Mosley: Hashmarks: Where to Next Tank? (suggests Dallas)

[superpunk]

Prreparing to take a dump on the field is NOT intensity, CL. Although it might be intense.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I guess in a game that we're losing in, they want to see people jumping up and down

but that is intensity, when you suck and just don't care

which also struck me as funny when we were losing, and all Parcells could do was show disgust, and people got mad at it, I guess fist-pumping would have changed the course of the game

 

[Doomsday101]

I guess in a game that we're losing in, they want to see people jumping up and down

but that is intensity, when you suck and just don't care

which also struck me as funny when we were losing, and all Parcells could do was show disgust, and people got mad at it, I guess fist-pumping would have changed the course of the game

Then you look at Landry and most of the time you could not tell if we were winning or losing based on his expression. :laugh2:

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Then you look at Landry and most of the time you could not tell if we were winning or losing based on his expression. :laugh2:

I hate that superficial, emotion crap, it does next to nothing in determining the course of a game

can't hate Romo for it, cuz I love the dude, I know

 

[Doomsday101]

I hate that superficial, emotion crap, it does next to nothing in determining the course of a game

can't hate Romo for it, cuz I love the dude, I know

I want to see guys playing with high intensity and I think that is important but it still comes down to execution and making plays. I know when I was playing I would get butterflies to the point of almost getting sick and could not wait to hit the field and the opponent but the emotion will only carry you so far in the end you got to make the plays and keep yourself under control

 

[AbeBeta]

But what are those things that a guy must do to display intensity to you and why do they have to play "dirty?"

On this Cowboys squad, I see alot of celebration after a good play. When Barber has punished a couple guys on his way to the end zone, he's got guys all over him. I see excitement after a big hit. I've seen a little extra barking to other players after a good play. What more should we expect from them. Some Ray Lewis-type stomping? Some big time demonstration after a sack?

Even though we haven't seen much of it the last two years, I've always thought Roy was the catalyst which made the defense get hyped. On offense, for this year, I would say Barber, Witten, TO.

I don't care about celebration -- I care about making huge nasty plays that get folks excited. I care about OL guys who take a shot at a guy who tries to stand over the QB after he's sacked him rather than just standing with his hands on his hips, I care about safeties who lay wood and actually frighten with their play rather than their reputation, I care about DEs who are giving it their all regardless of playing in a D that they think does fit their abilities.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I want to see guys playing with high intensity and I think that is important but it still comes down to execution and making plays. I know when I was playing I would get butterflies to the point of almost getting sick and could not wait to hit the field and the opponent but the emotion will only carry you so far in the end you got to make the plays and keep yourself under control

I could do w/ more playmaking, that's for sure

 

[Doomsday101]

I could do w/ more playmaking, that's for sure

I think both are important. I want the guy with the mike singletary eyes and the play making ability Or Irvin’s high intensity but it is not emotion or intensity alone it is going out and making plays and not letting your emotion get the better of you. I sure don't want guys who are so wired that they are out there drawing 15 yarders for doing stupid things because they let their emotion get out of control.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I don't really care about celebrations what players do after good plays, I judge them by what they do after bad plays. This team seems to lose confidence and fold. See the defense going from the 4th ranked scoring in the NFL to the worst defense after the New Orleands game. See giving up two TD's to Santana Moss in the final two minutes to lose a game. Or the Washington game this year when Roy let's an easy INT go right through his hands and bounce of his face mask, TO drops an easy long TD and we lose at the end of the game by having a game winning field goal blocked and returned down the field with a 15 yard face mask tacked on to give the other team a chance to win. See giving up a 12 point lead in the 4th quarter of the playoffs, after fumbling the ball on our our 5 yard line and fumbling a snap on a field goal. When it gets nut cutting time, this team finds ways to lose.

This was stated perfectly by Michael Lewis article about Parcells in the NYT this last Septemer.

At the back of Parcells’s personal binder there are a few loose, well-thumbed sheets that defy categorization: a copy of a speech by Douglas MacArthur; a passage from a book about coaches, which argues that a coach excels by purifying his particular vision rather than emulating a type. Among the papers is an anecdote Parcells brings up often in conversation, about a boxing match that took place nearly 30 years ago between the middleweights Vito Antuofermo and Cyclone Hart. Parcells loves boxing; his idea of a perfect day in the off-season is to spend it inside some ratty boxing gym in North Jersey. “It’s a laboratory,” he says. “You get a real feel for human behavior under the strongest duress — under the threat of physical harm.” In this laboratory he has identified a phenomenon he calls the game quitter. Game quitters, he says, seem “as if they are trying to win, but really they’ve given up. They’ve just chosen a way out that’s not apparent to the naked eye. They are more concerned with public opinion than the end result.”

Parcells didn’t see the Hart-Antuofermo fight in person but was told about it, years ago, by a friend and boxing trainer, Teddy Atlas. It stuck in his mind and now strikes him as relevant. Seated, at first, he begins to read aloud from the pages: how in this fight 29 years ago Hart was a well-known big puncher heavily favored against the unknown Vito Antuofermo, how Hart knocked Antuofermo all over the ring, how Antuofermo had no apparent physical gifts except “he bled well.” “But,” Parcells reads, “he had other attributes you couldn’t see.” Antuofermo absorbed the punishment dealt out by his natural superior, and he did it so well that Hart became discouraged. In the fifth round, Hart began to tire, not physically but mentally. Seizing on the moment, Antuofermo attacked and delivered a series of quick blows that knocked Hart down, ending the fight.

The Commanders video is still frozen on the screen behind Parcells. He is no longer sitting but is now on his feet. “This is the interesting part,” he says, then reads:

“When the fighters went back to their makeshift locker rooms, only a thin curtain was between them. Hart’s room was quiet, but on the other side he could hear Antuofermo’s cornermen talking about who would take the fighter to the hospital. Finally he heard Antuofermo say, ‘Every time he hit me with that left hook to the body, I was sure I was going to quit. After the second round, I thought if he hit me there again, I’d quit. I thought the same thing after the fourth round. Then he didn’t hit me no more.’

“At that moment, Hart began to weep. It was really soft at first. Then harder. He was crying because for the first time he understood that Antuofermo had felt the same way he had and worse. The only thing that separated the guy talking from the guy crying was what they had done. The coward and the hero feel the same emotions. They’re both human.”

When Parcells finishes, he says: “This is the story of our last game. We were Cyclone Hart.”

That, to me, is why you need a "street fight" on a team. Guys who's "street cred" mean something to them. Guys who look at losing as not an option, because they come form an environment of survival of the fittest. Guys who play the game as though their manhood is on the line. As though losing would do nothing short of ruin their entire reputation and disgrace them from their friends and families. I don't see enough of that on this team. Too much "Ah shucks, Gee Golly. Oh well, we tried hard" with this group. Or even worse, "Don't look at me. Its not my fault. (*cough* Roy *cough*)" Too many "game quitters" and Cyclone Harts on this team, especially on defense.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I don't care about celebration -- I care about making huge nasty plays that get folks excited.

And you're saying we don't have guys do that?

I care about OL guys who take a shot at a guy who tries to stand over the QB after he's sacked him rather than just standing with his hands on his hips,

like Colombo did when he destroyed DeAngelo Hall. Who was fortunate BTW in not getting a penalty.

I care about safeties who lay wood and actually frighten with their play rather than their reputation,

If that reputation (real or imagined) still has guys worried about going over the middle so that they drop balls, then I don't care.

I care about DEs who are giving it their all regardless of playing in a D that they think does fit their abilities.

Who says they're not giving their all? Whatever they gave, maybe it just wasn't effective.

It seems to me you're not necessarily talking about intensity, you're just talking about playing better. Much of what you described, I remember seeing throughout the year. In the offseason, if you don't have game tapes all that gets lost in the suckiness of how the season ended.

 

[Coakleys Dad]

I do not want him...at all, no matter how talented. We have had players in the past with trouble with the law, and thats a whole other animal.

 

[AbeBeta]

And you're saying we don't have guys do that?

like Colombo did when he destroyed DeAngelo Hall. Who was fortunate BTW in not getting a penalty.

I'm not seeing any guys who are hitting and getting the D excited -- it was rare last year.

Again, you have to play smart as I've pointed out. But you also have to make it clear that there is "no party on my watch"

If that reputation (real or imagined) still has guys worried about going over the middle so that they drop balls, then I don't care.

Yes, but dropping a ball doesn't have the same impact on the D (and the crowd) like a big hit that shakes the ball out and puts the WR on the sideline for several plays now does it?

Who says they're not giving their all? Whatever they gave, maybe it just wasn't effective.

It seems to me you're not necessarily talking about intensity, you're just talking about playing better. Much of what you described, I remember seeing throughout the year. In the offseason, if you don't have game tapes all that gets lost in the suckiness of how the season ended.

Playing better? That obviously is part of it -- actually playing like you give a damn -- that's huge too.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Game quitters, he says, seem “as if they are trying to win, but really they’ve given up. They’ve just chosen a way out that’s not apparent to the naked eye. They are more concerned with public opinion than the end result.”

Hmm... If one really wanted to, he could probably apply that exact description to a certain head coach.

I have a hard time calling our players quitters. Surely someone with Parcells' perceptive abilities wouldn't have kept those type guys around after four years of intense study and roster control.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Hmm... If one really wanted to, he could probably apply that exact description to a certain head coach.

Are you claiming that losing didn't really bother Parcells? If so, that would directly be polar opposite from what you hear with everyone who's ever worked with the man for the last 30 years, so it would be nice if you provided examples. I think its pretty obvious that losing accutely bothered him, and not in the "Gee Golly, we tried hard. Just didn't get the job done. Aw shucks" way that we see prevalent among many on our team. I would also have a hard time not believing that the trait exists on the team, given all the specific examples I listed of how the team has a propensity of folding when the going gets tough.

I agree that Parcells assembled the team, so he gets the blame if that trait is there. Still, its a hard attribute to evaluate until you've been in the trenches with a guy, and its hard to change a underlying trait among a team as opposed to a certain individual. Especially in an age of cap ramifications. But this is why I'm not drinking the Kool Aid believing that an X's and O's change is going to dramatically change things around here, unlike most on the board. This team lacks a certain intestinal fortitude that Championship teams have, and until that's resolved X's and O's are meaningless. At the end of the 4th quarter of close games and both teams are hurting and tired, it really comes down to a game of will. Not X's and O's and diagrams and Madden 07.

 

[joseephuss]

I guess in a game that we're losing in, they want to see people jumping up and down

but that is intensity, when you suck and just don't care

which also struck me as funny when we were losing, and all Parcells could do was show disgust, and people got mad at it, I guess fist-pumping would have changed the course of the game

Parcells bothered me a little in the 2005 game at Washington. Drew got off to a bad start and played poorly the whole game. The whole team played poorly and Parcells just seemed to sit there in disgust. That part did not bother me. What did was when McBriar shanked a punt during the game. Parcells stared him down and cussed under his breath like the whole game was McBriars fault. Some posters at that time seemed to follow that lead and called for McBriar to be cut. There was plenty in that game for Parcells to show some emotion about, but he chose to do it to a punter. Of course, we don't get to see his reaction after every play, so this is just based on what I was able to see.

 

[joseephuss]

Are you claiming that losing didn't really bother Parcells? If so, that would directly be polar opposite from what you hear with everyone who's ever worked with the man for the last 30 years, so it would be nice if you provided examples. I think its pretty obvious that losing accutely bothered him, and not in the "Gee Golly, we tried hard. Just didn't get the job done. Aw shucks" way that we see prevalent among many on our team. I would also have a hard time not believing that the trait exists on the team, given all the specific examples I listed of how the team has a propensity of folding when the going gets tough.

I agree that Parcells assembled the team, so he gets the blame if that trait is there. Still, its a hard attribute to evaluate until you've been in the trenches with a guy, and its hard to change a underlying trait among a team as opposed to a certain individual. Especially in an age of cap ramifications. But this is why I'm not drinking the Kool Aid believing that an X's and O's change is going to dramatically change things around here, unlike most on the board. This team lacks a certain intestinal fortitude that Championship teams have, and until that's resolved X's and O's are meaningless. At the end of the 4th quarter of close games and both teams are hurting and tired, it really comes down to a game of will. Not X's and O's and diagrams and Madden 07.

I agree. This team just did not have that certain intestinal fortitude. It was clear to me that Parcells was not going to bring it out, either. For some reason this team just was not going to get there with Parcells. They had their moments, but could not sustain it. Maybe it truly is a generation thing. They can follow Parcells for a while, but not the whole way. I don't know. Maybe they can get there now that the grip is released. That is not a criticism of Parcells. Really it is a criticism of the players.

I don't think it truly will be Phillips getting them there, either. It will come from within if at all. I hope it does.

Xs and Os? They can make some difference, but in the end of tight games it comes down to doing your job no matter the scheme. Beat the guy in front of you. That is internal.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

No, I'm really not that negative on Parcells. I hope everyone knows that my sig is 99% a joke.

I don't think losing didn't bother Parcells -- obviously, a lot of things bothered him, with losing being at the top of the list. I do think there was a bit of rolling over on his part at the end of 2004 when several players said he totally withdrew from the team and barely even spoke to them. Maybe that's old age, I don't know.

Anyway... I haven't seen too many incidents of "Gee golly, we didn't win but we tried hard" from these players. I still remember after that disgraceful loss to the Texans when Brad Sham reported that Derek Ross was dancing around and laughing in the locker room immediately afterward. I hated that, and I'm sure it's one reason Parcells didn't like Ross and eventually got rid of him. That's good, because no one needs players who don't care any more than that.

But I don't know that we have players like that now, especially since Parcells specifically looked to get players who were both mentally and physically tough. Maybe the Lions and Raiders have them, but I don't know that we have them now. You mentioned (maybe in another post) about giving up those two late passes to lose to the Skins two years ago. Well, that was Aaron Glenn, Parcells' personal favorite.

So I don't blame our late-season swoons on having a team of "game quitters". I probably call it more something else Aaron mentioned lately: Dead legs. Or predictable, unimaginative coaching. Or too many players playing hurt. But not on quitting.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I agree. This team just did not have that certain intestinal fortitude. It was clear to me that Parcells was not going to bring it out, either. For some reason this team just was not going to get there with Parcells. They had their moments, but could not sustain it. Maybe it truly is a generation thing. They can follow Parcells for a while, but not the whole way. I don't know. Maybe they can get there now that the grip is released. That is not a criticism of Parcells. Really it is a criticism of the players.

I don't think it truly will be Phillips getting them there, either. It will come from within if at all. I hope it does.

Xs and Os? They can make some difference, but in the end of tight games it comes down to doing your job no matter the scheme. Beat the guy in front of you. That is internal.

I agree. I admire Parcells as a walking encyclopedia of football and human behavior, but I agree that this particular team had plateaued under him and probably wasn't going to get any better. He certainly didn't seem to have any answers and appeared absolutely exasperated with the whole thing. I don't think Wade Phillips is going to be the answer for this problem either, although I certainly hold no grudge against him or his football background and I'm more than willing to give him a clean slate (and he beats Norv).

I think if there's any hope, it's that the team rallies around Romo and his "moxie" or that it was just a young team that will eventually mature. Still, I'm awfully scared that this defense is going to let us down at the worst time. Especially in a scheme that is prone to giving up big plays, because this defense has shown the propensity to get extremely rattled at best, and at worst jump ship in rough waters. And the perpetual defeatest attitude of our "team leader" on defense for the umpteenth consecutive offseason certainly doesn't soothe concerns any.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

He had 8 1/2 sacks over the past two seasons,

Wow! He did in two seasons what it took Greg Ellis to do in one! And you know how much we love Ellis in these parts!!!

And Dallas has the gun culture that Tank would love!!!

Bring him in!!!!!!!!!

:laugh1: