NCAA Men's Basketball Thread

[DFWJC]

Duke isn’t the same team without Zion. They need his scoring and energy. He’s going to return so they’ll be fine.

I forgot Shayok is leading the Big 12 in scoring and he was the 4th or 5th option at UVA. Big difference in talent between teams like ISU and UVA.

You know, until I put togther that NCAA champions post, I had thought for sure UVa had won a title. I knew Maryland had finally gotten one and that Wake maybe could have many years ago. But Virginia has such a history, I had just assumed.....

Hope it happens soon.

 

[jterrell]

You may be the only person in the country who believes that. I can't even name the last time the Big 12 won a NC. It's normally KU and then just everyone else. This year seems to be a lot more depth but the top teams just aren't good enough to contend.

You know UNC has wins against the current #1 and #3 teams. They aren't overrated.

Currently the ACC has 3 teams out of 14 with a winning record versus the AP top 20.
The Big 12 has 4 out of 10.

No offense but you are posting utter nonsense.

UNC has wins over Duke minus Zion(uhh congratz), and a very legit win over Gonzaga.
They also have losses to Texas, Louisville and UK.
They lost the only meeting to Virginia.

They'll be quickly bounced in the tourney THIS YEAR imho which is the discussion.

Historically of course the ACC is better. No one argued that.
The Big East was the best but when it broke up the ACC took the mantle.
That has shifted to the Big 12 now which has the best top to bottom basketball league in the country and plays each other twice.

Are we gonna call the Big East in this form the best since Villanova won last year?

The last Big 12 champ was Kansas 2008 and yes this conference was all Kansas all the time since it's inception but it now a dog fight for Kansas and they are unlikely to win the title again this year.
Texas Tech just beat them by 30 at home after losing by almost as much on the road.
Last year's elite 8 included 3 Big 12 teams in a 10 team conference.

4 of the Big 12's 10 teams(7 bids) made the sweet 16 and the conference won at a .632
4 of the ACC's 14 teams(9 bids) made the sweet 16 and they had a .571 win rate.

Expect more of the same this year.

The Big 12 has become outstanding and the ACC is pretty much Duke and Virginia top heavy this year.

Texas Tech is every bit as good as Virginia.

 

[jterrell]

Duke isn’t the same team without Zion. They need his scoring and energy. He’s going to return so they’ll be fine.

I forgot Shayok is leading the Big 12 in scoring and he was the 4th or 5th option at UVA. Big difference in talent between teams like ISU and UVA.

You didn't forget because he isn't, KU's Lawson leads the Big 12 in scoring and rebounding.
Shayok is 2nd for the 5th place Iowa St Cyclones.

 

[DFWJC]

Top three teams in the ACC are better than any Big 12 team.
Just my opinion

If we want to argue who, on average, is better including all teams in the conference top to bottom, the edge may very well go to the Big 12.
But I'll take championships and final fours...over sweet 16s.

• Should be interesting to see if UNC gets bounced right away in the tourney. Would be VERY unusual, and they seem to be radically better now than early in the year...as does Kentucky.
• Should also be interesting to see if Texas Tech the advances further than Virginia. I'll place my bet on the Hokies.

 

[jterrell]

Quality wins
The nonconference season in college basketball features plenty of heavyweight battles across conferences, whether it's the Big Ten-ACC Challenge, the SEC-Big 12 Challenge or the Gavitt Games.

As a result, it's much easier to compare conferences than in college football, which only has a handful of nonconference games, and very few of them are between good teams from different conferences.

Here's a look at each conference's record against other teams in the six major conferences. Games against ranked teams outside these conferences are also included, as Gonzaga, Nevada, Houston and Buffalo are good enough to be considered quality games.

• Big 12: 24-15
• Big Ten: 32-27
• Big East: 22-20
• ACC: 30-28
• SEC: 25-29
• Pac-12: 7-32

The Big 12 ran away with this category in terms of winning percentage, finishing with wins in 61.5 percent of its big games, compared to 54.2 percent for the Big Ten, which finished in second.

The gap was almost entirely due to Illinois, however. As the only Big Ten team with a losing record, Illinois went an astonishing 0-6 in these games. The rest of the conference won 60.4 percent of these games.

A losing record in big games is a bad look for the SEC, which is pretty weak beyond the top four teams.

That's nothing compared to the ineptitude of the Pac-12. It managed just seven wins in 39 big games, good for a .179 winning percentage.

 

[jterrell]

Top three teams in the ACC are better than any Big 12 team.
Just my opinion

If we want to argue who, on average, is better including all teams in the conference top to bottom, the edge may very well go to the Big 12.
But I'll take championships and final fours...over sweet 16s.

• Should be interesting to see if UNC gets bounced right away in the tourney. Would be VERY unusual, and they seem to be radically better now than early in the year...as does Kentucky.
• Should also be interesting to see if Texas the advances further than Virginia. I'll place my bet on the Hokies.

Last year the Big 12 performed better in the NCAA tourney including the elite 8 and Final 4 areas.
UT won't advance past the Hokies, but Texas Tech very well might as they did last year. Chris Beard is arguably the best coach in the country and Jarrett Culver is a top 10 NBA pick.
TTech and Virginia are basically mirror images as the best defensive teams in college basketball.
UT isn't very good (7 conf losses) but they did beat UNC.

 

[DFWJC]

….
UT won't advance past the Hokies, but Texas Tech very well might as they did last year. Chris Beard is arguably the best coach in the country and Jarrett Culver is a top 10 NBA pick.
…...

I meant Tech, I'll fix it.

 

[jterrell]

I meant Tech, I'll fix it.

FWIW I had Virginia picked last year and Joe Lunardi has them facing Texas in a 2nd round match up. Va is far better and would roll.
He also ironically has UNC as a 2 seed facing possible 3 seed Tech which would be delicious and I'd favor Tech there.

He has 8 Big 12 teams out of 10 making the tourney which is nuts and the kind of quality and depth I am talking about the past 2 seasons.

I expect 3 or 4 Big 12 teams to make the sweet 16 again and 2 the elite 8.
The ACC i'd guess matches those totals but would do so with 40% more teams in the conference.

 

[uvaballa]

Currently the ACC has 3 teams out of 14 with a winning record versus the AP top 20.
The Big 12 has 4 out of 10.

No offense but you are posting utter nonsense.

UNC has wins over Duke minus Zion(uhh congratz), and a very legit win over Gonzaga.
They also have losses to Texas, Louisville and UK.
They lost the only meeting to Virginia.

They'll be quickly bounced in the tourney THIS YEAR imho which is the discussion.

Historically of course the ACC is better. No one argued that.
The Big East was the best but when it broke up the ACC took the mantle.
That has shifted to the Big 12 now which has the best top to bottom basketball league in the country and plays each other twice.

Are we gonna call the Big East in this form the best since Villanova won last year?

The last Big 12 champ was Kansas 2008 and yes this conference was all Kansas all the time since it's inception but it now a dog fight for Kansas and they are unlikely to win the title again this year.
Texas Tech just beat them by 30 at home after losing by almost as much on the road.
Last year's elite 8 included 3 Big 12 teams in a 10 team conference.

4 of the Big 12's 10 teams(7 bids) made the sweet 16 and the conference won at a .632
4 of the ACC's 14 teams(9 bids) made the sweet 16 and they had a .571 win rate.

Expect more of the same this year.

The Big 12 has become outstanding and the ACC is pretty much Duke and Virginia top heavy this year.

Texas Tech is every bit as good as Virginia.

ACC has more teams than Big 12 so it can make things favor each conference depending on how you look at things. It if they put 9 teams in the tourney 3 straight years it’s pretty easy to see why they are the best. Plus they’ve won more championships than any other conference by wide margins in the last 10 or 20 years.

 

[jterrell]

And going back to age old conference attractiveness yes it is the Big 12.

The money is easy to trace.
SEC
Big 10
Big 12
ACC
Pac12

This is with the National Champions Clemson Tigers in tow and raking in large dough.

The Big 12 ranks 3rd in revenue and does not report it's Tier 3 rights unlike the other confs. So 5-7 m per school isn't added in.
UT and OU are bigger brand names than anything the ACC has to offer and both rank top 6 in overall athletic profit/revenue for the prior year.
The highest rated ACC team is FSU at 17. It is the only ACC school in the top 25.
Texas Tech is at 25 with a football team that is awful but yes all the other programs are winning

Clemson and FSU Both flirted heavily with the Big 12 before staying home.
But they did so for a reason and that reason is simply money.

You can certainly celebrate Clemson being so dominant but the rest of the conference isn't all that good now and it's not like the Big 12 hurting with consecutive Heisman winners and CFB participant in 3 out of 4 years.
And the bellcows have now had two top 10 recruiting classes in a row. For UT both top 5.

 

[jterrell]

ACC has more teams than Big 12 so it can make things favor each conference depending on how you look at things. It if they put 9 teams in the tourney 3 straight years it’s pretty easy to see why they are the best. Plus they’ve won more championships than any other conference by wide margins in the last 10 or 20 years.

15-20 years has zero to do with our discussion.
If you want to argue the ACC has been better over 20 years that is obvious.

But the ACC wasn't even in this configuration more than 5 years ago.

I am arguing the Big 12 has become the best basketball conference the past 2 seasons.

9 teams out of 14 is simply not more impressive than 7 out of 10.
And it is definitely not more impressive to have 3 elite 8 teams out of those 10 teams than it is 2 elite 8 teams both losing(1 to the Big 12) out of 14.


RPI ratings/rankings by Conf w top team updated today.

1 Big 12 0.593 Kansas (21-7) 1
2 Big Ten 0.574 Michigan St (23-5) 2
3 ACC 0.572 Duke (24-4) 3
4 SEC 0.572 Kentucky (24-4) 4
5 Big East 0.567 Marquette (23-4) 5
6 American 0.549 Houston (26-1) 6
7 Pac-12 0.535 Washington (22-5) 7

 

[uvaballa]

15-20 years has zero to do with our discussion.
If you want to argue the ACC has been better over 20 years that is obvious.

But the ACC wasn't even in this configuration more than 5 years ago.

I am arguing the Big 12 has become the best basketball conference the past 2 seasons.

9 teams out of 14 is simply not more impressive than 7 out of 10.
And it is definitely not more impressive to have 3 elite 8 teams out of those 10 teams than it is 2 elite 8 teams both losing(1 to the Big 12) out of 14.


RPI ratings/rankings by Conf w top team updated today.

1 Big 12 0.593 Kansas (21-7) 1
2 Big Ten 0.574 Michigan St (23-5) 2
3 ACC 0.572 Duke (24-4) 3
4 SEC 0.572 Kentucky (24-4) 4
5 Big East 0.567 Marquette (23-4) 5
6 American 0.549 Houston (26-1) 6
7 Pac-12 0.535 Washington (22-5) 7

Until they actually win a NC no one is considering the Big 12 as the top basketball conference. RPI rankings by conference definitely helps if you have less teams. ACC cellar dwellers are pulling down their rankings. But the ACC has 5 teams in the RPI top 25 and Big 12 only has 3.

I guess we should wait until the tourney and see how things shake out to really see which conference has more teams advanced deep.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Until they actually win a NC no one is considering the Big 12 as the top basketball conference. RPI rankings by conference definitely helps if you have less teams. ACC cellar dwellers are pulling down their rankings. But the ACC has 5 teams in the RPI top 25 and Big 12 only has 3.

I guess we should wait until the tourney and see how things shake out to really see which conference has more teams advanced deep.

I agree. I mean, any given day since the advent of the friendlier 3 point shot, any team can beat anybody on any given day. I mean, just look last year. Providence nearly beat A&M in the first round last year and in the second, A&M bounce UNC. The next week, they got beat down by Michigan. It's any given day anymore.

I will say this, I think when you talk about best conference, you have to really define what the criteria is. Are you talking about out of conference performance, are you talking about head to head performance against specific conferences, are you talking about Tourney results, final fours, NCs? All those things are different.

In so far as the Big 12, while I think it's fair to say that they have been better over the past few years, I would not call them the best in America. They really only have one team in that Conference that can be considered a National Power IMO, and that is Kansas, of course. But they are getting better and they are coming up. They just aren't at a point where they can compete with the ACC or the Big 10 or what have you. Not yet IMO.

 

[uvaballa]

I agree. I mean, any given day since the advent of the friendlier 3 point shot, any team can beat anybody on any given day. I mean, just look last year. Providence nearly beat A&M in the first round last year and in the second, A&M bounce UNC. The next week, they got beat down by Michigan. It's any given day anymore.

I will say this, I think when you talk about best conference, you have to really define what the criteria is. Are you talking about out of conference performance, are you talking about head to head performance against specific conferences, are you talking about Tourney results, final fours, NCs? All those things are different.

In so far as the Big 12, while I think it's fair to say that they have been better over the past few years, I would not call them the best in America. They really only have one team in that Conference that can be considered a National Power IMO, and that is Kansas, of course. But they are getting better and they are coming up. They just aren't at a point where they can compete with the ACC or the Big 10 or what have you. Not yet IMO.

I can agree with this. Big 12 has definitely improved because most of the time it's KU and a bunch of other teams. They are deeper than normal but I don't think their top teams can compete with the big boys. Also, they have to win championships. Them, Pac 12, and the Big 10 hasn't won much in the 2000's.

It's also hard to judge since they only have 10 teams compared to some of the bigger conferences.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I can agree with this. Big 12 has definitely improved because most of the time it's KU and a bunch of other teams. They are deeper than normal but I don't think their top teams can compete with the big boys. Also, they have to win championships. Them, Pac 12, and the Big 10 hasn't won much in the 2000's.

It's also hard to judge since they only have 10 teams compared to some of the bigger conferences.

Agreed. Until they have more skins on the wall (not hanging in Allen Fieldhouse), I am hesitant to list the Big 12 ahead of other conferences.

 

[DFWJC]

Who knows, maybe Texas Tech can catch lightening in a bottle and run the table!
I'd be happy for them. Living in Dallas, I know dozens of Tech grads. Real nice folks. They sure have a helluva baseball program.

But if Tech did win it all (I say 2-3% chance) it would be the first Big 12 title in a decade, and the ONLY non KU champion in modern history.

1946.​

More than 70 years ago, Ok State (coached by the legendary Henry Iba) won it all.
lol Interestingly enough, the team they beat was North Carolina.

 

[DFWJC]

A couple of top 10 teams took a hit this weekend

#8 Houston lost at home to UCF
#4 Kentucky got shelled by 19 points at #7 Tennessee
#6 Michigan St was upset by Indiana
#10 Marquette lost twice this week

#3 Duke split two games this week

#1 Gonzaga, #2 Virginia, #5 N Carolina, #11 Texas Tech all held serve.
The latter two should move up some this week in the rankings.
If #9 Michigan loses to Maryland today (very possible) then Tech could maybe move into the top 8.

 

[DFWJC]

As expected, plenty of changes in the March 4th poll except at the very top.

Last week coming up before conference tourneys begin.

1. Gonzaga
2. Virginia
3. North Carolina
4. Duke
5. Tennessee
6. Kentucky
7. Michigan
8. Texas Tech
9. Michigan St
10. LSU
11. Purdue
12. Houston
13. Kansas
14. Florida St
15. Virginia Tech
16. Marquette
17. Nevada
    
18. Kansas St
19. Buffalo
20. Cincinatti
21. Wisconsin
22. Wolford
23. Villanova
24. Maryland
25. UCF

 

[ClappingCarrot]

I despise UVA with a passion, but good God what a shooting clinic they put on against 'Cuse tonight...

 

[uvaballa]

I despise UVA with a passion, but good God what a shooting clinic they put on against 'Cuse tonight...

Don't be hating lol. They were on fireeeeeee