Mickey on the fan today - 12/10/09

[Chocolate Lab]

This threads reeks of epicness.

And in fairness, most people know what "outscoring" means in this context. In means you have to win a shootout rather that a low scoring game.

Still funny, though.

I do think it's insane to compare the 2007 team to the 1991 team, though. Come on. That team had several hall of famers. This one? Maybe Witten. But maybe not even him.

 

[Randy White]

so...let me get this straight...if we score more points than the Chargers, we stand a good chance of winning...?....lol..

It's December.. Even with that we'd probably find a way to lose.

get a revised scoreboard by the league next Wednesday or something..

 

[Bach]

they played a tape again with keith brooking blasting jimmy johnson that he couldnt win as much in his first 43 games compared to wade winning in his first 43 games. I like Brooking but he is starting to tick me off, big time! Jimmy Johnson did not have the talent on the team those first 2 years and in his 3rd year with less talent than what wade had on the team in 2007 to 2009, jimmy johnson won a playoff game coaching for the Dallas Cowboys.

Sounds like the same idiots who claim Switzer was a great Cowboys coach because he stood on the sidelines and got a ring in his second year. Of course they fail to mention Switzer also took over a back to back SB team and did what any one of us could've done, stand there with a headset on and watch the show.

As for Jimmy and Wade, just wow if anyone is trying to make comparisons.
Jimmy took over an aging and slow 3-13 team and totally rebuilt it. That plan led to a 1-15 first year but ultimately paid major dividends in back to back SB championships and 3 in 4 years.

Wade? He took over a playoff team that Parcells got turned around after the dismal Campo years. He's had a good record in the regular season, but has NEVER won a playoff game as HC ANYWHERE.

But, but Wade has more wins so far with the Cowboys than Jimmy after the same amount of games. :blind:

 

[Hostile]

Why is that making me laugh when I can't even hear him?

This one does too, but I can hear it.

[youtube]5P6UU6m3cqk[/youtube]

 

[Randy White]

And Jimmy had no salary cap. They signed whoever they wanted. Wade can not do the same.

No, they didn't because there was no true free agency. IIRC, all they had was Plan B free agency which teams were allowed to protect something like 47 players every year..

All they could really sign were players who got cut or left unprotected. Not that they didn't do well, they actually did great ( James Washington, Jay Novacek, Ray Horton ), but it wasn't whomever they wanted.

 

[Bach]

No, they didn't because there was no true free agency. IIRC, all they had was Plan B free agency which teams were allowed to protect something like 47 players every year..

All they could really sign were players who got cut or left unprotected. Not that they didn't do well, they actually did great ( James Washington, Jay Novacek, Ray Horton ), but it wasn't whomever they wanted.

but, but, Jimmy could sign whoever he wanted!!!!

(also - nevermind that these same people claim Jimmy wasn't in control over personnel back then)

 

[cowboyjoe]

Not really. The 1991 Dallas Cowboys were still a very young football team missing some key future starters like: Kevin Smith, Charles Haley, Darren Woodson, Chad Hennings, and Thomas Everett who came to the team after that year.

Plus a bunch of their eventually impact players were in their rookie years: Erick Williams, Leon Lett, Russell Maryland, Larry Brown, Dixon Edwards, .

If they played head to head, the 2007 team would have absolutely beaten them, probably blown them out.

Thats what I was trying to say, the 91 team was just coming into their own, took a year to mature in 92 with some of those players.

The 2007 season would have beaten them like you said, but at same time, the 2007 team wouldnt have beaten the 92 team.

So, with keith brooking saying wade was a better coach with a winning record, was without mentioning the talent on that team.

Compared to the jimmy johson team first 43 games. thats a huge difference in talent level. So, does that make wade a better coach than Jimmy, no way. And just like you said, wade had a very talented team in 2007, did he win a playoff game. No!

 

[cowboyjoe]

Why is that making me laugh when I can't even hear him?

This one does too, but I can hear it.

[youtube]5P6UU6m3cqk[/youtube]

thats a good one hostile, haha

 

[Bach]

Thats what I was trying to say, the 91 team was just coming into their own, took a year to mature in 92 with some of those players.

The 2007 season would have beaten them like you said, but at same time, the 2007 team wouldnt have beaten the 92 team.

So, with keith brooking saying wade was a better coach with a winning record, was without mentioning the talent on that team.

Compared to the jimmy johson team first 43 games. thats a huge difference in talent level. So, does that make wade a better coach than Jimmy, no way. And just like you said, wade had a very talented team in 2007, did he win a playoff game. No!

That's what happens when some mindlessly only look at numbers and stats without considering context and circumstances.

 

[cowboyjoe]

Sounds like the same idiots who claim Switzer was a great Cowboys coach because he stood on the sidelines and got a ring in his second year. Of course they fail to mention Switzer also took over a back to back SB team and did what any one of us could've done, stand there with a headset on and watch the show.

As for Jimmy and Wade, just wow if anyone is trying to make comparisons.
Jimmy took over an aging and slow 3-13 team and totally rebuilt it. That plan led to a 1-15 first year but ultimately paid major dividends in back to back SB championships and 3 in 4 years.

Wade? He took over a playoff team that Parcells got turned around after the dismal Campo years. He's had a good record in the regular season, but has NEVER won a playoff game as HC ANYWHERE.

But, but Wade has more wins so far with the Cowboys than Jimmy after the same amount of games. :blind:

Bingo! Exaxtly!

If Brooking and the players want to defend wade, then do your talking on the field, quit losing big games like the NY Giant game in NY.

Prove it on the field, quit getting mad at us fans, the media, do your talking on the field. If you spent as much energy on the field as you do about getting upset about wade, maybe you would win a big game.

When you finally have had enough and say thats enough, thats it, its time for us to do something, while quit blowing assignments and blown coverages, etc, then maybe you can win games you should and get to the playoffs and beyond.

thats what bob lily, lee roy jordan, walt garrison, rayfield wright, mel renfro, herb adderly said when they were losing and they got tired of teammates not pulling their own weight on the field, making dumb mistakes, that only way teams were going to score on them was over dead bodies, and the dallas cowboys players did just that. No one scored a td on them last 5 games leading into the playoffs in 1970.

 

[Randy White]

I challenge ANYONE to show me how the 2007 team was more talented than the 1991 team (the year they lost to the Lions in the playoffs).

Position by position.Player vs player.I am going to lunch ...... you have an hour.

Oh, that's easy. I'd take the 2007 defense over the 1991 defense any day of the week and twice on Sundays:

Defense:

DLine

1991 = Tony Casillas, Russell Maryland, Tony Tolbert, Jim Jeffcoat
2007 = Marcus Spears, Jay Ratliff, Chris Canty

( At both points in time, Ratliff is the better, more dominant player of that bunch. The rest of the players are interchangeable )

Linebackers:

1991 = Ken Norton, Jack Del Rio, Vinson Smith
2007 = Greg Ellis, Akin Ayodele, Bradie James, DeMarcus Ware

( it's not even worth debating )

DBs:

1991: CB Larry Brown, CB Isaac Holt, FS Ray Horton, SS James Washington
2007: CB Anthony Henry, CB Terrence Newman, FS Ken Hamlin, SS Roy Williams

( see LBs )


Offense:

QB:

1991: Troy Aikman
2007: Tony Romo

( Troy Aikman )

RBs:

1991: Emmitt Smith, Darry Johnston
2007: Julius Jones, Marion Barber

( Not even close, 1991 by a landslide )

OL

1991: Tuini, Gogan, Stepnoski, Gesek, Newton
2007: Flo, Kozier, Gurode, Davis, Columbo

( 2007 has the advantage, both in size AND talent )

WR/TE:

1991: Irvin, Harper, Novacek { Martin, Roberts, Wright }
2007: T.O., Crayton, Witten {Fasano, Hurd, Austin }

( This one is a push. T.O. and Mike plus Jay and Jason cancel each other, leaving Harper vs Crayton which both are pretty much the same type of player only with different styles ).


Overall, the 2007 was more talented..

 

[zrinkill]

Not really.

Yes it is ..... compare them player to player like I did.

If they played head to head, the 2007 team would have absolutely beaten them, probably blown them out.

I do not believe that for a second.

 

[TNCowboy]

And Jimmy had no salary cap. They signed whoever they wanted. Wade can not do the same.

There was also very little in the way of free agents. There was Plan B, but teams got to protect like 40 players, IIRC.

In that regard, I'd say that Dallas has a huge advantage now vs. then, compared to the league as a whole, when you look at the # of teams today who are unwilling or unable to spend big $$$ on massive signing bonuses.

Most of Jimmy's players were drafted, and the few who weren't were traded for. How many big-time free agents played a huge role in the Cowboys' success during Jimmy's time? Novacek is the only one that comes to mind.

 

[zrinkill]

Oh, that's easy. I'd take the 2007 defense over the 1991 defense any day of the week and twice on Sundays:

Defense:

DLine

1991 = Tony Casillas, Russell Maryland, Tony Tolbert, Jim Jeffcoat
2007 = Marcus Spears, Jay Ratliff, Chris Canty

You can really tell when people forget what type of players Maryland,Tolbert, and Jeffcoat was.

Linebackers:

1991 = Ken Norton, Jack Del Rio, Vinson Smith
2007 = Greg Ellis, Akin Ayodele, Bradie James, DeMarcus Ware

( it's not even worth debating )

No its not since you are not comparing outside lb's to DE's like you should be.

DBs:

1991: CB Larry Brown, CB Isaac Holt, FS Ray Horton, SS James Washington
2007: CB Anthony Henry, CB Terrence Newman, FS Ken Hamlin, SS Roy Williams

( see LBs )

I would take Brown and Horton over Henry and Hamlin.

Offense:

QB:

1991: Troy Aikman
2007: Tony Romo

( Troy Aikman )

Surprised you got one right.

RBs:

1991: Emmitt Smith, Darry Johnston
2007: Julius Jones, Marion Barber

( Not even close, 1991 by a landslide )

Wow 2 in a row ..... but you should have placed it Barber and Cricket.

OL

1991: Tuini, Gogan, Stepnoski, Gesek, Newton
2007: Flo, Kozier, Gurode, Davis, Columbo

( 2007 has the advantage, both in size AND talent )

You left out Eric Williams who started a few games that year and took over the position. No way I would take the current line.

WR/TE:

1991: Irvin, Harper, Novacek { Martin, Roberts, Wright }
2007: T.O., Crayton, Witten {Fasano, Hurd, Austin }

( This one is a push. T.O. and Mike plus Jay and Jason cancel each other, leaving Harper vs Crayton which both are pretty much the same type of player only with different styles ).

TO cancels out Mike?

Of that group ..... the only one who wins from the 2009 squad is Witten.

Overall, the 2007 was more talented..

Not even close ....... 1991 hands down with the exception of Witten, Ware, Newman, Roy (who is no longer on this team), Davis, and Rat.

Thats 6 for 2007
and 16 for 1991

 

[cowboyjoe]

Oh, that's easy. I'd take the 2007 defense over the 1991 defense any day of the week and twice on Sundays:

Defense:

DLine

1991 = Tony Casillas, Russell Maryland, Tony Tolbert, Jim Jeffcoat
2007 = Marcus Spears, Jay Ratliff, Chris Canty

( At both points in time, Ratliff is the better, more dominant player of that bunch. The rest of the players are interchangeable )

Linebackers:

1991 = Ken Norton, Jack Del Rio, Vinson Smith
2007 = Greg Ellis, Akin Ayodele, Bradie James, DeMarcus Ware

( it's not even worth debating )

DBs:

1991: CB Larry Brown, CB Isaac Holt, FS Ray Horton, SS James Washington
2007: CB Anthony Henry, CB Terrence Newman, FS Ken Hamlin, SS Roy Williams

( see LBs )


Offense:

QB:

1991: Troy Aikman
2007: Tony Romo

( Troy Aikman )

RBs:

1991: Emmitt Smith, Darry Johnston
2007: Julius Jones, Marion Barber

( Not even close, 1991 by a landslide )

OL

1991: Tuini, Gogan, Stepnoski, Gesek, Newton
2007: Flo, Kozier, Gurode, Davis, Columbo

( 2007 has the advantage, both in size AND talent )

WR/TE:

1991: Irvin, Harper, Novacek { Martin, Roberts, Wright }
2007: T.O., Crayton, Witten {Fasano, Hurd, Austin }

( This one is a push. T.O. and Mike plus Jay and Jason cancel each other, leaving Harper vs Crayton which both are pretty much the same type of player only with different styles ).


Overall, the 2007 was more talented..

Exactly, what do you have to say now, Keith Brooking?

 

[zrinkill]

Exactly, what do you have to say now, Keith Brooking?

Brooking did not say that 1991 was more talented than 2007 ..... I did.

And I was right.

 

[Bach]

Brooking did not say that 1991 was more talented than 2007 ..... I did.

And I was right.

And I'd venture to say that the '91 team would've mopped the floor against the '07 team, namely because they played with heart and pride and had vastly superior coaching.

 

[zrinkill]

And I'd venture to say that the '91 team would've mopped the floor against the '07 team, namely because they played with heart and pride and had vastly superior coaching.

I agree but it was mostly the talent thing.

 

[BAT]

This is an outright lie. Brooking did not blast Jimmy Johnson. Paraphrasing he said that he wasn't sure that Jimmy Johnson won as many games as Wade did in his first 43 games.

Truth. Seriously Joe, you must have heard Brooking's comments out of context. You need to listen to the entire audio, only person Brooking blasted was No Name So Lame Dennis.

 

[cowboyjoe]

Brooking did not say that 1991 was more talented than 2007 ..... I did.

And I was right.

The way brooking put it, wade had more wins than jimmy johnson, but brooking didnt bother to say that the 2007 season was way more talented then jimmy johnson's first 3 years. Thats what bugged the heck out of me. I even emailed brooking a letter. I let him know how i felt straight up, i didnt go behind his back or anything. I went straight up to him with a email letter, now if he doesnt read it, thats another story.

Not my problem.