CFZ My Theory on Jalen Tolbert

[zekecowboy]

so essentially you are saying we over drafted Tolbert, who should have been taken in the 6th or 7th round....

if Dallas drafts 2 wide receivers, Dallas is not expecting Tolbert to be on the team in 2024.

 

[kskboys]

To be fair 10 yard split measures how fast a player can get up to speed from a dead stop. Burst for a receiver is more about getting in and out of breaks and how one accelerates when you need to. A guy can be explosive as hell from a dead stop and still not have great burst once moving.. Sometimes it's because they spend too much time and too many steps breaking down before making a cut and sometimes it's just because they lack that ability to put a foot in the ground and make that sudden cut to create separation. So explosive straight line speed and burst absolutely are not the same thing. That said, the scouting reports did say Tolbert had that burst in his routes as well as the fabulous short area quickness. I think the reason he didn't play fast as a rookie was simply that his head was spinning and he had no idea where to go and what the hell he was supposed to do when he got there. As a result he looked tentative, slow and lost most of the time he was on the field. Hopefully a full offseason fixes that for him and his physical gifts can become more apparent.

Funny how different sites can evaluate a player so differently. The one I trust the most labels him a single speed runner w/ no explosive element.

Going to be interesting to see which scout got it right!!!


Agree that his head was mostly likely spinning. That's why he should've been more of a 5th rounder.

 

[kskboys]

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jalen-tolbert/3200544f-4c14-8914-de91-cd54d59de2a2

Strengths:

• Put together big games against the best opponents.
• Right at home against SEC cornerbacks (SEE: Tennessee game).
• Stellar 2021 production, including seven games of 100-plus yards.
• Shimmies feet and shakes press jam.
• Fights through grabby coverage.
• Routes are gliding and smooth.
• Stick-shift route runner with excellent change of speeds.
• Powerful pre-break burst fools the coverage.
• Sinks hips for quick, sharp turns.
• High school baseball player with natural tracking talent.
• Frames up his defender and imposes his will on the high-point.

Once again, not what I'm seeing. However, there is not a scout who doesn't get it wrong at times.

 

[eromeopolk]

After the 2022 draft, Dallas Cowboys fans fast-forwarded to the future, and Jalen Tolbert was the day 1 starter.

Now, in 2023, they rewind, and it just never came to be.

Most had high hopes for Tolbert going into preseason, so the question is: why?

Why didn't Jalen Tolbert win the starting spot in 2023.

In my opinion, it comes down to experience.

If you know about Tolbert's sports history, he mostly played baseball in his youth. It wasn't until the 11th grade that Tolbert started dabbling in football. During his freshman year, he tallied just 5 receptions for 60 years; his sophomore year he was 27 for 521; during his junior year he caught 64 passes for 1,085 yards, and ended his college career with 84 catches totaling 1,474 yards, according to sports-reference.com.

After the draft, we all heard about how Tolbert was a standout in camp. He probably was. Unless you don't believe the testimony of people attending camp. Then there was preseason. And we saw maybe a little glimpse of what Tolbert could do on a single pass play for 17 yards, I believe it was.

Then, he played a handful of plays versus the Bears, and it never really amounted to much. But if you consider he made a considerable leap every year in college, then it's reasonable to expect he might turn things around after an off-season in 2023.

It's not like he never got open. There were times when he was wide open, sometimes for a touchdown even. But Dak was often looking at something else on the field.. I look for Tolbert to be a bigger part of the offense next season if he can digest the playbook and the speed of the NFL.

McCarthy also told the media he had a hamstring issue, so maybe there was something to that. Or maybe there wasn't. Either way, while it's still too early to judge; it's likely also to risky to sit on your hands and avoid drafting a receiver in the 2023 NFL draft.

3 YEAR RULE ON DRAFT PICKS! See Tom Landry, Jimmy Johnson, and Bill Parcells. 3 years.(period)

 

[kskboys]

3 YEAR RULE ON DRAFT PICKS! See Tom Landry, Jimmy Johnson, and Bill Parcells. 3 years.(period)

Unless you bring a player on board and you are capable of determing that it was a mistake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Key on the word "capable"!!

 

[Bullflop]

Usually, it takes a while for a 3rd round guy to develop into a productive, all-around WR. If JT blossoms into one, Dak will surely use him.

 

[eromeopolk]

Unless you bring a player on board and you are capable of determing that it was a mistake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Key on the word "capable"!!

True. But those situations are obvious (should be). Jerry Dumbo GM Jones has not been capable of determining. They are "the dumb player" Jimmy Johnson warns against.

Two sport players like Tolbert are usually not dumb. Jimmy Johnson said he looks for...1. love the game 2. not dumb 3. playmaker 4. likes the grind (practice, train, rehab). 5. high athletic traits (size, speed, strength, agility). Parcells said he learned the 3 year rule from Landry. Jimmy just had a 3 year rule.

 

[Pass2Run]

Nah hes not good. If he couldnt get playing time with arguably one of the worst wr corps in the league. I dont think its happening. The kid didnt flash at all.

That's the thing. If you were paying attention. He did actually flash a tiny bit. Just not as much as you would have hoped when you saw him coming in.

Happens to the best of them, and us for wanting to assume that.

Time tells.

 

[Pass2Run]

To be fair 10 yard split measures how fast a player can get up to speed from a dead stop. Burst for a receiver is more about getting in and out of breaks and how one accelerates when you need to. A guy can be explosive as hell from a dead stop and still not have great burst once moving.. Sometimes it's because they spend too much time and too many steps breaking down before making a cut and sometimes it's just because they lack that ability to put a foot in the ground and make that sudden cut to create separation. So explosive straight line speed and burst absolutely are not the same thing. That said, the scouting reports did say Tolbert had that burst in his routes as well as the fabulous short area quickness. I think the reason he didn't play fast as a rookie was simply that his head was spinning and he had no idea where to go and what the hell he was supposed to do when he got there. As a result he looked tentative, slow and lost most of the time he was on the field. Hopefully a full offseason fixes that for him and his physical gifts can become more apparent.

Both of you guys are right.

Even more, there's a third kind of explosiveness, the kind that guys like Abinikanda, Metcalf, Pollard have: 3rd gear or 3rd level explosiveness where, once they get to the second level, as soon as they explode into their last gear, they can take it to the house on anyone caught slipping on their step.

That kind of speed can be most devastating. I was always secretly afraid of the Eagles' Sanders blasting the Cowboys defense with that level, just never did.

 

[Jake]

After the 2022 draft, Dallas Cowboys fans fast-forwarded to the future, and Jalen Tolbert was the day 1 starter.

Now, in 2023, they rewind, and it just never came to be.

Most had high hopes for Tolbert going into preseason, so the question is: why?

Why didn't Jalen Tolbert win the starting spot in 2023.

In my opinion, it comes down to experience.

If you know about Tolbert's sports history, he mostly played baseball in his youth. It wasn't until the 11th grade that Tolbert started dabbling in football. During his freshman year, he tallied just 5 receptions for 60 years; his sophomore year he was 27 for 521; during his junior year he caught 64 passes for 1,085 yards, and ended his college career with 84 catches totaling 1,474 yards, according to sports-reference.com.

After the draft, we all heard about how Tolbert was a standout in camp. He probably was. Unless you don't believe the testimony of people attending camp. Then there was preseason. And we saw maybe a little glimpse of what Tolbert could do on a single pass play for 17 yards, I believe it was.

Then, he played a handful of plays versus the Bears, and it never really amounted to much. But if you consider he made a considerable leap every year in college, then it's reasonable to expect he might turn things around after an off-season in 2023.

It's not like he never got open. There were times when he was wide open, sometimes for a touchdown even. But Dak was often looking at something else on the field.. I look for Tolbert to be a bigger part of the offense next season if he can digest the playbook and the speed of the NFL.

McCarthy also told the media he had a hamstring issue, so maybe there was something to that. Or maybe there wasn't. Either way, while it's still too early to judge; it's likely also to risky to sit on your hands and avoid drafting a receiver in the 2023 NFL draft.

Good post. Yeah, I'm not giving up on the kid after one year. I just hope they don't put all their eggs in his basket and make moves at the position

Keep him, and see if he can make a leap forward in year two, but don't count on it either.

 

[Hennessy_King]

That's the thing. If you were paying attention. He did actually flash a tiny bit. Just not as much as you would have hoped when you saw him coming in.

Happens to the best of them, and us for wanting to assume that.

Time tells.

He flashed on the 2 receptions for the year or the offsides in the redzone?

 

[xwalker]

Funny how different sites can evaluate a player so differently. The one I trust the most labels him a single speed runner w/ no explosive element.

Going to be interesting to see which scout got it right!!!

Agree that his head was mostly likely spinning. That's why he should've been more of a 5th rounder.

Dane Brugler and Lance Zierlein both had him as 2nd to 3rd.

Draftnetwork had him as 3rd rounder.

 

[xwalker]

He flashed on the 2 receptions for the year or the offsides in the redzone?

Tony Hill had 2 receptions for 21 yards his rookie season...

He finished his career with 499 for 7988 yards.

 

[speedkilz88]

Funny how different sites can evaluate a player so differently. The one I trust the most labels him a single speed runner w/ no explosive element.

Going to be interesting to see which scout got it right!!!


Agree that his head was mostly likely spinning. That's why he should've been more of a 5th rounder.

Ourlad's says the opposite as well:

The silky-smooth athlete makes the position look easy. His ability to play at different gears and attack the ball with precision and strength can make him a dangerous threat on all levels of the route tree. His skill set needs a lot of work, however, and a team will need patience before they throw him on the field. Drops too many balls and his body control as a route runner is inconsistent. These things are correctable, and his natural gifts are noteworthy. Smooth accelerator in all directions that has a final gear to get behind the secondary. Shows plus-coordination and contact strength in contested situations. Plays aware of spacing regarding boundaries and defenders. Alters his path to the ball with twists and turns of his torso with ease. Smooth lower half when it comes to transitions and change of direction.

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/player/46916/

 

[kskboys]

True. But those situations are obvious (should be). Jerry Dumbo GM Jones has not been capable of determining. They are "the dumb player" Jimmy Johnson warns against.

Two sport players like Tolbert are usually not dumb. Jimmy Johnson said he looks for...1. love the game 2. not dumb 3. playmaker 4. likes the grind (practice, train, rehab). 5. high athletic traits (size, speed, strength, agility). Parcells said he learned the 3 year rule from Landry. Jimmy just had a 3 year rule.

Yup. They generally are if a team has a GM.

 

[kskboys]

Ourlad's says the opposite as well:

The silky-smooth athlete makes the position look easy. His ability to play at different gears and attack the ball with precision and strength can make him a dangerous threat on all levels of the route tree. His skill set needs a lot of work, however, and a team will need patience before they throw him on the field. Drops too many balls and his body control as a route runner is inconsistent. These things are correctable, and his natural gifts are noteworthy. Smooth accelerator in all directions that has a final gear to get behind the secondary. Shows plus-coordination and contact strength in contested situations. Plays aware of spacing regarding boundaries and defenders. Alters his path to the ball with twists and turns of his torso with ease. Smooth lower half when it comes to transitions and change of direction.

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/player/46916/

I know, puzzling to me. I'd love to see him play to see who got this one right!!!!!

 

[kskboys]

Dane Brugler and Lance Zierlein both had him as 2nd to 3rd.

Draftnetwork had him as 3rd rounder.

Purely a traits pick. If you need him to produce right away, take someone else.

 

[Pass2Run]

Good post. Yeah, I'm not giving up on the kid after one year. I just hope they don't put all their eggs in his basket and make moves at the position

Keep him, and see if he can make a leap forward in year two, but don't count on it either.

Yeah, as the saying goes, expect the best, prepare for the worst.

 

[kevm3]

The issue is that we lucked out on a couple of rookies being major contributors in their first year or two, but the reality is that that is not the case most of the time. A lot of guys take time to grow into their position.

The immense 1st and 2nd year success with some rookies led to the misconception that we could plug the vast majority of our holes with rookies and they would come in and perform like seasoned vets. Not going to happen.

 

[Pass2Run]

He flashed on the 2 receptions for the year or the offsides in the redzone?

A couple of times, yes.

Those couple of times were during the very few times anyone outside of team members, staff, and those close to the game were able to get a smidgen of a chance to see him play in the pros.

Because he only played a handful of plays.

You can pretend that you know how this will play out. But those of us who know anything about the game know you don't know. Kinda like your incessant insistence that LVE was trash, and should be benched for Jabril Cox. Wishful assumption rather than a logical assumption.

Do you know how many NFL rookie WRs had less than 100 yards last year?

You think that in two more years, all those guys are still on the same trajectory?