Nate Orchard in Round 2?

[LatinMind]

I put him in the same category as Simeon Rice. And he did pretty well in this same style defense.

Rice was listed at 6'4" 259 lbs coming into the draft as an outside linebacker converted to defensive end.

Orchard is listed at 6'3" 250 lbs coming into the draft as a defensive end who may be able to convert to outside linebacker.

Given this team's biggest, most glaring weakness, I don't know how any of us would turn down a guy who had 18.5 sacks last year.

Simeon Rice was 260 at the combine, and retired basically playing around 269, and orchards playing weight is in the 240s.

 

[Stash]

Simeon Rice was 260 at the combine, and retired basically playing around 269, and orchards playing weight is in the 240s.

And Orchard officially weighed in at 251 pounds at the Senior Bowl

You're haggling over 9 pounds here and it's the weakest of arguments. If you want to pick holes in his game, that's one thing. But any criticisms need to bring more than 9 pounds.

How did the player manage to achieve 18.5 sacks and 21 tackles for loss last year? Luck?

"I love Nate Orchard and what he did this week," NFL Media Analyst Daniel Jeremiah said. "The question of his size wasn't an issue at all. You saw his ability to get off blocks and get off the ball."

This team's biggest need is a pass rush and sacks. If this guy can bring that, I don't see how he can be dismissed.

 

[xwalker]

Simeon Rice was 260 at the combine, and retired basically playing around 269, and orchards playing weight is in the 240s.

Combine:
Orchard 250
Rice 259

Those are the facts. Anything else is just speculation.

 

[Derinyar]

And Orchard officially weighed in at 251 pounds at the Senior Bowl

You're haggling over 9 pounds here and it's the weakest of arguments. If you want to pick holes in his game, that's one thing. But any criticisms need to bring more than 9 pounds.

How did the player manage to achieve 18.5 sacks and 21 tackles for loss last year? Luck?

"I love Nate Orchard and what he did this week," NFL Media Analyst Daniel Jeremiah said. "The question of his size wasn't an issue at all. You saw his ability to get off blocks and get off the ball."

This team's biggest need is a pass rush and sacks. If this guy can bring that, I don't see how he can be dismissed.

Dismissed vs pushed down is two different things. He can sack the QB in college, that's not in question. How do those skills/abilities translate into the NFL is the question. A little light is a problem in a 4-3 DE unless the player is exceptionally quick, and even then it limits the player. You have to look into how he got the sacks, he had 4 against UCLA. Does UCLA have a good line, potential high NFL draft picks? Were they coverage sacks, because Hundley has a tendency to hold the ball? I know I'm not qualified to judge tape, and that's what has to be done on him. Most seemed to have him mid 1st before the juniors started declaring. That pushed him down because those juniors are thought to be better talents. If he's there in the 2nd round I think he sounds like a very reasonable pick for us. But based off of draft boards currently he feels like he'd be a bit of a reach for us at 27.

To me he's starting to feel a lot like DeMarcus Lawrence. He's someone that you like as a pass rusher, but has a few too many warts to warrant a high draft pick.

 

[supercowboy8]

Orchard won't be there at 60. Im not starting to like our options at 27. I woulo like to see dallas, unless someone fall as to 27, trade back in to the top 2nd and also trade up from 60. Get 2 early 2nd round picks

 

[Stash]

Dismissed vs pushed down is two different things. He can sack the QB in college, that's not in question. How do those skills/abilities translate into the NFL is the question. A little light is a problem in a 4-3 DE unless the player is exceptionally quick, and even then it limits the player. You have to look into how he got the sacks, he had 4 against UCLA. Does UCLA have a good line, potential high NFL draft picks? Were they coverage sacks, because Hundley has a tendency to hold the ball? I know I'm not qualified to judge tape, and that's what has to be done on him. Most seemed to have him mid 1st before the juniors started declaring. That pushed him down because those juniors are thought to be better talents. If he's there in the 2nd round I think he sounds like a very reasonable pick for us. But based off of draft boards currently he feels like he'd be a bit of a reach for us at 27.

I'll reiterate my previous comparison to Simeon Rice. The difference is 1 inch in height and 9 pounds in weight. Rice not only survived in this defense, he thrived.

I see no reason for discounting Orchard based on size alone. If that was a dealbreaker, we never would have drafted the 6'3 251 pound Demarcus Lawrence last year, right?

To me he's starting to feel a lot like DeMarcus Lawrence. He's someone that you like as a pass rusher, but has a few too many warts to warrant a high draft pick.

But, again, it didn't stop us from drafting Lawrence, not to mention using two picks, did it?

I prefer to take a guy who has shown he can do it over drafting one and hoping he can.

And I think we have plenty of guys who can handle the DE spot in obvious running situations. But this team's biggest need is obviously pressuring opposing quarterbacks.

Just my opinion anyway.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

With Orchard, you are really only talking about 1 year of production. I don't love this kid and I've seen him play.

 

[SportsGuru80]

And Orchard officially weighed in at 251 pounds at the Senior Bowl

You're haggling over 9 pounds here and it's the weakest of arguments. If you want to pick holes in his game, that's one thing. But any criticisms need to bring more than 9 pounds.

How did the player manage to achieve 18.5 sacks and 21 tackles for loss last year? Luck?

"I love Nate Orchard and what he did this week," NFL Media Analyst Daniel Jeremiah said. "The question of his size wasn't an issue at all. You saw his ability to get off blocks and get off the ball."

This team's biggest need is a pass rush and sacks. If this guy can bring that, I don't see how he can be dismissed.

Please don't bring facts to the table sir, not wanted around these parts ya hear!

 

[SportsGuru80]

I'll take Orchard at one end position and Lawrence at the other... Have a meeting at the QB and hit the RB on the way to the QB!

 

[DFWJC]

Simeon Rice was 260 at the combine, and retired basically playing around 269, and orchards playing weight is in the 240s.

and players keep getting bigger and faster.
Hard to compare a player who came out of college 20 years ago.

 

[LatinMind]

Orchard won't be there at 60. Im not starting to like our options at 27. I woulo like to see dallas, unless someone fall as to 27, trade back in to the top 2nd and also trade up from 60. Get 2 early 2nd round picks

I think Jerry is planting that seed in saying they would be willing to draft OL.

 

[ABQcowboyJR]

I just don't like the player. Outside of some quickness he doesn't have a lot of tools. Guy has JAG written all over him IMO.

 

[supercowboy8]

Just to add to my comparison of Orchard to Lawrence.
Lawerence at 2014 combine
6'3 251
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/demarcus-lawrence?id=2543490

Orchard at the 2015 combine
6'3" 250
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/Nate-Orchard?id=2552299&id=2552299

Also they both ran 4.8 40

 

[supercowboy8]

I'll take Orchard at one end position and Lawrence at the other... Have a meeting at the QB and hit the RB on the way to the QB!

It's crazy hiw much the to are alike
Same size and even ran the same 40 and have the same arm length 33 3/4

 

[supercowboy8]

Combine:
Orchard 250
Rice 259

Those are the facts. Anything else is just speculation.

Combine
Lawerence 251 orchard 250
Both ran the same 40 and same arm length both are 6'3

 

[xwalker]

Combine
Lawerence 251 orchard 250
Both ran the same 40 and same arm length both are 6'3

I would be fine with Orchard in the 2nd; although, I think he will be selected somewhere between the Cowboys 1st and 2nd round picks.

 

[supercowboy8]

I would be fine with Orchard in the 2nd; although, I think he will be selected somewhere between the Cowboys 1st and 2nd round picks.

I agree I don't think he will fall to 60 but I think at 27 dallas will need to trade back. Add a 3rd. Then package the 3rd and pick 60 to move up higher in to the 2nd round. I think we need to top 50 players. I would also look into trading the other 3rd and a 4th or next year's 3rd to get back into the late 2nd or early 3rd if a RB or CB they really like is there.

Adding 2 top 50 players to this DL will be a big add. Mario Edwards or preston smith and Orchard.

If we can move around enough to get 2 of our top 40 players on the board and 3 of the top 60. That's a Damn good draft.

 

[BAT]

I put him in the same category as Simeon Rice. And he did pretty well in this same style defense.

Rice was listed at 6'4" 259 lbs coming into the draft as an outside linebacker converted to defensive end.

Orchard is listed at 6'3" 250 lbs coming into the draft as a defensive end who may be able to convert to outside linebacker.

Given this team's biggest, most glaring weakness, I don't know how any of us would turn down a guy who had 18.5 sacks last year.

Rice was not a one year wonder and ran a 4.6 vs. 4.8 by Orchard. Cowboys don't need a clone of Demarcus Lawrence.

 

[Stash]

Rice was not a one year wonder and ran a 4.6 vs. 4.8 by Orchard. Cowboys don't need a clone of Demarcus Lawrence.

Cowboys need any and all pass rushers they can get! If being a 'clone of Demarcus Lawrence' is now a bad thing I guess you feel we should get rid of Lawrence too?

And somehow getting 18.5 sacks isn't considered improving at the position or coming into his own, it's a 'one year wonder'?

I guess no matter what the guy does, he can't win.

 

[locked&loaded]

Just posting for arguments sake

DLaw ran a 4.69 and 4.7 at his pro day. Obviously better than a 4.8, we shall wait until Orchard has his pro day.

Lawrence- 4.31 20 yard shuttle Orchard - 4.43 20 yard shuttle
Lawrence - 7. 46 3 cone drill Orchard - 728
Lawrence 113 Broad Jump Orchard - 115
Larence 34.5 vert Orchard - 31.5