Morris Claiborne

AmericanCowboy said:
Guy is trash. He gave up like a 60 yard pass on the second drive and had an interception thrown right to him that I would've caught. He also gave up a touchdown I am not impressed. Until he shuts down the receiver he is covering on a consistent basis then maybe he can be serviceable.
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lol... so if he shuts down his receiver consistently, he graduates to " serviceable"?

lulz.
 
big dog cowboy said:
I've seen a missed training camp, two different defensive schemes and injuries in his 18 months since being drafted. Those are not excuses just the facts. It might be a little early to run the 'he can't compete at this level' flag up the pole just yet.
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I agree but this fan base rather be "right" that a player is garbage instead of being just a little patient. Last I checked 32 teams had him as a first rounder and a top 10 pick along with draft gurus. But some of these so called couch patatos think they know more. Comical really. He's gonna be a good one just like Dez just watch
 
Vintage said:
lol... so if he shuts down his receiver consistently, he graduates to " serviceable"?

lulz.
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How many corners in this passing league actually **** down WR on a weekly basis? That poster is being ridiculous and not realistic and going for shock value with his lame statements. I will never understand some of these fans. They see one guy play and dream and wish we had him and then bags on our current players to make their point. What a shame. I would bet he would trip over himself if he saw Mo at the store and would never say he sucks and can't compete. I believe Dez when he says he's a good one.
 
The first half of their respective rookie years Claiborne was much better than peterson. But by the end of peterson's rookie year, the cardinals were playing him in man coverage with no safety help with the rest of the coverage in a zone (basically revis on the jets was the only corner who would consistently play that type of coverage). By his second year peterson was elite. Now, peterson is probably the best corner in the nfl.

Claiborne is actually playing worse now than in his rookie year. He is playing terribly. Something needs to click...it still can, but it needs to sooner rather than later. And even then he's never going to be peterson. Peterson is one of the most gifted athletes ever at his position and he is meeting all of that athletic potential.
 
hra8700 said:
The first half of their respective rookie years Claiborne was much better than peterson. But by the end of peterson's rookie year, the cardinals were playing him in man coverage with no safety help with the rest of the coverage in a zone (basically revis on the jets was the only corner who would consistently play that type of coverage). By his second year peterson was elite. Now, peterson is probably the best corner in the nfl.

Claiborne is actually playing worse now than in his rookie year. He is playing terribly. Something needs to click...it still can, but it needs to sooner rather than later. And even then he's never going to be peterson. Peterson is one of the most gifted athletes ever at his position and he is meeting all of that athletic potential.
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Peterson wasn't elite his second season. All but one of his INTs was the result of luck (tipped passes falling in his lap, receivers falling down, last gasp hail mary's into triple coverage -- I've watched them all). Outside of those INTs, his coverage stats were mediocre to bad. He was thrown at A LOT. And he gave up a lot of passes and a lot of yards. Don't judge a corner by one stat line.
 
I
theogt said:
Peterson wasn't elite his second season. All but one of his INTs was the result of luck (tipped passes falling in his lap, receivers falling down, last gasp hail mary's into triple coverage -- I've watched them all). Outside of those INTs, his coverage stats were mediocre to bad. He was thrown at A LOT. And he gave up a lot of passes and a lot of yards. Don't judge a corner by one stat line.
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I judge him by watching his game film (or reading articles disecting his game film), the most important part of which is seeing how he is used schematically. He is put on an island consistently. Halfway through his rookie year they were playing cover zero behind him, which is remarkable for a rookie. "Coverage stats" mean nothing if you dont note what responsibilities the players have. Of course he gets rown to a lot...quarterbacks ALWAYS through to their best receiver when theyre one on one. Revis got thrown to a lot too. I would argue by the end of peterson's rookie year he was already a top 5 corner in the league.
 
At this point, give how terribly he's been playing, the question about Claiborne isnt if he will be as good as Peterson, it is if he is going to be a good nfl player at all. we don't know that. The question for Peterson is if he will be as good as Deion. He is already the best corner in the nfl his third year. He hasn't even peaked...
 
Everyone on the defense besides lee and church, are playing like trash. I think alot has to do with the scheme change. And lack of line pressure because of injury.
 
TheRomoSexual said:
Again, wrong. He was a competent CB last season as a rook and has regressed a bit in a new scheme. Your implications that he can't compete are groundless and absurd.
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Regressed a bit? LOL is that what you call this joke of a season he's putting together?
 
hra8700 said:
I


I judge him by watching his game film (or reading articles disecting his game film), the most important part of which is seeing how he is used schematically. He is put on an island consistently. Halfway through his rookie year they were playing cover zero behind him, which is remarkable for a rookie. "Coverage stats" mean nothing if you dont note what responsibilities the players have. Of course he gets rown to a lot...quarterbacks ALWAYS through to their best receiver when theyre one on one. Revis got thrown to a lot too. I would argue by the end of peterson's rookie year he was already a top 5 corner in the league.
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Actually, no, Revis didn't get thrown at a lot -- the exact opposite is true. Same with Nnamdi in his prime. Revis and Nnamdi were elite corners precisely because they weren't thrown at. A corner should be judged by one thing -- is he more efficient at not having his receiver catch a ball. And Peterson is far from elite if we're judging by that standard.
 
Regressed a bit? LOL is that what you call this joke of a season he's putting together?[/quote]

Mo is fine. I think we as cowboy fans get so critical of guys. We look as stats to much as well. We have switched to this 4-3 defense which takes some time to figure out. also playing in a zone coverage alot you cant be a shut down corner. its all about covering areas. there very dependant on the safety help.
 
theogt said:
Actually, no, Revis didn't get thrown at a lot -- the exact opposite is true. Same with Nnamdi in his prime. Revis and Nnamdi were elite corners precisely because they weren't thrown at. A corner should be judged by one thing -- is he more efficient at not having his receiver catch a ball. And Peterson is far from elite if we're judging by that standard.
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Revis was thrown at 86 times in 2011 (23rd most in the league) and 111 times in 2009 (3rd most in the league). He was the best corner in the league, easily, both years. Peterson was thron at 95 times last year (18th most in league). Nnamdi was hardly ever thrown at because he played one side, never followed the opposing team's best receiver, his opposing corners sucked, and he had safety help.

If you think a corner should be evaluated solely by one stat without taking into account any of the thousands of details and subtleties involved then you're doing the same thing you accused me of doing in your first post, just with a different metric. Stats mean nothing without context.

A corner who always plays zone and cannot play man will have fewer passes thrown his way, naturally, then a corner who can play cover zero man. But if peterson can play even adequate coverage in that scheme then the entire rest of the field will be overloaded with defenders and shut down. Football is about formations, schemes, matchups. If your stat doesn't take that into account it's really not worth much...
 
At some point people need to let go of where he was selected and just evaluate him as a member of our team. Gnashing your teeth and pulling out your hair because he was a high 1st round selection does what exactly?
 
Toruk_Makto said:
At some point people need to let go of where he was selected and just evaluate him as a member of our team. Gnashing your teeth and pulling out your hair because he was a high 1st round selection does what exactly?
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It shows he was a waste.
 
Toruk_Makto said:
At some point people need to let go of where he was selected and just evaluate him as a member of our team. Gnashing your teeth and pulling out your hair because he was a high 1st round selection does what exactly?
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It indicates that people understand that his performance value (performance/opportunity cost) is poor and meaningful.
 
Asomugha was getting tore up in Philly so learning a new system and scheme changes DO matter.
It's funny how Peterson gets a pass for his first year because of his returns, overlooking that he was getting thrown to all the time as a corner.
I recall a lot of people calling Dez dumb and harping on him for not knowing his routes and wanting him to be traded... but now the tone has changed.
Claiborne will be fine, but he probably won't live up to these expectations of him being Revis 2.0 or Sanders 2.0... which guys will obviously bring up over and over because we gave up a second rounder to get him.
 
Doomsay said:
It indicates that people understand that his performance value (performance/opportunity cost) is poor and meaningful.
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Fine. And I don't necessarily disagree. But how many times are people going to say the exact same thing? And what does it change?
 
Toruk_Makto said:
At some point people need to let go of where he was selected and just evaluate him as a member of our team. Gnashing your teeth and pulling out your hair because he was a high 1st round selection does what exactly?
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It reminds me why they are stuck as an 8-8 team. It also reminds me if the piss poor GM that is in Dallas and that his replacement is his son that stinks as bad as his father.
 
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