My Top 5 WRs in the Draft

[Hostile]

I read that about his brother Hos. I just hope I don't see anyone use the 'P' word.

Having seen Watkins in the handful of time that I have, I don't think that he will make an immediate impact for this Cowboys team in '06. Now, having said that I can see how it would make much sense to draft a player, any player, on day one who may at best see limmited action in their rookie year.

As I've stated before, this years crop of WR's may be the worst that I've seen in 7-8 years.

Don't get me wrong, Watkins has huge upside, and in 2 or 3 years he may be ready to step into a supporting roll...i.e. a #2 WR. But I don't think he's a #1 WR and I'd be very reluctant to draft a WR on day one who can't step in on day one, especially in this years draft.

Its not the best draft philosophy, but I may wait 'til next year when the class of WR's will be the best that it's been in several years.

2007 WR Class *(Including possible underclassmen) In no particular order

*Sidney Rice 6-4 195 of South Carolina
*James Hardy 6-6 215 of Indiana
*Dwayne Jarrett, 6-5, 195, Soutern California
*Ted Ginn, 6-0, 170, Ohio State
*Calvin Johnson, 6-4, 225, Georgia Tech
Jason Hill, 6-2, 205, Washington State
Steve Smith, 6-1, 195, Southern California
Jeff Samardjiza, 6-5, 210, Notre Dame
*Todd Blythe, 6-4, 210, Iowa State
Jarrett Hicks, 6-4, 210, Texas Tech
Dwayne Bowe, 6-3, 215, LSU
Steve Breaston, 6-1, 180, Michigan (KR)
Aundrae Allison, 6-0, 190, East Carolina
Andre Caldwell, 6-1, 200, Florida
Ryan Moore, 6-3, 215, Miami

And I'm sure, like every year, someone who wasn't mentioned will break out and move into that group.

Point is, I'd rather spend a 1st day pick on one of these cats in '07 than a "top shelf" WR this year who would have been a 4th, 5th or 6th in '07.

But if Watkins...if! If, the Cowboys had a very very (Chris Simms late) late pick in the 3rd, or a 4th, it would be hard not to consider him.

Don't drink the Hater-ade Sal. There is nothing wrong with pedigree.

I want Watkins in the 3rd.

 

[SALADIN]

Don't drink the Hater-ade Sal. There is nothing wrong with pedigree.

I want Watkins in the 3rd.

Hos, I'm beggin' you. Please don't make me start a thread about pedigree.

No one has been able to define pedigree other then when it pertains to horses and dogs.

How can so many of today's NFL player’s be competing at the highest level, succeeding, and setting the standard for future generations without having anyone in their family play and compete at the same level. Again, perhaps this could somehow be proven scientifically, but to this date, it hasn’t, and there is NOTHING that indicates that because you are a descendent or relative of a past or present NFL player, that you’ll be more likely than most to succeed in the NFL. And if so, then how can so many of today's NFL star player’s, competing at the highest level, without having anyone in their family play and compete at the same level?

Where is Jim Browns’ son or grandson? Deion Sanders father played for who? Where is Unitas’s nephew? How come no one has scouted J. Montanas’ oldest son. And…............as if there would ever be a Tyler Rose II.

Human beings do NOT develop in the same kind of existence that animals do.

And Hos, I don’t see why we can’t meet on some kind of common ground and agree that an NFL players’ INDIVIDUAL success’s has everything to do with talent, skill, preparation, & occasionally luck and NOT who their daddy, brother, cousin or whatever kin they have or had.

I’ll leave that bloodline stuff up to the Knights Templar, while there are hundreds of young men who have yet to play in the NFL, there, in front of us, to redefine from their upper, middle, or lower class environment, what it is to be from greatness.

You know I love these kinds of dialog with you Hos

 

[Rush 2112]

Who's that in your sig pic?

 

[Clove]

Don't drink the Hater-ade Sal. There is nothing wrong with pedigree.

I want Watkins in the 3rd.

At one point, and I don't know how true this is, but he was clocked at 4.28 in the 40. He has all types of pedigree, and he's tall and fast. I saw him in one of the Hula Bowl games, and he made a highlight type catch.

Everything with this guy depends on his speed. If he comes in in the 4.3 area at his height, we MUST jump on him. The guy kicks field goals (and was an excellent kicker) he played every sport in HS.. Relatives played professional, I can go on and on and on. Check it out for yourselves. http://www.byucougars.com/football/profiles/00000002094_ftb.html

 

[Hostile]

Hos, I'm beggin' you. Please don't make me start a thread about pedigree.

No one has been able to define pedigree other then when it pertains to horses and dogs.

How can so many of today's NFL player’s be competing at the highest level, succeeding, and setting the standard for future generations without having anyone in their family play and compete at the same level. Again, perhaps this could somehow be proven scientifically, but to this date, it hasn’t, and there is NOTHING that indicates that because you are a descendent or relative of a past or present NFL player, that you’ll be more likely than most to succeed in the NFL. And if so, then how can so many of today's NFL star player’s, competing at the highest level, without having anyone in their family play and compete at the same level?

Where is Jim Browns’ son or grandson? Deion Sanders father played for who? Where is Unitas’s nephew? How come no one has scouted J. Montanas’ oldest son. And…............as if there would ever be a Tyler Rose II.

Human beings do NOT develop in the same kind of existence that animals do.

And Hos, I don’t see why we can’t meet on some kind of common ground and agree that an NFL players’ INDIVIDUAL success’s has everything to do with talent, skill, preparation, & occasionally luck and NOT who their daddy, brother, cousin or whatever kin they have or had.

I’ll leave that bloodline stuff up to the Knights Templar, while there are hundreds of young men who have yet to play in the NFL, there, in front of us, to redefine from their upper, middle, or lower class environment, what it is to be from greatness.

You know I love these kinds of dialog with you Hos

Sal, that's why I'm going to make you have one.



I don't define pedigree as ONLY bloodlines Sal. Let me give you an example of pedigree of a different kind that actually encompasses 2 avenues of pedigree.

Marc Wilson
Gifford Nielson
Jim McMahon
Steve Young
Robbie Bosco
Ty Detmer
Phillip Rivers
Carson Palmer
Matt Leinart

What do these QBs all have in common besides the position? Norm Chow as their coach. 3 of them won Heisman trophies. All of them were top 5 in the voting of it I believe. 2 of them won national championships. I believe the lowest any of them was drafted was the 3rd round. You also have the pedigree of BYU and now possibly USC.

Can a fathers' DNA matter? Sure it can, but only if the son has the same passion for the game as the father. Each of the players who make it in this league and truly excel have to do it because of passion more than anything else. After their passion for the game their talent and smarts are what separate them from others.

Other examples are coaches who trace back to Paul Brown, LBs from Penn State, Offensive Linemen from Boston College, and RBs from USC.

I do believe a father's DNA can matter but that really isn't the only factor of pedigree. It really is probably the least relevant in some cases.

You mentioned horse racing. It is a valid example to illustrate exactly what I mean. The greatest racehorse fo all time was Secretariat. His foals did not come close to equaling his legend. Also look at a trainer like D. Wayne Lukas. How does he get so many horses in the top races? Obviously his training methods have something to do with it. His training methods are just as much about pedigree as the bloodlines of the sire and the dam. The gap between that and greatness is bridged by the heart of the horse.


Fair enough?

 

[Derinyar]

I think Moss can develop into a better WR. All that I read though seems to say he has great hands and speed. He could learn from the best, TG, and return kicks and work special plays until TG leaves.
Moss is like that other guy Moss, get him the ball however you can and let him run IMO.
I don't want to use a first on him. He might be worth a late second but his value IMO is as a third rounder although I doubt he lasts that long.
I would only draft him if we ended up with a second second-round pick or he he was available in the third.

The only real day one project I'm willing to do is a QB. What your talking about is a first or second round project. Teaching someone basic WR skills at the pro level, just doesn't seem like a great idea. If his name wasn't Moss you wouldn't want him before round 4 at the soonest, and he wouldn't have been mentioned as anything other than a KR.

 

[Clove]

The only real day one project I'm willing to do is a QB. What your talking about is a first or second round project. Teaching someone basic WR skills at the pro level, just doesn't seem like a great idea. If his name wasn't Moss you wouldn't want him before round 4 at the soonest, and he wouldn't have been mentioned as anything other than a KR.

I don't know how good Moss will be, but now I see him on nearly every mock draft, going in the 1st round.

The bottom line is, speed and quickness is a dangerous combination in todays NFL, especially because of DB's not being able to get overly physical with receivers. And the way teams like to blitz, a guy like that left 1 on 1 even on a short hitch pass, could do major damage.

 

[Derinyar]

I don't know how good Moss will be, but now I see him on nearly every mock draft, going in the 1st round.

The bottom line is, speed and quickness is a dangerous combination in todays NFL, especially because of DB's not being able to get overly physical with receivers. And the way teams like to blitz, a guy like that left 1 on 1 even on a short hitch pass, could do major damage.

A WR that doesn't run a route right isn't going to be in position to catch a ball. A player that doesn't produce in college isn't likely to suddenly have an epiphiny in the pros and become a great player. I think the Mocks are in love with Moss because of his speed and his name. I suspect that NFL teams aren't going to be as hot on him. Moss has been less than medicore, as everything other than a KR, in college.

 

[Clove]

No matter what WR you pick, he will not start for Parcells this year, unless someone or 2 goes down.

I think our starting WR is in next years draft, so why not just try to find a number 2 or speedy number 3 receiver this year?

 

[Derinyar]

No matter what WR you pick, he will not start for Parcells this year, unless someone or 2 goes down.

I think our starting WR is in next years draft, so why not just try to find a number 2 or speedy number 3 receiver this year?

Thats not necessarily something you want to do early in day one though. I'm just not convinced that Moss has this magical switch in him that will allow him to have success in the NFL when hes never had it in college.

 

[SALADIN]

Sal, that's why I'm going to make you have one.



I don't define pedigree as ONLY bloodlines Sal. Let me give you an example of pedigree of a different kind that actually encompasses 2 avenues of pedigree.

Marc Wilson
Gifford Nielson
Jim McMahon
Steve Young
Robbie Bosco
Ty Detmer
Phillip Rivers
Carson Palmer
Matt Leinart

What do these QBs all have in common besides the position? Norm Chow as their coach. 3 of them won Heisman trophies. All of them were top 5 in the voting of it I believe. 2 of them won national championships. I believe the lowest any of them was drafted was the 3rd round. You also have the pedigree of BYU and now possibly USC.

Can a fathers' DNA matter? Sure it can, but only if the son has the same passion for the game as the father. Each of the players who make it in this league and truly excel have to do it because of passion more than anything else. After their passion for the game their talent and smarts are what separate them from others.

Other examples are coaches who trace back to Paul Brown, LBs from Penn State, Offensive Linemen from Boston College, and RBs from USC.

I do believe a father's DNA can matter but that really isn't the only factor of pedigree. It really is probably the least relevant in some cases.

You mentioned horse racing. It is a valid example to illustrate exactly what I mean. The greatest racehorse fo all time was Secretariat. His foals did not come close to equaling his legend. Also look at a trainer like D. Wayne Lukas. How does he get so many horses in the top races? Obviously his training methods have something to do with it. His training methods are just as much about pedigree as the bloodlines of the sire and the dam. The gap between that and greatness is bridged by the heart of the horse.


Fair enough?

Well, since you put it like that

 

[Hostile]

Well, since you put it like that

I don't know what that means Sal.

 

[SALADIN]

I don't know what that means Sal.

What I was saying is that your idea or belief in pedigree makes sense, as far as coaches and systems are concerned. Hey, don’t think that I haven’t been checking out those ‘Bama LB’s.

I will not concede, however, the fact that whoever you’re paternal lineage is, has anything to do with your future success in any endeavor.

 

[Hostile]

What I was saying is that your idea or belief in pedigree makes sense, as far as coaches and systems are concerned. Hey, don’t think that I haven’t been checking out those ‘Bama LB’s.

I will not concede, however, the fact that whoever you’re paternal lineage is, has anything to do with your future success in any endeavor.

Okay.

 

[Clove]

Thats not necessarily something you want to do early in day one though. I'm just not convinced that Moss has this magical switch in him that will allow him to have success in the NFL when hes never had it in college.

Keyshawn and Glenn are the starters no matter what we think, and Parcells love for these guys will keep it this way until he retires or those receivers are moved on.

With that said, you need guys to compliment them. IMO, you go for a really shifty speed guy. It doesn't have to be Moss, but it needs to be someone to compliment Key and Glenn. If you pick anyone else, he may not start for a couple of years. Crayton is still your third receiver, but if you get someone in the 2nd or 3rd who could be a number 2 receiver in the future, then you're set. Bottom line for me, Parcells will not bring someone in to start over Key/Bledsoe unless is TO (and I don't think so)