More hype Downs or Barham

Kwyn said:
Edge = sacks
CB = interceptions
LB = tackles
S = ?

That’s simplifying it but safeties are more all around contributors and while tackles and interceptions are reasonable measurements, it’s not as obvious as it is with other positions.

Downs for instance could very effective, playing all three downs, running the sets and calls for all five DBs, but if he doesn’t also have a bunch of interceptions, some fans will be critical.
Click to expand...
Got it! I didn't quite understand where you
were going with your OP.
Thanks for the feedback.
 
Kwyn said:
Agreed

Like I said, it’s hard for many fans to evaluate. That type of thing because it requires you to know what you’re seeing and it doesn’t show on the stat sheets
Click to expand...
Like O-linemen, in a way. If they're not outright mauling people or giving up pressures, to many fans they're just kinda... there.
 
MarcusRock said:
Speaking theory as truth is hype, yes.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. So, let's look at the facts:

-Pure football player
-Impressive lateral agility
-Impressive instincts
-Powerful hitter/strong secure tackler
-Dialed in and focused
-Closes on receivers quickly
-Limits throws in front of him
-Natural as a FS

The bust potential is pretty much zero. Very high floor combined w/ high ceiling.

Those are facts, which clearly point toward a huge upgrade at FS. Basically, players who come in w/ his instincts are rare. The fact is that the only thing that could keep him from being a good FS is injury, and that's true w/ all players.
 
Kwyn said:
Edge = sacks
CB = interceptions
LB = tackles
S = ?

That’s simplifying it but safeties are more all around contributors and while tackles and interceptions are reasonable measurements, it’s not as obvious as it is with other positions.

Downs for instance could very effective, playing all three downs, running the sets and calls for all five DBs, but if he doesn’t also have a bunch of interceptions, some fans will be critical.
Click to expand...
Good stuff.

Basically, it doesn't matter who you have at CB if your S's suck.
 
Caleb Downs is the best player in the entire league and it’s not particularly close. If you argue with me you’re a hater.
 
fivetwos said:
Caleb Downs is the best player in the entire league and it’s not particularly close. If you argue with me you’re a hater.
Click to expand...
And furthermore there will be no debate that CP is the best DC in the league.

I think we can all come together with these two irrefutable truths.

"Something just feels different this season"
 
All of them, just because thats what happens in Dallas
 
Coogiguy03 said:
These two rookies are being talked about seemingly everyday. Can they both live up to the expectations given to them by the fans and organization?? Every time I look somewhere it was Downs, now it's more so Barham, I hope they're ready to go. Who you got!!
Click to expand...
It's never one or the other. They are teammates and so I look at it as they are pieces of a team.
 
kskboys said:
Absolutely. So, let's look at the facts:

-Pure football player
-Impressive lateral agility
-Impressive instincts
-Powerful hitter/strong secure tackler
-Dialed in and focused
-Closes on receivers quickly
-Limits throws in front of him
-Natural as a FS

The bust potential is pretty much zero. Very high floor combined w/ high ceiling.

Those are facts, which clearly point toward a huge upgrade at FS. Basically, players who come in w/ his instincts are rare. The fact is that the only thing that could keep him from being a good FS is injury, and that's true w/ all players.
Click to expand...
Those were facts at the college level. We hope they translate to the pros, we can predict they'll translate to the pros, but until they actually do translate to the pros, it's hype. Then following all that, we can start the overrated/underrated discussion.
 
I don’t care about hype. I just hope at the end of the season there’s an argument about which was best rookie this season lol
 
I am only interested in the so called "hype" when it comes from the coaching staff at this point. Podcasters and sport media is just speculating at best for off season banter.

My expectations is a productive rookie season that can continue to build into a championship caliber team before their rookie contract ends. If these rookies can show any promise this year rather than the crap we fielded last year is a win in my book.
 
Coogiguy03 said:
These two rookies are being talked about seemingly every day. Can they both live up to the expectations given to them by the fans and organization?? Every time I look somewhere it was Downs, now it's more so Barham, I hope they're ready to go. Who you got!!
Click to expand...
I think they're both highly capable at what they'll be assigned to do within their separate areas of expertise. At least, I'll be hoping for that to be possible and to actually occur, as well. Downs will be warmly welcomed by Christian Parker as Barham will with his partners at the LB spots.

Hopefully, Downs will make Parker's job that much easier than it might have been without him, just to simplify do what he'd be obliged to do otherwise. Downs should eventually be able to make the defensive calls far more successful than CP would be able to control without him. He'll have Downs right there to make others get aligned properly, like he did at Ohio State previously.

Barham should be valuable by simply being himself as someone capable of serving the LB spot he'll be assigned to, whether it's in the middle or elsewhere, possibly on the outside, or as a DE. Both of them are adept at what they do and will likely make CP's job far easier than it might have been minus their presence. Barham is especially physical -- something that CP is likely going to admire.
 
Last edited:
Listen I am a fan of Barham and I think he will be a great player in time.

But we have to be careful of all the YouTube highlight videos. Just keep in mind these are cherry picked from hundreds upon hundreds of snaps. They don't show us the mistakes and bad plays these guys made. There are concerns with Barham's speed in pass coverage and his overall instincts; which is part of the reason Michigan moved him to edge last year. And at edge, he simply won with speed. When linemen got their hands on him, he had no answers or counter moves.

Again, I am not trying to throw cold water on the Barham hype, just saying he is probably not going to be a walk-in all pro starter. It might take time.
 
speedkilz88 said:
He was a 3rd round pick.

3-92 Jaishawn Barham

The LBs taken before him:

1-5 Arvell Reese
1-7 Sonny Styles
2-43 Jacob Rodriguez
2-46 Josiah Trotter
2-51 Jake Golday
2-53 CJ Allen
2-60 Anthony Hill

The next LB after him was his teammate

4-118 Jimmy Rolder
Click to expand...
Well without our second round pick who went to Quinn Williams that's what we had go after because a lot of us on our board if we would have been in the 2nd round picking Allen or Hill may have been there..

But I think people don't understand it's not a consolation prize if you go back and really watch a lot of the film on this kid physical aggressive big long wingspan has been a middle linebacker more than an outside linebacker or edge but can play both So if we're going to compare them in the future to anyone else that possibly we could have had it's Allen or Hill so we can watch their careers and see what happens but I'm OK with getting Quinn Williams as technically as our 2nd round pick this year...lol

When you add in George Pickens as other 3rd round pick This draft looks great on paper..
 
Coogiguy03 said:
These two rookies are being talked about seemingly everyday. Can they both live up to the expectations given to them by the fans and organization?? Every time I look somewhere it was Downs, now it's more so Barham, I hope they're ready to go. Who you got!!
Click to expand...
Training delivered to your door I don't really consider hype for downs I have no doubt that he'll be a very good player will he be great or elite I don't know about that but he comes from a football family and was family and his personal lives that kept them on the straight and narrow he's well grounded smart, II just don't think he's going to be a bust of any kind at all I mean of course everyone's gonna want him to be elite or his expectations to be great but if he just plays well, he's steady...its a win...

And I do believe that's his floor as they say I think at worst we're just gonna get a very good football player At best he could be one of the top safeties in the league..

I'm also riding the high of Barham being the dark horse steel of the draft Just look at his physical nature He's a downhill player he loves to tackle long wingspan he's aggressive he's big he's perfect for middle linebacker..

It's a great position of need because even though winters is Going to be used a lot in that spot He's not as big and physical as this kid who can also rush to pass her he reminds me of Brady James our old linebacker from way back when who had the same physical nature And when you watch him he didn't need to play edge or outside linebacker he still ran quarterbacks down and I was watching some of the highlights from his career he was tackling guys like Mcnabb and Steve Young and what not like from behind he was tracking them down he also very good tackler of the running back just prototypical big middle linebacker we haven't had that in a while not one that wasn't an injury concern like Lve..

I think this guy could be what we hoped Lve was because he doesn't have the neck injuries he's got a longer wingspan.. So yes there is hype for this kid but he was a 3rd rounder and you could find really good players in the 3rd round and I hope this is one of them...

There isn't a lot of talk about Lawrence because he's kind of in the middle He's got all the athletic upside all the moves but he runs around with a bunch of braces on and even though he finished strong as far as health wise in college he said relatively unknown commodity A tweener We didn't have a second round pick That's probably what he would have been..

I'm very interested to see what he can do but I don't think he needs to be that right away guy I think easy Eze is gonna take a step I think we talked about James Houston in another thread and even Sam Williams and and Gary I mean we got guys.

So I'm hoping in the end Lawrence becomes well like Tank the other Lawrence although I think he's got more moves I think that I hope that that's what he can turn into at the very minimum...
 
Praxit said:
...yet, no one is talking about Winters. This guy gonna destroy people.
Click to expand...
That's because he's more of a weak side linebacker that can play middle linebacker He's a very good linebacker we needed that in our room, we get a veteran guy that's healthy played 17 games last year We know what he's doing but everyone kind of knows who he is there is no upside with him he is what he is going to be a very steady player very good.

But some of these other guys like Lawrence and Barham,

I mean Barham is a physical specimen prototypical middle linebacker something we hoped LVE would be sans neck issues, he reminds me of Brady James and that's who we're going to want to eventually take over the middle linebacker spot.

But yes Winters we don't need to talk about him we already know day one, he will be the starter alongside Overshown... But I know that this staff wants to see Barham rotate in a lot a little at a time as a year builds I think he'll get his shot and I bet they throw him in special teams with all that physical style in his wingspan he can cause some problems on special teams...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Staff online

Members online

... and 70 more.
Total: 30,030 (members: 170, guests: 29,860)
Robots: 1,004

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
474,163
Messages
14,517,088
Members
24,208
Latest member
CowboysQC
Back
Top