Mike Leach on QB accuracy

[jrumann59]

The interesting thing is Leach mentioned you can improve. So there's that.

You can if you take coaching, work on footwork and proper grip, release points. remember Romo used to work on various things that he saw other QBs do successfully, standing taller in the pocket, keeping his eyes down field, working with receivers on where they like the ball placed on certain routes etc. But to think you can take 65% comp% to say 75% its not going to happen. Just like in basket ball short shots have better chance of success just like shorter passes do. Mechanics and foot work really impact pass ball placement, 10 yards and under you can arm it all day.

 

[kskboys]

lol - come on, do you really think every starting shortstop is in his position based solely on accuracy of his throws - that whether a throw hits the 1st baseman in the chest or at the hip overrides who has the best glove and range and arm strength and game instincts? A first baseman doesn't have to have a throw in his chest to easily catch the ball and get the out, but the shortstop actually has to get to the ball, field it cleanly understand all the variables that make up the situation, and be able to make a strong enough throw to get beat the runner before the 1st baseman even has the chance to catch the ball.

If accuracy were the only skill that mattered they could find a slow guy with an average glove, but a deadly accurate arm to play SS. But it's not. It's not a coincidence that guys with range and a great glove happen to play shortstop - it's not as if those traits are simply part of having an accurate arm.

The throw has to be catchable on 99.9% of his throws. Maybe higher.

 

[Miller]

And exactly why I've said that if anyone's else's has a better number or measurement I'm all ears.

But, as always, we have one side of the aisle with career numbers and the other side saying "I saw him miss a pass once".

I think the truth is somewhere in between honestly. I like him throwing on the run better and have seen him drop dimes rolling out and throwing downfield...a couple in games late this year. I also think our offense under Garrett...the real problem here...is simple enough where he does have a lot of shorter throws that make his percentages rise. My accuracy issues with him have always been standing in the pocket trying to hit 20-25 yards downfield. But again that doesn't make him "inaccurate" overall...just in a certain facet I see. Doesn't make him bad either as I think we can win with him with other things he brings to the table that we don't use.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

And I think your premise is based on the game in HS!!!! It appears your perception of pro baseball is completely flawed!!! This would be a much better parallel if OF had been used as the example. There are much greater variances in accuracy in the OF.

Very very little lack of accuracy is allowed at the SS position in the pros. SS's who are inaccurate are moved to other positions in A ball.

The things that are common to the position of Short Stop and QB, to name a few: Accuracy (not saying that all SS or QBs have this but all good ones do), mobility (again, not saying they all have it but...), the ability to throw from different platforms (ditto). Now, of course all players and situations are unique so it stands to reason that there is no universal statement of fact in any of this but, these are the things that you desire in both positions and things that make players at both positions desirable.

The huge differences IMO are, size and throwing mechanics for each sport. As a rule, a lot of SS are not overly big. QBs are typically bigger and it matters in the NFL. Lots of QBs are or were former Baseball players and That's one of those deals where you understand the differences in throwing motions etc. However, if you try and take a SS and turn him into a QB, it doesn't always translate because it's a completely different mechanic to throw a football, as opposed to a baseball. You might be able to be accurate and all the rest with a Baseball but that doesn't guarantee that you will be accurate with a pig skin. A perfect example of this is Henson, a few years back. If you watch his throwing motion in College, it was much better then when he came back from the Yankees and joined the Cowboys. At Michigan, he was a can't miss QB prospect. When he came back, his throwing motion was that of a Third Baseman.

 

[CouchCoach]

Why is it we cannot discuss the QB position without this devolving into childish insults? I don't notice that about Elliott or Cooper or Lawrence but we cannot discuss the QB without the "hater" word getting tossed around or posters calling each other stupid. why is that?

This started with Romo and in some instances is connected because a lot of the Romorooters became Daksters.

I was always in that area in between and see the warts in both of their games as well as the positives so I don't get this "all in" on Prescott like he's a relative of yours. So what if someone else doesn't think he's as great as you do? Insulting them going to convince them?

You love Dak? Fine, I don't give a fat happy rat's ***.

You hate Dak? Fine, I don't give a happy fat rat's ***.

 

[Corso]

In 2018, Dak was 10th in completion percentage. Above terrible QBs like Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Patrick Mahomes...

1 Drew Brees New Orleans Saints QB 73.7%
2 Kirk Cousins Minnesota Vikings QB 70.1%
3 Carson Wentz Philadelphia Eagles QB 69.6%
4 Matt Ryan Atlanta Falcons QB 69.4%
5 Nick Foles Philadelphia Eagles QB 69.2%
6 Derek Carr Oakland Raiders QB 68.9%
7 Marcus Mariota Tennessee Titans QB 68.9%
8 Cam Newton Carolina Panthers QB 67.9%
9 Deshaun Watson Houston Texans QB 67.5%
10 Dak Prescott Dallas Cowboys QB 67.3%
11 Ben Roethlisberger Pittsburgh Steelers QB 67.0%
12 Ryan Fitzpatrick Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB 66.7%
12 Philip Rivers Los Angeles Chargers QB 66.7%
14 Andrew Luck Indianapolis Colts QB 66.2%
15 Tom Brady New England Patriots QB 66.2%
16 Matthew Stafford Detroit Lions QB 66.1%
17 Mitchell Trubisky Chicago Bears QB 66.0%
18 Eli Manning New York Giants QB 66.0%
19 Russell Wilson Seattle Seahawks QB 65.6%
20 Patrick Mahomes Kansas City Chiefs QB 65.3%
21 Jameis Winston Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB 64.6%
22 Ryan Tannehill Miami Dolphins QB 64.2%
22 Nick Mullens San Francisco 49ers QB 64.2%
24 Baker Mayfield Cleveland Browns QB 63.8%
25 Jared Goff Los Angeles Rams QB 63.4%
26 Alex Smith Washington Commanders QB 62.5%
27 Aaron Rodgers Green Bay Packers QB 62.3%
28 Case Keenum Denver Broncos QB 62.3%
29 Andy Dalton Cincinnati Bengals QB 61.9%
30 Joe Flacco Baltimore Ravens QB 61.2%

I was basically mocking the redundancy of this topic. It's comical.

 

[kskboys]

The things that are common to the position of Short Stop and QB, to name a few: Accuracy (not saying that all SS or QBs have this but all good ones do), mobility (again, not saying they all have it but...), the ability to throw from different platforms (ditto). Now, of course all players and situations are unique so it stands to reason that there is no universal statement of fact in any of this but, these are the things that you desire in both positions and things that make players at both positions desirable.

The huge differences IMO are, size and throwing mechanics for each sport. As a rule, a lot of SS are not overly big. QBs are typically bigger and it matters in the NFL. Lots of QBs are or were former Baseball players and That's one of those deals where you understand the differences in throwing motions etc. However, if you try and take a SS and turn him into a QB, it doesn't always translate because it's a completely different mechanic to throw a football, as opposed to a baseball. You might be able to be accurate and all the rest with a Baseball but that doesn't guarantee that you will be accurate with a pig skin. A perfect example of this is Henson, a few years back. If you watch his throwing motion in College, it was much better then when he came back from the Yankees and joined the Cowboys. At Michigan, he was a can't miss QB prospect. When he came back, his throwing motion was that of a Third Baseman.

The QB position is much more aligned w/ that of a pitcher. A pitcher can get by w/ some accuracy issues if his stuff is good enough.

Baseball and football are completely different hosses.

 

[Corso]

Why is it we cannot discuss the QB position without this devolving into childish insults? I don't notice that about Elliott or Cooper or Lawrence but we cannot discuss the QB without the "hater" word getting tossed around or posters calling each other stupid. why is that?

This started with Romo and in some instances is connected because a lot of the Romorooters became Daksters.

I was always in that area in between and see the warts in both of their games as well as the positives so I don't get this "all in" on Prescott like he's a relative of yours. So what if someone else doesn't think he's as great as you do? Insulting them going to convince them?

You love Dak? Fine, I don't give a fat happy rat's ***.

You hate Dak? Fine, I don't give a happy fat rat's ***.

jhgjhsjghkljgifgifjgfjgifhidjsgrijrrg!

 

[Pantone282C]

Yeah, but "I watch the games!!!!!!"

The eye test - no ophthalmologist required.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

The entire knowledgeable football world of former players, coaches, and analysts constantly discusses Dak's accuracy issues, but of course, it's made up.

Swing passes and dump downs don't count. Dak simply REFUSES to make most throws, and when he does let it go down the seam, it ain't pretty at all.

You have been this since 2016........all Dak has done is win and win and win. You may wanna look at the big picture....

 

[ItzKelz]

There is no coach that can teach Dak how to throw a football. You're either accurate, or you're not.

This isn't about poise. Dak has poise. So it isn't an experience fix that comes with getting "comfortable". Dak is comfortable.

And that's a problem because this just comes down to lack of ability.

Darius Jackson can practice all he wants, but he'll never be Zeke. Dak can work himself to the bone, but he'll never be an elite passer.

Dak is accurate though. He is just over analyzed because he plays with the Cowboys. Same thing happened to Romo n regards to being over analyzed.

Has Dak missed some passes... Absolutely. But every QB does and it doesn't get over analyzed when they miss those passes.

No QB is perfect but you have to be perfect but as Cowboys QB you have to be or you are the worst QB in the NFL.

 

[G2]

Why is it we cannot discuss the QB position without this devolving into childish insults? I don't notice that about Elliott or Cooper or Lawrence but we cannot discuss the QB without the "hater" word getting tossed around or posters calling each other stupid. why is that?

This started with Romo and in some instances is connected because a lot of the Romorooters became Daksters.

I was always in that area in between and see the warts in both of their games as well as the positives so I don't get this "all in" on Prescott like he's a relative of yours. So what if someone else doesn't think he's as great as you do? Insulting them going to convince them?

You love Dak? Fine, I don't give a fat happy rat's ***.

You hate Dak? Fine, I don't give a happy fat rat's ***.

Goes both ways.

 

[G2]

Dak is accurate though. He is just over analyzed because he plays with the Cowboys. Same thing happened to Romo n regards to being over analyzed.

Has Dak missed some passes... Absolutely. But every QB does and it doesn't get over analyzed when they miss those passes.

No QB is perfect but you have to be perfect but as Cowboys QB you have to be or you are the worst QB in the NFL.

I remember hearing here that he "couldn't throw the back shoulder fade." Which is complete BS.

Some fans get stuck on a phrase and really beat it to death. Even if it's not accurate.

 

[CouchCoach]

I think the truth is somewhere in between honestly. I like him throwing on the run better and have seen him drop dimes rolling out and throwing downfield...a couple in games late this year. I also think our offense under Garrett...the real problem here...is simple enough where he does have a lot of shorter throws that make his percentages rise. My accuracy issues with him have always been standing in the pocket trying to hit 20-25 yards downfield. But again that doesn't make him "inaccurate" overall...just in a certain facet I see. Doesn't make him bad either as I think we can win with him with other things he brings to the table that we don't use.

How many QB's that have won rings are "carrying their teams" as opposed to executing the plays utilizing the talent around them? Some that did just that were Starr, Bradshaw, Montana and Aikman, the QB's of the teams of the decades and that's all Brady does, get the ball into the hands of someone that can do some damage. Just look at the talent surrounding those first four QB's, the HOF is full of them.

Prescott is accurate enough to get it done but he will need some players just like those 4 had. And what doesn't get mentioned nearly enough when the accuracy issue is brought up, and all 5 of those QB's are full of it, is leadership. That's the strongest necessary trait and he has had that since I first saw him in his junior year at Miss St.

Hell, none of them are perfect. The question is if they build the team right, can they contend consistently with Dak Prescott at the helm? I do believe so.

 

[OmerV]

The throw has to be catchable on 99.9% of his throws. Maybe higher.

First, every player makes errors, and 99.9% is not a realistic number by any stretch, especially given some of the throws that have to be made from in the hole and on the run and at awkward angles. But granted the throws have to be accurate close to every time. But here are things you are missing:

1. Most errors at SS are fielding errors. The throw doesn't matter if a player is less of a fielder.

2. What is "catchable" on a throw to first base isn't dependent on a deadly accurate throw to the chest. A throw at the shoes or a little over the head, or a few feet down the line one way or the other is still an easy catch for a 1st baseman. And even most throws in the dirt are still catchable, or a throw a 1st baseman has to jump a little for will work if it gets there early enough for him to come down before the runner gets there.

3. The SS has to cover more ground than every other infielder, so range is a huge factor. If one player is slightly more accurate throwing the ball, but he can't get to balls in the hole or up the middle as well as another player, and he has less arm strength to make those throws, he isn't going to be as good at the position.

4. Instincts are a huge factor at SS - more so than any position next to catcher. He is involved more than any other position player except catcher.

Again, I'm not talking about a massive difference in accuracy. I'm talking about a slight difference that when put in the context of the overall skillset is not enough to keep the more athletic, better fielding, more instinctual player off the field.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The QB position is much more aligned w/ that of a pitcher. A pitcher can get by w/ some accuracy issues if his stuff is good enough.

Baseball and football are completely different hosses.

I used to agree with that. Not as much anymore, but it doesn't matter, the same goes for a Pitcher, in terms of motion and mechanics. The more NFL Teams that run College Offenses, the more the SS analogy applies. In terms of Leach's statements, the SS absolutely applies because of Leach's Offense.

In the Majors, you better have all world stuff to get by with inaccuracy because I've seen guys with 100+ stuff selling cars. In the majors, everybody can hit a fast ball so you better be able to throw it right by everybody with once in a lifetime kinda stuff or you better be able to be accurate with your fastball or you better have a tone of movement on your stuff.

But you are right, Baseball and Football are totally different sports, that goes without saying.

 

[Stash]

The eye test - no ophthalmologist required.

 

[CouchCoach]

Goes both ways.

Sure it does, I didn't say it didn't. I just don't get why discussing the QB gets everyone drawing swords and getting angry and nasty.

 

[Stash]

Sure it does, I didn't say it didn't. I just don't get why discussing the QB gets everyone drawing swords and getting angry and nasty.

It's always been a passionate subject for debate. You can go back to the great Quincy/Hutch days, and it's always elicited strong responses. I think a lot of it has to do with the visibility of the position and the fact that it is the most important one in all of sports.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Dak is accurate though. He is just over analyzed because he plays with the Cowboys. Same thing happened to Romo n regards to being over analyzed.

Has Dak missed some passes... Absolutely. But every QB does and it doesn't get over analyzed when they miss those passes.

No QB is perfect but you have to be perfect but as Cowboys QB you have to be or you are the worst QB in the NFL.

He isn't really. I mean, there are some throws that he throws really well and we run a lot of that stuff but, there are some throws that he is just inconsistent with and I have no idea why. I watch him and he makes much harder throws more accurately at times. Then, he just sails balls that are actually easy. I mean, they are throws that I can still make and I'm getting older. Seriously, I have no explanation as to why this is. He is just not accurate in certain situations.