My FA thoughts

[tyke1doe]

Terrance Newman: Say it aint so. 39 and most likely not going to get more than 3-4mil a yr. Maybe even less because of the age. But still has something left as his play shows.

I remember many Cowboys fans on this forum were saying that because he was "older" than the average rookie, he wouldn't have many productive years.
Now, he's almost an ageless wonder.

 

[BigDave95]

DeMarcus Ware and Julius Peppers?? Sure, why not. We should also check on the availability of Bruce Smith and Reggie White. I've heard of them too.

 

[jterrell]

This silly logic some of you have where you can't sign anyone over 30 cracks me up.

As long as you don't go out and sign 10 free agents that are over 30, a smart franchise would bring in an older, productive player to supplement a young team. There are so many advantage to it. For one, an older player can be a good mentor for young kids and we'll have a bunch of young DEs (see Freeney in Altanta). Older guys also often come with smaller price tags and short contracts that don't kill you down the road.

The fear some of you have over adding strategic older veterans is completely shortsighted.

Peppers is an ideal fit for the right price. He's still productive and mostly healthy (compared to Ware who hasn't played a full season the last two years). Peppers hasn't missed a game in his last 7 seasons. At this point, he's going to be on a one or two year deal, max.

Tell me the last over 30 veteran that really helped us?

Freeney is a cool story but there were over 60 FA's last year that were over 30. You pointed to 1.

 

[Sydla]

Tell me the last over 30 veteran that really helped us?

Freeney is a cool story but there were over 60 FA's last year that were over 30. You pointed to 1.

When was the last time we signed a FA over 30?

The fact is there are successful guys over 30 who have impacts on a team. To completely shut off a potential FA because he's "too old" is shortsighted. Here are a few names that we were linked to last year in FA:

- Robert Ayers was 31 for the Bucs this past season. Had 6.5 sacks.
- Weddle was very effective for Baltimore, with 4 interceptions and 13 passes defended.

Then there were guys like Reggie Nelson who had 5 interceptions who signed with Oakland.

So the notion that there aren't older veterans out there who could help us in FA is largely a myth.

 

[BAT]

Ifo is really iffy.

He tore his left ACL in his Sr year at Oregon, then tore the right last summer.

Was a 7th round pick that could have gone 30-40 if not for the injury, but he's proved nothing.

This is another case whose medical report is critical to his potential ROI.
He could be ready to go, or he could be done.

Would take chance for vet min plus incentives. Low risk/high reward. And would rather have Ware over Peppers. Peppers is likely going to be pricier and Stephen is a skinflint. Especially for players over 30.

 

[Sydla]

Would take chance for vet min plus incentives. Low risk/high reward. And would rather have Ware over Peppers. Peppers is likely going to be pricier and Stephen is a skinflint. Especially for players over 30.

Ware hasn't been as effective as Peppers over the last few years and has been injured more.

I don't think Peppers is going to get significantly more money than Ware.

 

[BAT]

Ware hasn't been as effective as Peppers over the last few years and has been injured more.

I don't think Peppers is going to get more money than Ware.

Didn't you just contradict yourself? Peppers has been on the field and more productive than Ware. Stands to reason he will be the higher priced signing, since he has not declined as much. Cowboys do not need a FT pass rusher, Ware would not be asked to play 3 downs. He should be used like Jeffcoat was used during the 90's, a pass rushing specialist. Jeffcoat actually led team in sacks during those championship seasons, not Haley.

 

[Sydla]

Didn't you just contradict yourself? Peppers has been on the field and more productive than Ware. Stands to reason he will be the higher priced signing, since he has not declined as much. Cowboys do not need a FT pass rusher, Ware would not be asked to play 3 downs. He should be used like Jeffcoat was used during the 90's, a pass rushing specialist. Jeffcoat actually led team in sacks during those championship seasons, not Haley.

Peppers is also 4 years older than Ware. He's close to 40. He's not going to get more than what he makes now and likely will end up playing for less.

 

[waldoputty]

Are we starting a Seniors League?

i am for getting good FAs - but not wasting money ...

 

[jterrell]

When was the last time we signed a FA over 30?

The fact is there are successful guys over 30 who have impacts on a team. To completely shut off a potential FA because he's "too old" is shortsighted. Here are a few names that we were linked to last year in FA:

- Robert Ayers was 31 for the Bucs this past season. Had 6.5 sacks.
- Weddle was very effective for Baltimore, with 4 interceptions and 13 passes defended.

Then there were guys like Reggie Nelson who had 5 interceptions who signed with Oakland.

So the notion that there aren't older veterans out there who could help us in FA is largely a myth.

yawn.. answering questions with questions is not a way to have a discussion.

the answer is you can't name the last over 30 year old who helped us.

so we can take that and move on to the but, but, but there are guys portion....

Robert Ayers is a very mediocre DE. He was also a cap cost last year of nearly 8m for 6.5 sacks.
To keep in perspective, Dallas got 5 sacks out of the 300k, Collins.
Ayers would have been a solid rotational DE here but we didn't have 8m to spend on him.

Weddle is a good player but Dallas had good play at safety last year. Weddle was guaranteed 13m. Dallas would not trade Heath straight up for Weddle today due to age and cost.

Reggie Nelson is just not very good versus the run. Church graded 9th overall at Safety last year and well above Nelson; especially versus the run. Nelson would not have been a starter here and thus is a non-issue.
Wilcox suprisingly was much improved and Heath played very well in his limited role. And of course we have a coveted young free safety in Byron Jones.

So, again, you've failed to really give me a single example of a guy that would fit what Dallas needs at a price they can afford other than Freeney.

30+ year old guys are progress stoppers, they are guaranteed to make over a mil in base, they don't really have a role on a young team looking to build
Dallas isn't just looking to win in 2017. They want to win for the next 10 years.
The way to do that is add 21-23 year olds where possible.

 

[waldoputty]

yawn.. answering questions with questions is not a way to have a discussion.

the answer is you can't name the last over 30 year old who helped us.

so we can take that and move on to the but, but, but there are guys portion....

Robert Ayers is a very mediocre DE. He was also a cap cost last year of nearly 8m for 6.5 sacks.
To keep in perspective, Dallas got 5 sacks out of the 300k, Collins.
Ayers would have been a solid rotational DE here but we didn't have 8m to spend on him.

Weddle is a good player but Dallas had good play at safety last year. Weddle was guaranteed 13m. Dallas would not trade Heath straight up for Weddle today due to age and cost.

Reggie Nelson is just not very good versus the run. Church graded 9th overall at Safety last year and well above Nelson; especially versus the run. Nelson would not have been a starter here and thus is a non-issue.
Wilcox suprisingly was much improved and Heath played very well in his limited role. And of course we have a coveted young free safety in Byron Jones.

So, again, you've failed to really give me a single example of a guy that would fit what Dallas needs at a price they can afford other than Freeney.

30+ year old guys are progress stoppers, they are guaranteed to make over a mil in base, they don't really have a role on a young team looking to build
Dallas isn't just looking to win in 2017. They want to win for the next 10 years.
The way to do that is add 21-23 year olds where possible.

we can afford any of them.
i already showed we can afford 3 of them if we really wanted.
whether there is any worth signing that would sign with us is a different question.

 

[Sydla]

yawn.. answering questions with questions is not a way to have a discussion.

the answer is you can't name the last over 30 year old who helped us.

so we can take that and move on to the but, but, but there are guys portion....

Robert Ayers is a very mediocre DE. He was also a cap cost last year of nearly 8m for 6.5 sacks.
To keep in perspective, Dallas got 5 sacks out of the 300k, Collins.
Ayers would have been a solid rotational DE here but we didn't have 8m to spend on him.

Weddle is a good player but Dallas had good play at safety last year. Weddle was guaranteed 13m. Dallas would not trade Heath straight up for Weddle today due to age and cost.

Reggie Nelson is just not very good versus the run. Church graded 9th overall at Safety last year and well above Nelson; especially versus the run. Nelson would not have been a starter here and thus is a non-issue.
Wilcox suprisingly was much improved and Heath played very well in his limited role. And of course we have a coveted young free safety in Byron Jones.

So, again, you've failed to really give me a single example of a guy that would fit what Dallas needs at a price they can afford other than Freeney.

30+ year old guys are progress stoppers, they are guaranteed to make over a mil in base, they don't really have a role on a young team looking to build
Dallas isn't just looking to win in 2017. They want to win for the next 10 years.
The way to do that is add 21-23 year olds where possible.

Hard to take seriously anyone that trots out the "progress stoppers" angle.

This team is a SB caliber team. At this point, it's not about growing to get to a position where we can compete for a SB. We are there now. So a smart franchise in that situation is able to carefully balance the desire to stay young through the draft, and then add some key veteran FAs here or there, even if they are older guys.

So if there is a key FA out there, who can help you, even if 30 years or older, to just turn your back on them because they are "too old" is shortsighted.

You asked for FAs over 30 that were effective, I gave you 3 quick ones, two of which the Cowboys pursued last year. The fact you think we did fine without them is immaterial to the discussion. The fact is if the Cowboys had signed them, they would have likely been productive players for us which would then undermine your point that we must stay away from 30+ year olds at all costs.

 

[ghst187]

No offense to the OP and I don't disagree that this might be reality for us but this the saddest off-season I've ever seen

 

[Bowdown27]

I'd be really happy w ware. Just for sentimental reasons but I would be opposed to ware peppers or even kid from Giants to be rumored that we like. Harrison? I forget.

 

[jterrell]

we can afford any of them.
i already showed we can afford 3 of them if we really wanted.
whether there is any worth signing that would sign with us is a different question.

no, we can't.
every cap cent we spend comes at a cost.
it's going to be moving money around because the cap spreadsheets are in place for 3-5 years out. .

we do not any cap slots with big cap hits available.
any theories that we do are sci-fi and do not deal in reality.

Hard to take seriously anyone that trots out the "progress stoppers" angle.

This team is a SB caliber team. At this point, it's not about growing to get to a position where we can compete for a SB. We are there now. So a smart franchise in that situation is able to carefully balance the desire to stay young through the draft, and then add some key veteran FAs here or there, even if they are older guys.

So if there is a key FA out there, who can help you, even if 30 years or older, to just turn your back on them because they are "too old" is shortsighted.

You asked for FAs over 30 that were effective, I gave you 3 quick ones, two of which the Cowboys pursued last year. The fact you think we did fine without them is immaterial to the discussion. The fact is if the Cowboys had signed them, they would have likely been productive players for us which would then undermine your point that we must stay away from 30+ year olds at all costs.

I got an idea.
How about you listen to yourself.

Dallas is a SB caliber team.
Can't name last 30+ year old FA they signed.

So, it logically follows what they've done has worked.

 

[Kaiser]

Hall and TNew are far too old at CB. TNew isn't even a legit starting CB anymore and this is the guy who overruled Zimmer in Minny. The same Zimmer who was his DB coach here in Dallas, then Cincy and fought to sign the guy in Minny. Resign Carr or Mo long before these 2 enter any conversation.

Agree on Ware and on the CBs, if you are going to spend 4 - 5 MM per season you should bring back Carr.

I expect the Cowboys to draft a CB and DE high, that would put Carr somewhere 2nd and 4th on the depth chart. I also think that if can get a premium CB in FA also they will make a big offer.

It doesn't look like you can get a difference maker at DE in FA but you can get a good situational edge rusher in the second round. Make that draft pick and hopefully DLaw and Tyrone Crawford are healthy and productive as the starters. We will depth, a good situational pass rusher as a 2nd round pick would be a big addition.

And if they don't spend money on a CB or DE in FA, it will leave plenty of money to go after a FA - and still take a WR in the draft.

 

[waving monkey]

McDanials and I think it's possible according to a report I read.
The rest are the old cliche "progress stoppers".

 

[LatinMind]

People are only saying Ware because of the familiarity and wanting a reunion. Peppers is a much better fit, more productivive and healthy. I have my doubts Ware would even be healthy in a 15-20 snap per game role at this point.

only thing to worry about peppers is him retiring.

Tell me the last over 30 veteran that really helped us?

Freeney is a cool story but there were over 60 FA's last year that were over 30. You pointed to 1.

terrell owens, jon kitna,

i get the age thing but when you have a player like peppers who is still better than 90% of the players playing his posistion in the nfl, its not obsurd to think he could help this team in a spot they need it.

 

[waving monkey]

This silly logic some of you have where you can't sign anyone over 30 cracks me up.

As long as you don't go out and sign 10 free agents that are over 30, a smart franchise would bring in an older, productive player to supplement a young team. There are so many advantage to it. For one, an older player can be a good mentor for young kids and we'll have a bunch of young DEs (see Freeney in Altanta). Older guys also often come with smaller price tags and short contracts that don't kill you down the road.

The fear some of you have over adding strategic older veterans is completely shortsighted.

Peppers is an ideal fit for the right price. He's still productive and mostly healthy (compared to Ware who hasn't played a full season the last two years). Peppers hasn't missed a game in his last 7 seasons. At this point, he's going to be on a one or two year deal, max.

we are a strong young team and thiese young players need more experience not less

 

[AsthmaField]

We're not going to sign a bunch of old guys. Probably won't sign even one.

Datone Jones
Bennie Logan
Jonathan Cyprien
Bradley McDougald
Price Amukamura
Ricky Wagner

those are the types they might sign if they do sign anyone. Every one of those guys are young enough to finish out their contract they'd get and still be playing at a high level. That is one of the main criteria Dallas looks at in free agency these days.

Thankfully, the days are long gone where the team signs big name guys who no longer play up to the high standards that made them famous to begin with.

People's obsession with big name old guys is just crazy.