Nate just said go after the pass rusher, not the guard.

[Smith22]

If DeCastro is picked with a Top 15 pick he'll join Cadigan in a very small group of 5 guards who have been selected with Top 15 picks in the last twenty five years (with mixed results). Goose/Nate/Brandt etc. are entirely correct ...... NFL GMs really, really, really, really hate using a Top 15 picks on offensive guards.

Sounds about right. I would think GMs would be more willing to draft a guard that could also move out to RT. DeCastro is the safe pick IMO, but if we still have holes out CB/LB when the draft rolls around, I would go with Ingram/Kirkpatrick or best DL available if the value is right.

I'm thinking we can find a good CB prospect in rounds 2 (Gilmore/Boykin/Hosley) and 3 (Bentley/Hayward), so I would lean towards DL/LB in the first.

 

[Doomsday101]

Those 3 spots equate to a 3rd round pick worth of value if you traded down. You may think a 3rd round pick is meaningless, but I don't.

I don't think losing a 3rd rd is meaningless I also do not thik using a 14 a 3 spots early to get the best G in the draft is meaningless. You guys really like to reach. You have a view that is fine it is not the only view. Your way it not the only way. I know you like to think that but it is false. You want a pass rusher you can't name one you want just a generic pass rusher. :laugh2:

 

[Doomsday101]

Ekuban, Carver and Pittman were all Anthony Spencers. OK Carver was just a flat bust but the other guys were average NFL players and that's the DE you get at pick 20 or later. Pittman was a round 2 guy.

That's why you want to use high picks on pass rushers. Because they are really hard to find later in drafts.

But all that side, of course you are correct. Dallas has to value the player at 14. I am fine with Poe or Janoris Jenkins or Ingram because to me those are definitely top 14 players. And what'll suck is on draft day they'll all go by 10 probably with my general luck. DeCastro, Kirkpatrick, Glenn and Perry are in a second group for me where I'd trade back a few spots and get one of them.

Yoyu use high picks on player who are worth a high pick. You don't go OLB because you want a pass rush you don't go DE because you want a pass rush. You choose a player who you are certain of at least the best of your ability. When we selected Ware people knew he was a pure pass rusher. Why is DeCastro name ranked so high? because people feel he is that good. As for Jenkins, given his past he is a risk and while risk can pan out, 14 is high for a guy with his background and history. Hell if Florida is willing to kick you off the team that says a lot given some of the players who have gone through that program. Ingram I like, Kickpatrick I like and would be happy with either. Only place we seem do differ in DeCastro

 

[cowboysooner]

Ekuban, Carver and Pittman were all Anthony Spencers. OK Carver was just a flat bust but the other guys were average NFL players and that's the DE you get at pick 20 or later. Pittman was a round 2 guy.

That's why you want to use high picks on pass rushers. Because they are really hard to find later in drafts.

But all that side, of course you are correct. Dallas has to value the player at 14. I am fine with Poe or Janoris Jenkins or Ingram because to me those are definitely top 14 players. And what'll suck is on draft day they'll all go by 10 probably with my general luck. DeCastro, Kirkpatrick, Glenn and Perry are in a second group for me where I'd trade back a few spots and get one of them.

In the 2011 pro bowl:
5 of 6 pass rushing outside linebackers are drafted in the first round. They were taken at 10, 20, 26, 11 and 2.

5 of 8 defensive ends are first rounders. They were taken at 10, 7, 27, 2 and 15.

5 of the 8 interior d linemen were 1st rounders. They were taken 6, 13, 21, 4 and 9.

Total 15 of 22 or 68% were 1st rounders.


Of the 7 that were not first rounders, 2 had rare measurables but questions about motor or production Geno Atkins and Solai. 2 had rare college sack totals Jared Allen and Dummerville. 2 were BCS school late picks with one excellent trait Ratliff (quickness) and Antonio Smith (super long arms). 1 was created by chemistry or improved remarkably from age 22 to 26 (Harrison).

None were found in the 2nd or 3rd round.

 

[juck]

I agree. We need a center. Get that dude from Houston or Scott Wells.

 

[jterrell]

Yoyu use high picks on player who are worth a high pick. You don't go OLB because you want a pass rush you don't go DE because you want a pass rush. You choose a player who you are certain of at least the best of your ability. When we selected Ware people knew he was a pure pass rusher. Why is DeCastro name ranked so high? because people feel he is that good. As for Jenkins, given his past he is a risk and while risk can pan out, 14 is high for a guy with his background and history. Hell if Florida is willing to kick you off the team that says a lot given some of the players who have gone through that program. Ingram I like, Kickpatrick I like and would be happy with either. Only place we seem do differ in DeCastro

Give up the one guy fixation and take a few deep breaths.

No one is disagreeing that Dallas needs to take a player they value in their top 14 players. And no one is suggesting a blind grab at a pass rusher.

What people are suggesting is that DeCastro shouldn't have a top 14 value because he is an OG. He may be around 16-20. And if you take him at 14 he is a slight reach as the highest drafted OG in a decade. Not a terrible pick but hardly some ungodly value as pretended here in these threads.

End of the day to me Tannehill isn't a top 30 player for us. I am also not sure we'll have any WR in our top 14. So you get a chance to get real value at 14. That might be Poe, Ingram, Jenkins or whomever but the team should have a guy rated top 12 at a position of need and value.

End of the day DeCastro at 14 to me is like ... eh... ok. But I have much higher hopes than that picking that high. I want a guy who is going to command 15 mil a season in 5 years.

All the newer lists have amazingly dropped DeCastro a bit and pushed Poe and Ingram up quite high. I agree that Jenkins is a tremendous risk but NFL teams have the resources to investigate and make those calls.

 

[Doomsday101]

Give up the one guy fixation and take a few deep breaths.

No one is disagreeing that Dallas needs to take a player they value in their top 14 players. And no one is suggesting a blind grab at a pass rusher.

What people are suggesting is that DeCastro shouldn't have a top 14 value because he is an OG. He may be around 16-20. And if you take him at 14 he is a slight reach as the highest drafted OG in a decade. Not a terrible pick but hardly some ungodly value as pretended here in these threads.

End of the day to me Tannehill isn't a top 30 player for us. I am also not sure we'll have any WR in our top 14. So you get a chance to get real value at 14. That might be Poe, Ingram, Jenkins or whomever but the team should have a guy rated top 12 at a position of need and value.

End of the day DeCastro at 14 to me is like ... eh... ok. But I have much higher hopes than that picking that high. I want a guy who is going to command 15 mil a season in 5 years.

All the newer lists have amazingly dropped DeCastro a bit and pushed Poe and Ingram up quite high. I agree that Jenkins is a tremendous risk but NFL teams have the resources to investigate and make those calls.

"He may be around 16-20. And if you take him at 14 he is a slight reach"

Then I would slightly reach to put together a great OL with Tyron Smith and Decastro as my corner stones.

 

[Zaxor]

Thinking of DeCastro as "only a guard" is so narrow minded.

DeCastro and Glenn are interior offensive players.

DeCastro can snap the ball.

Glenn can kick out to RT in a pinch, and some teams think he can play OT.

Drafting in the offensive line is about as safe as you can get.

Drafting in the defensive line is about as risky as it gets.

The best players in round 1 are guards this year, not centers.

The Cowboys need 3 new interior offensive line players, so drafting DeCastro or Glenn is smart business.

A blue-chip player is a blue-chip player, and the Cowboys have 1 blue-chip player in their offensive line.

no they don't and they just spent draft picks last year on the position and you are going to throw those draft picks right out before even seeing if they can play...Everybody knew Arkin was going to redshirt but was supposedly the better guy but had to get rebuilt...Nagy according to our own Couchscout was getting better and better the more playing time he got and Killa was doing well himself all these guys were doing this with out the benefit of a normal offseason..... so.....perhaps you all need to readjust your thinking just a bit with what is needed and what is not...we have Arkin/Nagy/Killa all are going into there 2nd year we have the possibility of signing a FA as insurance if one of these guys don't pan out....A center is were the need for competition arises...and my eyes and ears tell me they got 2 in the mid rounds they got their eyes on.

now lets turn it around to the defensive side of the ball you have What at CB? a guy trying to come back from injury and a nickle guy who looked real bad when he tried to man the outside position before and nothing else really to speak of (you can hope for FA help but most teams do not let go of CB's that can play unlike other positions like say... guard)

Safety what ya got there?

ILB?

OLB?

DE/NT?

How many draft picks ya got?...can you hit on them all

Who in FA is going to be worthy of pursuit?


That is why this team can't afford to throw out draft picks and that is what you are doing if you do not give the trio of Arkin/Nagy/Killa at least a shot


so imho we do not need 3 new interior olineman...

 

[cowboysooner]

"He may be around 16-20. And if you take him at 14 he is a slight reach"

Then I would slightly reach to put together a great OL with Tyron Smith and Decastro as my corner stones.

If I am going to spend a first round pick and big ticket free agent money on guard and pass rush, I spend on Carl Nicks and take a chance on a drafted pass rusher. I know that Carl Nicks is a great player with rare size. I think DeCastro is Alan Faneca if he pans out and I would rather have Nicks who can move defensive tackle in short yardage and goal line. (A real weakness on this team)

I know that Anthony Spencer is a good (B or B-) not great player that I have to give A- or B+ money to retain. I am going to trust my scouts to find me at least a B- player given that at worst only 4 or 5 dl or outside linebackers will be off of the board when I pick.

 

[Doomsday101]

If I am going to spend a first round pick and big ticket free agent money on guard and pass rush, I spend on Carl Nicks and take a chance on a drafted pass rusher. I know that Carl Nicks is a great player with rare size. I think DeCastro is Alan Faneca if he pans out and I would rather have Nicks who can move defensive tackle in short yardage and goal line. (A real weakness on this team)

I know that Anthony Spencer is a good (B or B-) not great player that I have to give A- or B+ money to retain. I am going to trust my scouts to find me at least a B- player given that at worst only 4 or 5 dl or outside linebackers will be off of the board when I pick.

Nicks is very good and if Dallas got him in FA then of course it changes what we likely do in the draft. By the same token if Dallas were to get Mario Williams I'm sure it would have an impact on what we do on the draft.

I think Dallas keeping Spencer may have an impact on what we do in the draft if the Cowboys do not think any of the prospect are better than what we have in Spencer.

There are many different scenarios of things that could happen this is why I have said I would not be upset getting an Ingram, Kirkpatrick or Upshaw

 

[fanfromvirginia]

All the newer lists have amazingly dropped DeCastro a bit and pushed Poe and Ingram up quite high. I agree that Jenkins is a tremendous risk but NFL teams have the resources to investigate and make those calls.

I haven't noticed DeCastro dropping. Poe and Ingram have definitely shot up, that much is true. They may have both shot up a little bit too high though.

Edit: Of the two lists posted on CZ recently, one has him at 11 and another at 16. So in one list he is a little bit lower than he has been generally and the other has him roughly where he has been placed for months.