Mistake not leaving Joseph as the starter

[Jarntt]

This discussion makes me think. Which TB WR most often lines up on the Offensive right side? Definitely an "over" bet on receptions/yards

 

[Cowboys0988]

Fact!
Brady is licking his chops just waiting to torch this secondary.

Goodwin bout to have a game.

 

[CowboyoWales]

Yeah, to me it doesn't matter why he's not making better decisions. I only care that he repeatedly does make them. Pre snap penalties like lining up in the neutral zone is the rock bottom of dumb penalties. Or, interfering with a kick return calling fair catch. Multiple special teams penalties and dumb choices. He's a step or more behind. He gets torched on a regular basis with a double move.
So size, speed and athleticism isn't an accolade I'd use until there's some evidence of it. All I see is a lost dude on & off the field.

But hey! He's a good tackler on cover teams.

Yep, taking all of that as being correct, one question is why are we continuing to play a cover secondary system when Joseph playing press with Hooper shading and offer up Diggs on man coverage. It's a matter of what's more important: DQ's scheme (which appears to be suspect in other aspects ie Pass-Rush), or setting up schemes that gets the best out of the players (eg don't allow Joseph time to think).

 

[Creeper]

Yeah, to me it doesn't matter why he's not making better decisions. I only care that he repeatedly does make them. Pre snap penalties like lining up in the neutral zone is the rock bottom of dumb penalties. Or, interfering with a kick return calling fair catch. Multiple special teams penalties and dumb choices. He's a step or more behind. He gets torched on a regular basis with a double move.
So size, speed and athleticism isn't an accolade I'd use until there's some evidence of it. All I see is a lost dude on & off the field.

But hey! He's a good tackler on cover teams.

I only remember him getting beat on a double move once. But even if I miss a bunch of plays, the rest of the Cowboys CBs have been beaten multiple times on double moves as well. Like I said, there really is not a fix for this at this point in time. I also don't think he gives up a lot of separation. Joseph reminds me of another promising CB the Cowboys had back in the 70s who never made it. I can't recall his name. He would also run with the receivers but they would always complete passes on him because he had 0 ball skills. To me, Joseph simply does not know how to play the position which requires as much technique as any position on the field.

Again, what we don't know is if he is a teachable kid. If not then he will never get any better. If he is then we have to open up the possibility that he is not being properly coached and developed.

 

[Mr_437]

I do think Joseph got a quick hook because it was only 1 bad half of coverage by him. However, Wright has come in and made a few play and led the team in tackles a couple games.

I'm glad Mullen got to play and was extra crispy like ever CB opposite Diggs, so I don't have to here about him.

It's Wright or bust for me. An decent alternative to playing Wright is to leave Bland outside and play Alexander in the slot.

 

[G2]

I only remember him getting beat on a double move once. But even if I miss a bunch of plays, the rest of the Cowboys CBs have been beaten multiple times on double moves as well. Like I said, there really is not a fix for this at this point in time. I also don't think he gives up a lot of separation. Joseph reminds me of another promising CB the Cowboys had back in the 70s who never made it. I can't recall his name. He would also run with the receivers but they would always complete passes on him because he had 0 ball skills. To me, Joseph simply does not know how to play the position which requires as much technique as any position on the field.

Again, what we don't know is if he is a teachable kid. If not then he will never get any better. If he is then we have to open up the possibility that he is not being properly coached and developed.

We do know he's not coachable. He's a second round draft pick that has performed worse than a 5th. He's missed time and the word around the ranch is that he has an attitude. Joseph isn't a promising CB.
I'm not waiting until year 4 or 5 to develop a guy who hasn't developed.
The only reason he saw the field was out of necessity.

 

[Creeper]

We do know he's not coachable. He's a second round draft pick that has performed worse than a 5th. He's missed time and the word around the ranch is that he has an attitude. Joseph isn't a promising CB.
I'm not waiting until year 4 or 5 to develop a guy who hasn't developed.
The only reason he saw the field was out of necessity.

Joseph came into the league with relatively little experience and was considered a raw prospect, compared to someone like Assante Samuel Jr. But I think he Cowboys were hoping Stooke of Campbell would drop to them. When they didn;t they panicked and took Joseph. Based on who they were looking at the key attribute they wanted was speed.

 

[john van brocklin]

Goodwin bout to have a game.

Hope for the best..

 

[G2]

Joseph came into the league with relatively little experience and was considered a raw prospect, compared to someone like Assante Samuel Jr. But I think he Cowboys were hoping Stooke of Campbell would drop to them. When they didn;t they panicked and took Joseph. Based on who they were looking at the key attribute they wanted was speed.

I'm not concerned wit a further explanation of the reach it was drafting him. Results speak for themselves. After his rookie contract is up, see ya!
Assante Samuel? Not close really, he's made plays on the field and was pronounce rookie of the week a couple of times if I remember. Not the same caliber. The "project" theory is convenient, but unless he does a 180, I'm going by what we've seen.

 

[xwalker]

Who knows. Either that or they couldn't grasp the scheme and it is concerning that both couldn't see meaningful snaps over the course of the season. A rookie WR is one thing, but with our injuries at WR, it was a downer to see his only highlight be a lowlight offsides penalty.

Cox, IMO it seems like early on this offseason they wanted to get an upgrade over him and they signed Barr. Clark got playing time right away when he was cleared for contact but Cox rarely saw the field unless the game was a blowout/he was actually active. The team wanted Gifford over Cox over the entire season until LVE was out.

With Joseph, it was a redflag with him in college being kicked off two teams before declaring for the draft.
I don't recall that with Cox/Tolbert.

The most logical conclusion is that Joseph has the same issue as Jabril Cox....just not ready or not good enough.

Claims that his issues are character related are just "confirmation bias". People want that to be the problem.

Special Teams are all about effort and being coachable. Joseph meets those requirements on special teams.

It's fan absurdity to say he doesn't put in the effort and/or is not coachable on defense despite proof that he meets those requirements on ST.

 

[John813]

The most logical conclusion is that Joseph has the same issue as Jabril Cox....just not ready or not good enough.

Claims that his issues are character related are just "confirmation bias". People want that to be the problem.

Special Teams are all about effort and being coachable. Joseph meets those requirements on special teams.

It's fan absurdity to say he doesn't put in the effort and/or is not coachable on defense despite proof that he meets those requirements on ST.

My initial comment was, "could be a knucklehead". I'm not against Joseph for any of the off the field issues that happened this past offseason. I want our players to succeed. I don't have that complex where I hope a player does well to "prove me right"
He was suspended in LSU and chose to sit out a year in the portal than comeback to the "DB-U".
He even soured in Kentucky with Stoops due to his dumb penalties
Jerry a few weeks ago went on the air and said “It’s time for him to become a man…He’s gotta say its time now. He should accept a higher level of responsibility. He’s got more people depending on him. Its time for some of the side stuff to ease its way out of his life.”

This isn't some confirmation bias or me wanting him to fail. Jerry Jones of all people publicly said it's time for him to be a man and take a higher responsibility.

So, yea, I'll stick with my original comment of him possibly being a knucklehead based off his prior actions in the CFB/Jerry's comments.

He was a raw corner by CFB playing standards. Maybe he isn't ready yet. But I strongly believe there's some issues where he lost the boundary spot so quickly. Cowboys are willing to go through growing pains if need be.

 

[KJJ]

Joseph was given an opportunity and was terrible, which led to a competition and ultimately him losing his job. That position will once again have to be addressed in the draft.

 

[blueblood70]

I’m sorry but Dallas made a huge mistake not letting Joseph get all the reps possible before the playoffs.

Now #2 corner is clearly our biggest weakness headed into the playoffs and as bad as it sounds Kelvin Joseph is still our best option.

For all the hate Anthony Brown received on this forum his loss may be what sends us home early in the playoffs.

wow April fools posts came early!

 

[xwalker]

My initial comment was, "could be a knucklehead". I'm not against Joseph for any of the off the field issues that happened this past offseason. I want our players to succeed. I don't have that complex where I hope a player does well to "prove me right"
He was suspended in LSU and chose to sit out a year in the portal than comeback to the "DB-U".
He even soured in Kentucky with Stoops due to his dumb penalties
Jerry a few weeks ago went on the air and said “It’s time for him to become a man…He’s gotta say its time now. He should accept a higher level of responsibility. He’s got more people depending on him. Its time for some of the side stuff to ease its way out of his life.”

This isn't some confirmation bias or me wanting him to fail. Jerry Jones of all people publicly said it's time for him to be a man and take a higher responsibility.

So, yea, I'll stick with my original comment of him possibly being a knucklehead based off his prior actions in the CFB/Jerry's comments.

He was a raw corner by CFB playing standards. Maybe he isn't ready yet. But I strongly believe there's some issues where he lost the boundary spot so quickly. Cowboys are willing to go through growing pains if need be.

Mullen was far worse than KJ.

It's about break even between Wright and KJ.

If there were any significant lack of responsibility issues, he would have been inactive when they've had an extra CB (Mullens last week and Alexander previously).

 

[Kingofholland]

I don't know what the solution is but Joseph got significant snaps in 4 games this season. Maybe he does get better, but he didn't play well enough for there not to be competition. I think whether if it's Joseph, Mullen, Wright, or Rhodes they all have their challenges.

 

[Acceptablename]

I’m sorry but Dallas made a huge mistake not letting Joseph get all the reps possible before the playoffs.

Now #2 corner is clearly our biggest weakness headed into the playoffs and as bad as it sounds Kelvin Joseph is still our best option.

For all the hate Anthony Brown received on this forum his loss may be what sends us home early in the playoffs.

When you hear Jerry Jones say it’s time for him to grow up and he goes out on the field and pushing that performance after all the off-season shocking revelations I think the coaches know something. Will have to Fix it in the off-season. Just another second round gamble roll snake eyes

 

[John813]

Mullen was far worse than KJ.

It's about break even between Wright and KJ.

If there were any significant lack of responsibility issues, he would have been inactive when they've had an extra CB (Mullens last week and Alexander previously).

Well, to your previous quote from Fassell, if KJ is well liked by Bones then he should be active for the gunner role.

I hope he can turn it around and win that #2 spot next year.

 

[G2]

Mullen was far worse than KJ.

It's about break even between Wright and KJ.

If there were any significant lack of responsibility issues, he would have been inactive when they've had an extra CB (Mullens last week and Alexander previously).

Insurance after Brown was injured. You can never have too many CBs. Wright to be edges Joseph out. Joseph is just not NFL material.

 

[Creeper]

I'm not concerned wit a further explanation of the reach it was drafting him. Results speak for themselves. After his rookie contract is up, see ya!
Assante Samuel? Not close really, he's made plays on the field and was pronounce rookie of the week a couple of times if I remember. Not the same caliber. The "project" theory is convenient, but unless he does a 180, I'm going by what we've seen.

I don't think Joseph see the end of his rookie deal honestly. Unless he flips a switch in the offseason and dedicates himself in a way that stuns his coaches, I think he won't make it to the final cut. I realize he is cheap at this point and he plays well on special teams but the Cowboys showed last offseason they want the ner'er-do-wells out of here.

 

[Croomraider]

I think the loss of both J. Lewis + A. Brown was just too much for this secondary to recover from.