope that explains why we chose Jones over Mendenhall, to balance out our offense and get that SPEED guy to offset our power runner in Barber, that and the fact that Jones adds moe in the return game and the fact Jones has a much better heart and work ethic then Mendenhall and you can see why we chose the lsightly lower rated R.B. in Jones over Mendenhall!
It's not like Mendenhall was a #3 overall prospect who fell to us and we MASSIVELY Reached for Jones, they were rated VERY CLOSE and when it's that close, you go with the better team fit, and that would be Jones!

It's not just putting Jones in to spell Barber either, we're gonna use them both in the same backfield, Barber can block like a beast also, and you can have one guy run one way and the other run the other way, and the defense has to guess or wait till the last minute to figure out who's getting the ball.
Jones will add a new dimension to our offense, more screens, we can put him in motion and get him against a L.B., plus his kickoff return abilities will give us great field position also.

IMO he was the correct choice that fit what our team needed, so enough with he wasn't the higher rated player, cause sometimes it does make sense to pick the slightly lower rated player as explained above with the Chris Carter/ Boldin and T.E. with tony Curtis examples I used!

 

[SMCowboy]

WOW, just wow. I am not an SEC guy, but I doubt that Ginn would have made a 30 point difference unless he somehow could have gained about 150 pounds and been able to play o line. As for LSU and the idea that they shouldn't have even been in the game...I don't necessarily disagree with that, but the fact is they were in that game and still dominated OSU. To follow your logic....who should have been there? I assume that you mean LSU wasn't as good a team as a more deserving team? Therefore whoever shoud have been there would have been better than LSU correct?.....So how badly would that team have beaten the best team in the Big 10? At any rate...all conferences have great skill players, but I am happy with F Jones.

We have to forgive DF4L, he lives in his own world. He also feels he doesn't need to give any credince to Bill Polian's view of a player, because he has read enough other scouting reports that Bill Polian's view doesn't mean anything to him.....

 

[ndanger]

LSU shouldn't have even been in the title game but lets not get started on that. Ohio State would have destroyed Florida if Ted Ginn JR doesn't get injured on the TD celebration.

I don't get your point about Emmitt Smith Mendenhall was drafted after Felix and neither of them are on the level of Emmitt.

Yea because all SEC RB's come to the league and dominate. Only the SEC produces quality level starters in the NFL. This man crush of the SEC needs to stop.

It pales in comparison to your anti - Jones commentaries.Like I said, we get it, you don't like the Felix pick. Again I am sorry your guy didn't get picked and your bitter that you haven't been able to translate your superior football knowledge into a well paying job in the NFL. Move along. They will love you over at the Steelers board and you will be viewed as a genius, instead of a whiny butted, can't wait to say I told ya' so, titty baby.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The Steeler team that beat "us" played in the 70s. What's the significance? I don't see Lambert, Bradshaw, Franco, Stallworth or any other top bananas from that era on their current roster.

The Cowboys of today look like the better team and added significant depth and speed to an already explosive team. IMO, the Steelers will chew our dust next season.

Over the years, the Steelers have consistantly been the best drafting Franchise in the league. They do know how to draft talent and they don't typically draft players with character flaws.

If you look at there 1st thru 3rd round picks in the last 15 years or so, here's what you see.

1992
1st Leon Searcy
2nd Levon Kirkland
3rd Joel Steed

1993
1st Deon Figures
2nd Chad Brown
3rd Andre Hastings

1994
1st Charles Johnson
2nd Brenston Buckner
3rd Jason Gilden
3rd Bam Morris

1995
1st Mark Bruener
2nd Cordell Stewart
3rd Brenden Stai

1996
1st Jamie Stephens
2nd Steve Conley
3rd Jon Witman

1997
1st Chad Scott
2nd Will Blackwell
3rd Paul Wiggens
3rd Mike Vrabel

1998
1st Alan Faneca
2nd Jeremey Staat
3rd Chris Conrad
3rd Hines Ward

1999
1st Troy Edwards
2nd Scott Shields
3rd Joey Porter
3rd Chris Farris
3rd Amos Zerous

2000
1st Plaxico Burress
2nd Marvel Smith
3rd Kendrick Clancy
3rd Hank Poteat

2001
1st Casey Hampton
2nd Kendrell Bell

2002
1st Kendell Simmons
2nd Antwaan Randel El
3rd Chris Hope
(Also Larry Foote, Vernon Haynes and Lee Mays in the 2002 draft. Real strong draft IMO)

2003
1st Troy Polamalu
2nd Alonzo Jackson

2004
1st Ben Roethlisburger
2nd Ricardo Colchough
3rd Max Starks

2005
1st Heath Miller
2nd Bryant McFadden
3rd Trea Essix

2006
1st Santonio Holmes
3rd anthoney Smith
3rd Willie Reid

2007
1st Lawrence Timmons
2nd LaMarr Woodley
3rd Matt Spaeth

This year
1st Rashard Mendenhall
2nd Limus Sweed
3rd Bruce Davis

You look at all of these guys and there are more hits then misses by a goodly amount IMO. Also, not a lot of guys who have bad character. If the Steelers took him, I gotta believe that he is a pretty solid kid. Also, probably a guy who's not going to fail.

Everybody pretty much knows what I thought of the pick but it's done now. Sleep in the bed you made and move forward.

 

[AtlCB]

LSU shouldn't have even been in the title game but lets not get started on that. Ohio State would have destroyed Florida if Ted Ginn JR doesn't get injured on the TD celebration.

I don't get your point about Emmitt Smith Mendenhall was drafted after Felix and neither of them are on the level of Emmitt.

Yea because all SEC RB's come to the league and dominate. Only the SEC produces quality level starters in the NFL. This man crush of the SEC needs to stop.

Ohio State proved the shouldn't have been in the title game. I get tired of seeing the Ohio States and Oklahomas make it over more deserving teams only to get trounced. When is the last time an SEC team lost in a title game? When is the last time the SEC has lost more bowl games than they won?

 

[aikemirv]

I really don't know how you can watch both of them play and say that Mendenhall is as fast as Jones. It does just not show up on the field.

Maybe it is that 2nd gear that Jones hits and leaves everybody in the dust with, I don't know, but Jones looks much faster on the field.

 

[AtlCB]

You look at all of these guys and there are more hits then misses by a goodly amount IMO. Also, not a lot of guys who have bad character. If the Steelers took him, I gotta believe that he is a pretty solid kid. Also, probably a guy who's not going to fail.

Everybody pretty much knows what I thought of the pick but it's done now. Sleep in the bed you made and move forward.

If the Steelers draft so much better than the Cowboys, why aren't they the better team?