Mike Leach on QB accuracy

[Stash]

Stash while your opinions on things are insightful you of all people should know the difference between accuracy and completion percentage while closely linked, completion percentage does not tell the whole story on accuracy. A highly accurate QB can have crappy comp% because he has crappy receivers, a high comp% QB could be inaccurate but gets his ball within the vicinity of a WR and they catch it but maybe YAC yardage is impacted.

Good example in the NBA FG% a post player will have higher FG% does that make him more accurate than say a guy that lives beyond the 3 point line

If you can give me a better indicator number, I'm all ears. Until then, I'm sorry, but it's a bunch of baseless talk and opinion.

 

[kskboys]

If you can give me a better indicator number, I'm all ears. Until then, I'm sorry, but it's a bunch of baseless talk and opinion.

Dak's completion percentage show that he is simply not inaccurate to the nth. It may not paint the complete pic, but it does show that he is not entirely inaccurate.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I mean, it's not like we're pulling this observation out of the air. Almost EVERY commentator who has coached or played the game has said this. Even the great Roger Staubach said it.

Unfortunately, you are entering Kobayashi Maru territory with this post. I've learned that you can never win this argument, let alone, have rational discussion around it.

 

[Miller]

Show me a qb who had a less talented WR/TE unit to work with the first 5 games of this season.
How can you make this statement and pretend this wasnt a consideration?

I mentioned earlier that Cooper helped him AND AGAIN the stat wasn't just 5 games...he had regressed for a SEASON and five games. Stop ignoring that. You took the whole paragraph, which made perfect sense and took one thing out of it to get angry about. Inaccuracy is just a phrase dealing with some parts of the QBs game. People getting so upset is comical.

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/player-completion-percentage-statistics/2016/

From 2 seasons back

As with most other passing statistics, the baseline for what’s expected of a quarterback is higher for completion percentage now than it was a generation ago. Even subpar quarterbacks are very likely to have a completion percentage above 60%. In today’s game there’s not a whole lot of differentiation between quarterbacks when looking at this statistics as almost all regular quarterbacks have a completion percentage between 55% and 70%.

 

[CouchCoach]

The debate about Prescott's accuracy is useless because he is going to be signed and he is going to be QB1 for the foreseeable future so we might as well adjust to that.

The most useless part of this debate is the response with stats as a retort. He can make most of the throws but he misses some NFL QB101 throws and consistency is the key because the play caller has to rely on proper execution. On the plus side, he is very focused on ball protection as a passer, much better than as a ball handler.

I agree with Aikman and Leach, accuracy cannot be taught. If they could teach it, Tebow would still be playing. And we don't know which of these QB's picked in the last draft are going to make it. But Prescott will make it. Maybe not as a SB QB but he will be a NFL QB for quite some time.

But what they can teach is more pocket awareness and not leading the NFL in sacks. That's nothing but motivation for a DC with a good front 7 and that must stop because this offense is not good enough to overcome negative plays on a consistent basis.

I wanted them to go through his contract year and keep an option open but that does not look like it's going to happen. I just hope they realize what they have, a good QB that is going to need help and if that help is not there, he is not going to be a Tier 1 to load the team on his back and elevate those around him. What more proof do we need than him without Cooper or Elliott. He needs players around him better at their positions than he is at his.

 

[Miller]

You should reply to me if you're replying to me, otherwise I might not see it. But I'm fine with civil disagreements.



It's certainly more important than a small portion of the whole. That's undeniable.



That's not "real", that's interpretation. Again, if he actually couldn't "go downfield", his completion percentage and yards per completion would show it. They do not. Is it not also notable that once he had an actually capable receiver, those "5 games" and the trend were over with? You're not saying that's mere coincidence, are you?



And if what you are hypothetically trying to claim were true, his career numbers would reflect it. They don't and it's not.



No need to create a strawman here. Nobody ever said what you're claiming. The "context" you're referring to doesn't exist.



Legitimate faults? Sure. Absolutely. But not things people invent in their heads that aren't born out by what's actually happening, and the numbers that show what is happening.

I tried responding to your post but it kept saying the mods had to review for some reason so I just posted.

 

[G2]

The interesting thing is Leach mentioned you can improve. So there's that.

 

[OmerV]

Those guys you are describing have long changed positions. Major league SS's might throw the ball away a couple times a season, and generally that's from not getting a good grip, not from accurcy issues.

Your last sentence might be true, however those guys are also given a position change.

Major league SS's do not and cannot lack accuracy.

I actually don't think this is a good parallel. QB's w/ questionable accuracy have things they can do to help make up for it. At SS, if you can't catch and throw the ball accurately, you are moved.

I think what you're describing is the HS level, possibly some in college. In the pros, some glove deficiencies can be overcome if the bat is good enough, or some range can be sacrificed(Derek Jeter, for instance). But accuracy issues are simply not allowed.

No, that's not true. Your premise is based on the idea that every starting shortstop has exactly the same level of accuracy, and if you have less of a level of accuracy you will no longer be a shortstop. That's a blatantly false perception.

I think what you may be getting caught up in is thinking I am talking about the difference between a SS who is lazar on with every throw and a SS who will consistently pull the 1st baseman off the bag and make throws that sail into the dugout or down the right field line. Again, I said teams would sacrifice "some degree" of accuracy if the overall skillset and ability to make plays is better. The bottom line is making plays and getting outs, and accuracy is one of the factors, but it is not the only factor. In the end, a team will go with the shortstop who's overall skillset allows him to make the most plays and have the most impact.

 

[AKATheRake]

Timing has a lot to do with where the ball goes and I think that was the main issue with Dak and the WR's.

The o-line was interchanging it's players because of issues. The Wr's were interchanging players because of injuries, additions and subtractions.

All of that affects practicing together, playing on game day together and generally overall cohesiveness that affects the timing of when the ball gets out to when the route is properly run in stride.

I am in the belief we will see better timing, release and placement of where the ball is after a good offseason, especially if there is not a plethora of injuries along the o-line and WR positions.

We were seeing better accuracy and timing with the WR's from Dak nearing the end of the regular season and entering the playoffs.

P.S - Just looking now and this is my 5,000th post.

 

[kskboys]

No, that's not true. Your premise is based on the idea that every starting shortstop has exactly the same level of accuracy, and if you have less of a level of accuracy you will no longer be a shortstop. That's a blatantly false perception.

I think what you may be getting caught up in is thinking I am talking about the difference between a SS who is lazar on with every throw and a SS who will consistently pull the 1st baseman off the bag and make throws that sail into the dugout or down the right field line. Again, I said teams would sacrifice "some degree" of accuracy if the overall skillset and ability to make plays is better. The bottom line is making plays and getting outs, and accuracy is one of the factors, but it is not the only factor.

And I think your premise is based on the game in HS!!!! It appears your perception of pro baseball is completely flawed!!! This would be a much better parallel if OF had been used as the example. There are much greater variances in accuracy in the OF.

Very very little lack of accuracy is allowed at the SS position in the pros. SS's who are inaccurate are moved to other positions in A ball.

 

[NorthwestDallas40]

Dak isn't accurate? Who knew? Thanks guys! Hard hitting stuff!

In 2018, Dak was 10th in completion percentage. Above terrible QBs like Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Patrick Mahomes...

1 Drew Brees New Orleans Saints QB 73.7%
2 Kirk Cousins Minnesota Vikings QB 70.1%
3 Carson Wentz Philadelphia Eagles QB 69.6%
4 Matt Ryan Atlanta Falcons QB 69.4%
5 Nick Foles Philadelphia Eagles QB 69.2%
6 Derek Carr Oakland Raiders QB 68.9%
7 Marcus Mariota Tennessee Titans QB 68.9%
8 Cam Newton Carolina Panthers QB 67.9%
9 Deshaun Watson Houston Texans QB 67.5%
10 Dak Prescott Dallas Cowboys QB 67.3%
11 Ben Roethlisberger Pittsburgh Steelers QB 67.0%
12 Ryan Fitzpatrick Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB 66.7%
12 Philip Rivers Los Angeles Chargers QB 66.7%
14 Andrew Luck Indianapolis Colts QB 66.2%
15 Tom Brady New England Patriots QB 66.2%
16 Matthew Stafford Detroit Lions QB 66.1%
17 Mitchell Trubisky Chicago Bears QB 66.0%
18 Eli Manning New York Giants QB 66.0%
19 Russell Wilson Seattle Seahawks QB 65.6%
20 Patrick Mahomes Kansas City Chiefs QB 65.3%
21 Jameis Winston Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB 64.6%
22 Ryan Tannehill Miami Dolphins QB 64.2%
22 Nick Mullens San Francisco 49ers QB 64.2%
24 Baker Mayfield Cleveland Browns QB 63.8%
25 Jared Goff Los Angeles Rams QB 63.4%
26 Alex Smith Washington Commanders QB 62.5%
27 Aaron Rodgers Green Bay Packers QB 62.3%
28 Case Keenum Denver Broncos QB 62.3%
29 Andy Dalton Cincinnati Bengals QB 61.9%
30 Joe Flacco Baltimore Ravens QB 61.2%

 

[Miller]

Stash while your opinions on things are insightful you of all people should know the difference between accuracy and completion percentage while closely linked, completion percentage does not tell the whole story on accuracy. A highly accurate QB can have crappy comp% because he has crappy receivers, a high comp% QB could be inaccurate but gets his ball within the vicinity of a WR and they catch it but maybe YAC yardage is impacted.

Good example in the NBA FG% a post player will have higher FG% does that make him more accurate than say a guy that lives beyond the 3 point line

Thank you!! This is what I've been saying the whole time. Just because he's 66% doesn't make him accurate. There is all types of stats within that stat that go towards other variables. As earlier pointed out he can be perfect within 15 yards and bad downfield in a game and have a high completion percentage but it doesn't equate to accurate. It's comical that people are discounting what Aikman said like he's a shill vs our mensa board...myself included.

 

[Stash]

I tried responding to your post but it kept saying the mods had to review for some reason so I just posted.

Gotcha! I probably used a cuss word or something, I have been known!

 

[Miller]

In 2018, Dak was 10th in completion percentage. Above terrible QBs like Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Patrick Mahomes...

1 Drew Brees New Orleans Saints QB 73.7%
2 Kirk Cousins Minnesota Vikings QB 70.1%
3 Carson Wentz Philadelphia Eagles QB 69.6%
4 Matt Ryan Atlanta Falcons QB 69.4%
5 Nick Foles Philadelphia Eagles QB 69.2%
6 Derek Carr Oakland Raiders QB 68.9%
7 Marcus Mariota Tennessee Titans QB 68.9%
8 Cam Newton Carolina Panthers QB 67.9%
9 Deshaun Watson Houston Texans QB 67.5%
10 Dak Prescott Dallas Cowboys QB 67.3%
11 Ben Roethlisberger Pittsburgh Steelers QB 67.0%
12 Ryan Fitzpatrick Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB 66.7%
12 Philip Rivers Los Angeles Chargers QB 66.7%
14 Andrew Luck Indianapolis Colts QB 66.2%
15 Tom Brady New England Patriots QB 66.2%
16 Matthew Stafford Detroit Lions QB 66.1%
17 Mitchell Trubisky Chicago Bears QB 66.0%
18 Eli Manning New York Giants QB 66.0%
19 Russell Wilson Seattle Seahawks QB 65.6%
20 Patrick Mahomes Kansas City Chiefs QB 65.3%
21 Jameis Winston Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB 64.6%
22 Ryan Tannehill Miami Dolphins QB 64.2%
22 Nick Mullens San Francisco 49ers QB 64.2%
24 Baker Mayfield Cleveland Browns QB 63.8%
25 Jared Goff Los Angeles Rams QB 63.4%
26 Alex Smith Washington Commanders QB 62.5%
27 Aaron Rodgers Green Bay Packers QB 62.3%
28 Case Keenum Denver Broncos QB 62.3%
29 Andy Dalton Cincinnati Bengals QB 61.9%
30 Joe Flacco Baltimore Ravens QB 61.2%

And as I put right above a majority are in the mid 60s making an argument about percentage and accuracy moot.

 

[Miller]

Gotcha! I probably used a cuss word or something, I have been known!

I thought it was because I had accidentally put a d work in as in "a d good QB" but it wasn't...oh well

 

[Stash]

Thank you!! This is what I've been saying the whole time. Just because he's 66% doesn't make him accurate. There is all types of stats within that stat that go towards other variables. As earlier pointed out he can be perfect within 15 yards and bad downfield in a game and have a high completion percentage but it doesn't equate to accurate. It's comical that people are discounting what Aikman said like he's a shill vs our mensa board

And exactly why I've said that if anyone's else's has a better number or measurement I'm all ears.

But, as always, we have one side of the aisle with career numbers and the other side saying "I saw him miss a pass once".

 

[Direwolf63]

This is a horrible passing offense. Are you disputing that?

Do you really think Dak was the reason for this year's success? Remember 3-5?

The defense rose up and got this team in the playoffs. It had very little to do with Dak.

Let's update Garrett, 1990's ancient, antiquated, predictable, obsolete offense and see if Dak can run a modern offense.

You are convinced he can't do it. I think he has a good chance that he can. I'm keeping an open mind. You mind is totally closed. Fine.

If he can't run a modern offense you may have a point.

 

[HonestOffer]

Who taught the shortstop?

 

[OmerV]

And I think your premise is based on the game in HS!!!! It appears your perception of pro baseball is completely flawed!!! This would be a much better parallel if OF had been used as the example. There are much greater variances in accuracy in the OF.

Very very little lack of accuracy is allowed at the SS position in the pros. SS's who are inaccurate are moved to other positions in A ball.

lol - come on, do you really think every starting shortstop is in his position based solely on accuracy of his throws - that whether a throw hits the 1st baseman in the chest or at the hip overrides who has the best glove and range and arm strength and game instincts? A first baseman doesn't have to have a throw in his chest to easily catch the ball and get the out, but the shortstop actually has to get to the ball, field it cleanly understand all the variables that make up the situation, and be able to make a strong enough throw to get beat the runner before the 1st baseman even has the chance to catch the ball.

If accuracy were the only skill that mattered they could find a slow guy with an average glove, but a deadly accurate arm to play SS. But it's not. It's not a coincidence that guys with range and a great glove happen to play shortstop - it's not as if those traits are simply part of having an accurate arm.

 

[kskboys]

And exactly why I've said that if anyone's else's has a better number or measurement I'm all ears.

But, as always, we have one side of the aisle with career numbers and the other side saying "I saw him miss a pass once".

Right?

Dak has thrown some stinkers and he's thrown some great passes. Yes, great. He actually started really coming around this last season, and it appears he may be on the cusp of taking that next step. And now we have a different OC, which was one of the major major issues w/ Dak. Hopefully, Moore was shaking his head at how bad Linehan's scheme was and has a pile of brilliance just ready to blind everyone!!!!