More Ellis trade talk??

[MichaelWinicki]

Any other team besides this one and he doesn't lead the team with 8 sacks.

8 sacks is an accomplishment, since when?

6 solo and 4 half sacks is average I'm sorry.

KD, you seem to think you can just call 1-800-sack-master and get some skilled pass rusher off the streets.

It doesn't work like that.

You were probably one of the folks thinking Marcellus Wiley was going to come in here and get a dozen sacks.

 

[JonCJG]

You were probably one of the folks thinking Marcellus Wiley was going to come in here and get a dozen sacks.

Ok now you're a mind reader.

He's average I tell ya. Average doesn't make the Pro Bowl OR get guaranteed money.

You act like we would take a HUGE hit without him. BS

 

[dbair1967]

Greg's production is average. .

there are 64 players who start at DE in this league...average would mean all of them average 8-9 sacks a yr and play superb run defense

would you like to admit you are wrong or do I need to show all the sack totals for all 64 DE's

Ellis is NOT just an "average" player

David

 

[The Realist]

Our pass rush has always sucked with Ellis.

MW says we would struggle to get to 35 sacks w/o Ellis.

When's the last time we cracked the 35 barrier?

 

[JonCJG]

Yes please show me starting all 64 DE's numbers that played the same amount of snaps, WITH good supporting casts or without, WITH GOOD DBs or without and take away coverage sacks, or don't.... also teams playing with leads take them out of it becasue they get more chances to pin their ears back and rush blah blah blah

Please whatever. Too many variables.

I have never, and I MEAN NEVER seen Greg play and said to myself, wow what a good/great player he is. He's not!!

 

[Jarv]

Sometimes I'm shocked by the way Parcells handles players.

Maybe it's just me but I didn't see enough out of Canty at the beginning of last season to warrant hm being named starter and starting this chain reaction.

Granted Ellis isn't large enough to play as a 3-4 DE full-time, but I still think he was a superior player to Canty both vs the run and the pass.

I think I would have left Ellis as the starter and just rotated the two more often on running downs. On passing downs Canty either had to play DT or hit the bench because he'll never be a good pass rusher.

MW, couldn't have said it better myself. I agree with this 100 % !

 

[Doomsday101]

Yes please show me starting all 64 DE's numbers that played the same amount of snaps, WITH good supporting casts or without, WITH GOOD DBs or without and take away coverage sacks, or don't.... also teams playing with leads take them out of it becasue they get more chances to pin their ears back and rush blah blah blah

Please whatever. Too many variables.

I have never, and I MEAN NEVER seen Greg play and said to myself, wow what a good/great player he is. He's not!!

Evidently Parcells thinks Ellis is pretty good or else Ellis would be gone, yet the organization and Parcells have come out and have stated the importance of Ellis. Seem all your judging is pass rush well there is a lot more to the position than just pass rushing. I would like to see more sacks out of Ellis but then I would like to see some others putting up sacks and the fact is no one is giving Ellis much help when it comes to getting after the QB

 

[Hostile]

I'm convinced, Sean Payton is our new Dexter Coakley. Only instead of being the carrot of every trade where we get a landfall return, he's the guy who is shoveling high drafts picks our way to get our players. Every bogus trade scenario will begin with speculation that Sean Payton wants that player.

Now we just need to get Coakley back so he can go to Nawlins in a dozen imaginary trades.

 

[Typhus]

I think it was alot easier to say that Glover didnt fit the system than it is to say that Ellis doesnt.

Everyone knew that Glover was too small to be poductive in the 3-4, and BP still wanted to see how he would perform, and the result was his departure. No harm done in taking a look.

The same can be said concerning Ellis this season. The difference here is that nobody can say with any ounce of reason that Ellis doesnt fit.... how do you know that?

You cant say that he is too small to play SOLB, he definetly has the size.

The question will be if he can cover the TE or RB out of the backfield, but that same question will need to be answered from Carp as well.

Nobody at this point can honestly say that Ellis isnt a good fit,,, thats unfounded speculation at this point.

Traing camp is where this question will be answered, and Im willing to bet that Ellis will even surprise himself on how well he can be effective standing up outside.

He will have more flexability with his assignments and allignments in this system, and with his size, he might just surprise a few on how well he just might beable to blanket a few TE's on pass plays.

You just dont get rid of players that can get to the QB in this league, and as mentioned earler, No, Ellis is not cut from the same cloth as Haley, not many are, but he is a presence at times in the backfield, and thats more than we can say for alot of players drafted or FA brought in for over a decade to accomplish some means of a pass rush.

 

[JonCJG]

If they thought so highly of him they would give him his guaranteed money.

If they do later I will admit I am wrong.

I do agree that having Greg on this team another year would benefit us depth wise and would give Hatcher a year to adjust/develop.

But you don't treat "good players" the way the Cowboys have been treating GE.

It's not age either, it's production and the fact that he is AVERAGE and also the plain truth that he is a poor fit in the 3-4.

Proof IN MY EYES Glenn despite being older and definitely being more beat up having only played what? 2 complete seasons, get's his guaranteed money in the form of a SB and extension after only asking for it and claiming he would not sit out of Mini Camps.

But here we can all agree...... Glenn isn't average.

 

[Typhus]

Yes please show me starting all 64 DE's numbers that played the same amount of snaps, WITH good supporting casts or without, WITH GOOD DBs or without and take away coverage sacks, or don't.... also teams playing with leads take them out of it becasue they get more chances to pin their ears back and rush blah blah blah

Please whatever. Too many variables.

I have never, and I MEAN NEVER seen Greg play and said to myself, wow what a good/great player he is. He's not!!

Im assuming that you have forgotten the Pittman/Carver era?

 

[InmanRoshi]

. I would like to see more sacks out of Ellis but then I would like to see some others putting up sacks and the fact is no one is giving Ellis much help when it comes to getting after the QB

Ah yes, the ole "Greg Ellis doesn't get any help" bit.

Ugh, he's had a Pro Bowl defensive tackle next to him the past 3 years ... and last year it was Ware commanding double teams in the second half of the season, not Ellis. And did Ellis suddenly tear it up in the sacks department with all this help? No. He played in every single nickel snap and didn't record a sack the final 5 games. Pathetic. Just like he only recorded 1 sack in the final 5 games the year before that, in his beloved 4-3 as someone who played 90% of the snaps. The excuses wore thin a long time ago.

Parcells keeps Ellis on the team because his salary isn't a liability. If his whining and selfishness negates that, then he doesn't have a place on the team. Put Canty in Ellis' place in all the nickel snaps, and he'll probably rack up 5-6 sacks. I know its a huge avalanche dropping from eight sacks to six, but that can be made up for using more robust blitzing packages from players more familiar in the system and actually want to play and win for this football team. Greg Ellis doesn't want to play for the Dallas Cowboys. He's made it abundantly clear. Some malcontents are talented enough to keep them on the team against their will. Greg Ellis isn't one of those players.

 

[Doomsday101]

If they thought so highly of him they would give him his guaranteed money.

If they do later I will admit I am wrong.

I do agree that having Greg on this team another year would benefit us depth wise and would give Hatcher a year to adjust/develop.

But you don't treat "good players" the way the Cowboys have been treating GE.

It's not age either, it's production and the fact that he is AVERAGE and also the plain truth that he is a poor fit in the 3-4.

Proof IN MY EYES Glenn despite being older and definitely being more beat up having only played what 2 complete seasons, get's his guaranteed money in the form of a SB and extension after only asking and claiming he would not sit out of Mini Camps.

But here we can all agree...... Glenn isn't average.

I don't think Dallas is treating Ellis bad, they are making changes in the defense and Ellis is mentally having a hard time adjusting to this change, if Bill did not think Ellis could do the job he would have cut him loose and that is not the case. Dallas could have very well cut him loose instead he received a 500,000 dollar bonus. I would agree he is not the best fit for the 3-4 but on the other hand when Ellis came out of the lineup Dallas defense was not looking that great, we started struggling to stop the run and the pass rush was still not where it needed to be. Ellis by no means is a bad player, I'm not claiming he is an elite DE but he has been a solid player over his career in Dallas.

 

[JonCJG]

Im assuming that you have forgotten the Pittman/Carver era?

See you eat **** for dinner a few years and you get used to that taste.

Then you get Chicken Breast and you think you have died and gone to heaven.

But there is a T Bone out there with the Cowboys name on it my friend.

Those T Bones are not named Greg or Ellis.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

I can't see anyone giving up a day one pick for Ellis.

I can't see anyone giving up a day one pick for any aged player. But even if we could get a later pick for Ellis, why trade him away now for one (it's not like the draft is tomorrow)? Why not let Ellis play out the year and then trade him after this season? He'll still be under contract then, and he should have a good year this season because he has talent, wants to be traded and has to play well to showcase his worth to other teams. It's to Dallas' benefit to keep him this season and then trade him.

**

 

[JonCJG]

I don't think Dallas is treating Ellis bad, they are making changes in the defense and Ellis is mentally having a hard time adjusting to this change, if Bill did not think Ellis could do the job he would have cut him loose and that is not the case. Dallas could have very well cut him loose instead he received a 500,000 dollar bonus. I would agree he is not the best fit for the 3-4 but on the other hand when Ellis came out of the lineup Dallas defense was not looking that great, we started struggling to stop the run and the pass rush was still not where it needed to be. Ellis by no means is a bad player, I'm not claiming he is an elite DE but he has been a solid player over his career in Dallas.

IMO Dallas kept him for depth.

 

[Doomsday101]

Ah yes, the ole "Greg Ellis doesn't get any help" bit.

Ugh, he's had a Pro Bowl defensive tackle next to him the past 3 years ... and last year it was Ware commanding double teams in the second half of the season, and did Ellis suddenly tear it up in the sacks department with all this "help"? No. He played in every single nickel snap and didn't record a sack the final 5 games. Just like he only recorded 1 sack in the final 5 games the year before that. Exactly how much "help" does Greg Ellis need to not disappear down the stretch? A Pro Bowler at every single position on the DL? Maybe then would he crack double digits?

Parcells keeps Ellis on the team because his salary isn't a liability. If his whining and selfishness negates that, then he doesn't have a place on the team.

Put Canty in Ellis' place in all the nickel snaps, and he'll probably rack up 5-6 sacks. I know its a huge avalanche dropping from eight sacks to six, but that can be made up for using more robust blitzing packages from players more familiar in the system and actually want to play and win for this football team. Greg Ellis doesn't want to play for the Dallas Cowboys. He's made it abundantly clear.

I'm only stating a fact, tell me who else is getting any sacks? As I stated I don't think Ellis is an elite DE but he has been a steady player for Dallas. As for Canty I hope he can become a great sack man for Dallas but that has yet to be proven. As for Ellis being here or not that is something Ellis and the team will determine but I'm confident that if Ellis is here he will go out and do his job.

 

[JonCJG]

You know by the end of this year somebody will be eating crow.

Either way it will be good for our Boys!!

*Edit*

Key Word Doomsday101 Steady

 

[InmanRoshi]

You guys worry and fret so much about who's "proven" that you willingly accept proven mediocrity.

 

[Doomsday101]

IMO Dallas kept him for depth.

Or insurance, face it the young players we have hope for but bottom line they have yet to show they are any better than Ellis. Bill wants Ellis here and that is good enough for me.