More from Ex Cowboys Scout

[Idgit]

This thread got depressing all of a sudden.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Good grief, that room example was not his only basis of evaluation. It was just a way of illustrating his belief that if two guards are very close in ability, he'd prefer the more physical, "meaner" guy.

Let's not act like that's some lunatic fringe opinion, either. Nate Newton said the exact same thing: Cooper is really good, but he'd prefer the nastier, more physical player -- especially for this team.

 

[Angus]

I'm happy with either one, but I've heard that Cooper is much smarter than Warmack. Whether that's true or not I don't know but it could make a difference.

 

[Eddie]

That's nice.

Stop dreaming about a two-some with Warmack and Cooper.

We're not taking either of them.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

This might be the smartest thing Stretch has stated.

And not because I like Warmack better but because Cowboys history is littered with Randy White, Jay Ratliff, Larry Allen, Big E. Guys who want (and do) to hurt people and enjoy being paid to do just that.

It isn't scientific but that to me is scouting real talk. 100%.

Take the guy who'd win in a fight because basically every game is 11 guys going man for man with 11 other guys.

Athleticism is huge but you can't be a football player without serious toughness and a desire to dominate.

Good grief, that room example was not his only basis of evaluation. It was just a way of illustrating his belief that if two guards are very close in ability, he'd prefer the more physical, "meaner" guy.

Let's not act like that's some lunatic fringe opinion, either. Nate Newton said the exact same thing: Cooper is really good, but he'd prefer the nastier, more physical player -- especially for this team.

Today Stretch said the same thing about Vaccaro - getting a guy with some nastiness on this team. He said we could use some instead of 53 guys having an FCA meeting.

 

[conner01]

i think cooper is a better pass blocker, warmack is a better run blocker. both play with a bit of a nasty streak to me. i would be very excited with either. but if they were both there i would take cooper because he is more athletic, already is a good pass blocker and still very good at run blocker which he will get better at. power alone won't go near as far in the nfl as it does in college. as long as we get one of them i would be too sad about which one

 

[speedkilz88]

I stay relatively quiet during times like this, because I don't watch much college ball and am not a draft junkie. I like the NFL, college does little for me.

That said, I'm not impressed with that evaluation. Attitude absolutely matters, but this seems to indicate that Cooper has the wrong attitude. That's silly; by all accounts he seems to have an EXCELLENT attitude, motor, etc.

Larry Allen was one of the strongest men in the NFL, but in his hey day he was also incredibly agile for a man of his size. What concerns me from everything with Warmack is he will have to deal with VERY FAST defensive tackle. You have to kick out to be a good guard in this league. He may be a great man blocker in the run game, but if he's left defending the 3 gap while the tackle next to him is on an island against a 5 or 7 gap DE, how is he going to perform?

I'm not saying it would be poorly, or that Warmack isn't fantastic. I hear he is. But the scout's reasoning for taking him is just terrible.

He's just saying he's meaner and tougher than Cooper. And Warmack isn't as mobile as Cooper but he still can move well enough to get out to the second level and pull. Warmack isn't a phone booth blocker like you are trying to describe, that is more like Warford who is even less mobile than Warmack but still isn't exactly a slug.

 

[Crown Royal]

He's just saying he's meaner and tougher than Cooper. And Warmack isn't as mobile as Cooper but he still can move well enough to get out to the second level and pull. Warmack isn't a phone booth blocker like you are trying to describe, that is more like Warford who is even less mobile than Warmack but still isn't exactly a slug.

Like I said, I can't speak to either of them because I don't watch college. I'm just saying that the exact quote given here is not much of a differentiator for me.

Frankly I'm happy with anyone who can run block without ending up on the ground. Berny cook and Livings spent too much time of the turf to be effective.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

All I know is that Livings and Berny would be on the receiving end of a whoopin from either one, so I am hoping that one of them falls to us at 18.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

All I know is that Livings and Berny would be on the receiving end of a whoopin from either one, so I am hoping that one of them falls to us at 18.

:laugh2: nice.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Good grief, that room example was not his only basis of evaluation. It was just a way of illustrating his belief that if two guards are very close in ability, he'd prefer the more physical, "meaner" guy.

Let's not act like that's some lunatic fringe opinion, either. Nate Newton said the exact same thing: Cooper is really good, but he'd prefer the nastier, more physical player -- especially for this team.

The problem I have is that I doubt that he exasperated all facets of both players.

I want to know things like 'if he comes to Dallas, can he handle the fame and success of being a Dallas Cowboy?'

'How quick does he learn?'

'Can he handle injuries?'

'How does he fight back when he's struggling?'

It sounded to me that he just looked at some film and used his bias of what player he feels is nastier and would win in a fight.

But, the ultimate problem is that we have been terrible with drafting O-Linemen over the years. So scouts like him have little credibility with me. Like I said...if he's inclined to like Warmack, then I'm inclined to like Cooper.






YR

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Good grief, that room example was not his only basis of evaluation. It was just a way of illustrating his belief that if two guards are very close in ability, he'd prefer the more physical, "meaner" guy.

Let's not act like that's some lunatic fringe opinion, either. Nate Newton said the exact same thing: Cooper is really good, but he'd prefer the nastier, more physical player -- especially for this team.

Except that they are not very close athletically.

 

[Eddie]

Except that they are not very close athletically.

... and neither will be drafted by the Cowboys, so I don't understand the arguments. :bang2:

 

[StanleySpadowski]

Even if you believe that Warmack is the best player in this draft, it makes no sense for Dallas to draft him. Even if his backers want to compare his road grading ability to Larry Allen, even they can't claim he has a young Allen's feet and mobility. Currently, Dallas doesn't have the personnel to run a road grading man on scheme and that's what Warmack is going to need under the best case scenario.

Dallas' OL issues haven't been lack of talent, they've been lack of compatibility. Pairing a road grading guard like Davis with a nimble guard like Kosier proved that you just can't mismatch and run a coherent, consistent scheme. Either of those two guards had the talent to start for most teams but doesn't mean they both should have started for the same team.

Look at Washington's OL this past season. They had one player with the talent to start for most teams but they had five players who fit what they wanted to do so they had success.

If you want Warmack, be prepared to suffer for years as Dallas tries to find running mates on the OL for him.

I doubt Dallas goes OL in the first but if they do, Warmack isn't the target at whom they should be looking.

 

[Crown Royal]

^^^^ Well said


Also, yakuza nailed it. For as good as we have been finding rbs, linebackers and wrs, we have been crappy at drafting OL talent for way too long. Two of our five starting OL last year were drafted by this team, and one of those two is on the way out!!!!

 

[Joe Realist]

All of this means we will...trade out if round 1 and draft a safety in round 2

 

[Beast_from_East]

Womack is a road grading run blocking machine.


Cooper is more athletic, more mobile, and excels at pass protection.



I think Cooper fits our scheme better than Womack does, but maybe that's just me. Either guy would be light years better than the trash we currently have at Guard.