My FA thoughts

[jterrell]

 

[Sydla]

I got an idea.
How about you listen to yourself.

Dallas is a SB caliber team.
Can't name last 30+ year old FA they signed.

So, it logically follows what they've done has worked.

SB caliber doesn't mean they can't improve their current position. One weakness is clearly at DE/pass rush. The draft rarely gifts a team an instant impact pass rushing end.

And you changed parameters. You didn't ask for the last time we signed a 30 year old player (which was last year by the way, Justin Durant). You asked when we signed a 30 year old that really helped us. We haven't signed a big name player over 30 in some time. However, as refutation to your overarching point that we should stay away from 30 year old players entirely is the fact we looked at two 30 year olds last year that would have helped us.

The main point being that one shouldn't automatically discount a player over 30. Sure, signing a bunch of old players to bad contracts is stupid. But one or two older players to smart deals that can help fix a problem? Absolutely.

 

[Sydla]

We're not going to sign a bunch of old guys. Probably won't sign even one.

Datone Jones
Bennie Logan
Jonathan Cyprien
Bradley McDougald
Price Amukamura
Ricky Wagner

those are the types they might sign if they do sign anyone. Every one of those guys are young enough to finish out their contract they'd get and still be playing at a high level. That is one of the main criteria Dallas looks at in free agency these days.

Thankfully, the days are long gone where the team signs big name guys who no longer play up to the high standards that made them famous to begin with.

People's obsession with big name old guys is just crazy.

People's automatic disregarding of older players is crazy too. No, don't sign 8 of them. But finding a key guy that is older than 30 that can supplement a need? Absolutely.

 

[Sydla]

McDanials and I think it's possible according to a report I read.
The rest are the old cliche "progress stoppers".

McDanials?

 

[jterrell]

SB caliber doesn't mean they can't improve their current position. One weakness is clearly at DE/pass rush. The draft rarely gifts a team an instant impact pass rushing end.

And you changed parameters. You didn't ask for the last time we signed a 30 year old player (which was last year by the way, Justin Durant). You asked when we signed a 30 year old that really helped us. We haven't signed a big name player over 30 in some time. However, as refutation to your overarching point that we should stay away from 30 year old players entirely is the fact we looked at two 30 year olds last year that would have helped us.

The main point being that one shouldn't automatically discount a player over 30. Sure, signing a bunch of old players to bad contracts is stupid. But one or two older players to smart deals that can help fix a problem? Absolutely.

le sigh...
I didn't change parameters...
YOU asked when the last time they signed a 30+ year old player was.
YOU said they were SB contenders.

I'm not sure how you confused yourself.

But to be clear, as I've debated with Mark Lane in twitter for weeks there isn't any good pass rush help coming in FA, because there isn't/won't be any available to us.
It has been tagged and/or extended.
Good pass rushers are hard to find period.
And in FA they cost you ~100 million dollars.
So you step down to paying 40m for average guys or you draft and develop.

Again this isn't complicated.
Dallas has very little cap space and need what they can generate to fill positions where they lack NFL caliber bodies.
The DL is not good, but it does have NFL caliber bodies.
They'll supplement it in the draft and possibly with cheap FAs like Benson Mayowa.

The NFL as a whole has over 400m(IIRC) in cap space available. Dallas after having flipped two contracts already has the least amount of the 32 teams at 6m.

Dallas is thinking long term and abhors overpaying. See Stephen Jones comments today and well every day.

I like acquiring good players as much as anyone else but this team has focused on the draft and improved mightily since moving that direction.

 

[jterrell]

People's automatic disregarding of older players is crazy too. No, don't sign 8 of them. But finding a key guy that is older than 30 that can supplement a need? Absolutely.

You still haven't caught up with the reality of the current NFL.
You let players walk and get awarded comp picks. --which gives you more young, cheap bodies you control for 4 years.
You sign guys and you lose the rights to those comp picks even if you signed lesser players.
So signing a proven vet guy to play 1-2 years makes very little sense really unless it is your own guy you are extending or it is a year you can really go get a handful of free agents.

 

[Chuck 54]

OMG....this isn't the final Romo/Witten tour anymore.

I say absolutely not on any player over 30. You want Peppers at 38? He's been playing from the standup spot as well. Can he even bend over to get in a stance? And Newman? I hope that was a joke.

We don't need veteran leadership. Our rookies were our leaders last season. The guys you name are definitely "progress stoppers." If we sign another Mayowa or Thornton, cool. Otherwise, continue through the draft and develop the young guys you have.

 

[AsthmaField]

People's automatic disregarding of older players is crazy too. No, don't sign 8 of them. But finding a key guy that is older than 30 that can supplement a need? Absolutely.

OK, if you can get peppers at a reasonably low cost, I'm all for it. I don't think we can though. But I've been wrong before.

One old guy in the rotation along the DL, I can buy. Cut his snaps in half and let him be fresh all of the time. Sounds good.

But he's gotta be cheap(ish). Not to mention he's gotta be a RKG (I think Peppers is) and fit into this locker room.

 

[AsthmaField]

People's automatic disregarding of older players is crazy too. No, don't sign 8 of them. But finding a key guy that is older than 30 that can supplement a need? Absolutely.

Also, signing Bennie Logan and Datone Jones fills needs too and those guys are 26 or 27 and can grow with the team. Their best is still ahead of them and they can finish out a contract. Why would you want to spend the money on an old Peppers when you can spend it on two guys like that?

That is more my way (and the team's) of thinking about FA.

 

[waldoputty]

You still haven't caught up with the reality of the current NFL.
You let players walk and get awarded comp picks. --which gives you more young, cheap bodies you control for 4 years.
You sign guys and you lose the rights to those comp picks even if you signed lesser players.
So signing a proven vet guy to play 1-2 years makes very little sense really unless it is your own guy you are extending or it is a year you can really go get a handful of free agents.

you can sign all the bargains you want.
you only play 11 at a time.
you need a few players that make a difference and demand the double team.
if you dont, the team will have a lot of trouble getting to the next stage.
this is not a competition to win while on a budget.
the goal is to win the superbowl and everyone else in the league are losers at the end of the season.

the only exception are the patriots who appear to want to win with style (with one hand tied behind their back) because they want to show how much smarter they are than everyone else

 

[Sydla]

Also, signing Bennie Logan and Datone Jones fills needs too and those guys are 26 or 27 and can grow with the team. Their best is still ahead of them and they can finish out a contract. Why would you want to spend the money on an old Peppers when you can spend it on two guys like that?

That is more my way (and the team's) of thinking about FA.

Well for one, Logan isn't helping the pass rush. I am not sure why people (maybe not necessarily you) keep acting like he's some interior pass rusher that will push the interior of the pocket. He's not that type of player. He showed limited pass rush skills in Philly even when he had Fletcher Cox playing alongside him and eating up double teams. And I think Logan might get paid a decent chunk of change.

Datone Jones isn't much of a pass rusher either.

 

[Sydla]

le sigh...
I didn't change parameters...
YOU asked when the last time they signed a 30+ year old player was.
YOU said they were SB contenders.

I'm not sure how you confused yourself.

But to be clear, as I've debated with Mark Lane in twitter for weeks there isn't any good pass rush help coming in FA, because there isn't/won't be any available to us.
It has been tagged and/or extended.
Good pass rushers are hard to find period.
And in FA they cost you ~100 million dollars.
So you step down to paying 40m for average guys or you draft and develop.

Again this isn't complicated.
Dallas has very little cap space and need what they can generate to fill positions where they lack NFL caliber bodies.
The DL is not good, but it does have NFL caliber bodies.
They'll supplement it in the draft and possibly with cheap FAs like Benson Mayowa.

The NFL as a whole has over 400m(IIRC) in cap space available. Dallas after having flipped two contracts already has the least amount of the 32 teams at 6m.

Dallas is thinking long term and abhors overpaying. See Stephen Jones comments today and well every day.

I like acquiring good players as much as anyone else but this team has focused on the draft and improved mightily since moving that direction.

I wasn't seriously asking when the last time they signed a 30 year old player. It was a sarcastic rebuttal to your question what was the last 30 year old player that was effective for us.

It's very simple. You were the one who said over 30 year olds shouldn't be signed. You then asked name a 30 year old that we signed that helped us a lot. I gave you two names of guys off the top of my head that the Cowboys were interested in signing that were very effective for their teams in 2016. In the end, the idea that you should never sign an over 30 player because they can't be effective for you is ridiculous. I think believe there are times when an older player can be a valuable signing. I think Peppers, if available, would be a valuable signing for the Cowboys (obviously taking into account cost, I would not sign him if he still has lofty contract demands). We obviously disagree.

 

[Texas_Pete]

I'd pass on everyone but Ware. This is a young team and if you add Ware it's only if he wants to give you a hometown discount to play here near his kids and retire a Cowboy.
Beyond that I'm not adding anyone over 30.

Peppers makes no sense. He's old and no longer explosive. Has no ties to the area and no reason to except a cheap deal here. He's made a ton of money including a base of 7m just last year. Him taking peanuts to move here for 1 season makes no sense. Dallas paying much of anything makes no sense. If he's dying to come here of course I listen but this is the longest of long shots.

Hall and TNew are far too old at CB. TNew isn't even a legit starting CB anymore and this is the guy who overruled Zimmer in Minny. The same Zimmer who was his DB coach here in Dallas, then Cincy and fought to sign the guy in Minny. Resign Carr or Mo long before these 2 enter any conversation.

QB... I've seen us too many times add a "name" guy and they are really just coasting into retirement. I'd rather have a young kid or draftee come in and allow Moore to remain #2.
It's Dak's team now. Moore knows the system and wants to eventually be a starter.

Likely some young guys with limited time out there we'd look at. And draftees then UDFA.

 

[waldoputty]

Also, signing Bennie Logan and Datone Jones fills needs too and those guys are 26 or 27 and can grow with the team. Their best is still ahead of them and they can finish out a contract. Why would you want to spend the money on an old Peppers when you can spend it on two guys like that?

That is more my way (and the team's) of thinking about FA.

You think Peppers would cost Logan and Jones?
thought Peppers would be cheap given age?

 

[AsthmaField]

You think Peppers would cost Logan and Jones?
thought Peppers would be cheap given age?

Obviously, I'm not sure but if I had to guess, I think Peppers would be cheaper. I know Logan will cost more but you're getting a very nice DT just entering his prime instead of a guy almost 40. He should cost more.

Jones probably will cost more too, even though he hasn't played up to his first round draft status. IMO GB has been playing Jones out of position (he's a 43 SDE... not a 34 OLB or 5-tech). His strengths are what Marinelli wants and looks for and he shouldn't break the bank. Plenty of upside.

Peppers will fall off a cliff soon and I just don't want him to do so on our dollar.

 

[Sydla]

Obviously, I'm not sure but if I had to guess, I think Peppers would be cheaper. I know Logan will cost more but you're getting a very nice DT just entering his prime instead of a guy almost 40. He should cost more.

Jones probably will cost more too, even though he hasn't played up to his first round draft status. IMO GB has been playing Jones out of position (he's a 43 SDE... not a 34 OLB or 5-tech). His strengths are what Marinelli wants and looks for and he shouldn't break the bank. Plenty of upside.

Peppers will fall off a cliff soon and I just don't want him to do so on our dollar.

Peppers might be at the point he's just signing one year deals. So the risk could be minimal.

And I don't get the obsession with Logan. Nice player but he's a 1 tech and won't help our biggest issue - getting to the QB.

 

[negativecreep]

Tell me the last over 30 veteran that really helped us?

Freeney is a cool story but there were over 60 FA's last year that were over 30. You pointed to 1.

maybe Durant, Ferguson, Ismail, Owens...

 

[negativecreep]

Starting to sound like an unfair question since we don't really sign many plays over 30 latlely...