New Defensive Scheme

[Future]

Doesn't Lawrence play LE?

Yea, but he started to move a bit last year. As a rookie he played RE some, that's where he was when he had the strip-sack in the playoffs against the Lions.

 

[nobody]

Gamesmanship? Is that what they are calling it these days? Back in my day, we called it jive.

And there were lots of jive turkeys around too.

 

[Kaiser]

I might still call you nuts. I will at least concede the possibility, although remote, but with Lawrence and Griffen likely entrenched at DE, and now with the addition of Gregory, there are only going to be so many sack opportunities to go around. And, there still are questions to be answered about what he is capable of after being out of football for 4 1/2 seasons.

But one of @Kolemmitt's points is that Smith is effectively going to be the starting SAM and take half the defensive snaps. The way this defense is constructed and the fact a lot of teams will be passing heavily to play catch up, I don't think 10 sacks from Smith is crazy at all. Optimistic, sure. But if he is half of what he once was, it could happen.

 

[OmerV]

But one of @Kolemmitt's points is that Smith is effectively going to be the starting SAM and take half the defensive snaps. The way this defense is constructed and the fact a lot of teams will be passing heavily to play catch up, I don't think 10 sacks from Smith is crazy at all. Optimistic, sure. But if he is half of what he once was, it could happen.

Is the SAM really going to take half the defensive snaps, and will Gregory cut into that? And won't playing with 3 LBs cut into being able to put in an extra DB on passing downs?

But taking that on face value, 10 sacks isn't a small number, and it would have to come from just playing half the defensive snaps, and he's still a player that has been out of football 4 1/2 seasons. I'm still pretty skeptical.

 

[Kaiser]

Is the SAM really going to take half the defensive snaps, and will Gregory cut into that? And won't playing with 3 LBs cut into being able to put in an extra DB on passing downs?

But taking that on face value, 10 sacks isn't a small number, and it would have to come from just playing half the defensive snaps, and he's still a player that has been out of football 4 1/2 seasons. I'm still pretty skeptical.

Begone with thee!!

Kidding, Gregory isn't on the roster until week 6 and I see him as the guy who takes the snaps backing up Griffen initially. I love Gregory but given the camp reports on Smith battling Tyron Smith, I definitely think he ends the year with a lot more snaps than Gregory.

At the end of the day, its a lot more fun to thread these needles than to read Nick Hayden or Josh Brent threads.

 

[OmerV]

Begone with thee!!

Kidding, Gregory isn't on the roster until week 6 and I see him as the guy who takes the snaps backing up Griffen initially. I love Gregory but given the camp reports on Smith battling Tyron Smith, I definitely think he ends the year with a lot more snaps than Gregory.

At the end of the day, its a lot more fun to thread these needles than to read Nick Hayden or Josh Brent threads.

lol, fair enough. I didn't actually realize Gregory wouldn't be back until week 6. I guess I never read beyond the headline saying he was being reinstated.

 

[Sydla]

My concern with the defense is that we might be going in the complete opposite direction of where we were in previous years. It's been said under Marinelli/Richard that we were pretty predictable and vanilla. But if you read some criticisms of Nolan, there is chatter that his desire to be so multi-faceted and unpredictable has lead to a complex defense that at times can confuse players and has led to breakdowns because the sheer volume of responsibilities leads to players thinking more than actually playing.

Frankly, given his track record as not really producing great defenses consistently, I think this is a warranted concern. He's the one coach hired that I had real questions about.

 

[Future]

Is the SAM really going to take half the defensive snaps, and will Gregory cut into that? And won't playing with 3 LBs cut into being able to put in an extra DB on passing downs?

But taking that on face value, 10 sacks isn't a small number, and it would have to come from just playing half the defensive snaps, and he's still a player that has been out of football 4 1/2 seasons. I'm still pretty skeptical.

No. The SAM is only going to be on the field for about 30% of snaps.

They might do some nickel alignment things where they call the edge the SAM or whatever, but in practice it will be no different than a DE in the nickel. I doubt Smith is going to get 10 sacks for the same reason you do, but if he does, it will be because he's playing some 60% of snaps as an edge.

 

[Kaiser]

lol, fair enough. I didn't actually realize Gregory wouldn't be back until week 6. I guess I never read beyond the headline saying he was being reinstated.

[[INSERT WEED JOKE]]

 

[xwalker]

There is a lot of confusion about our depth chart, the value of Crawford, and why we have so few traditional, off-ball LBs. I think it also makes sense why signing Griffen was not a top priority. A nice bonus? Absolutely! But, a necessity to make this scheme work? Probably not.

So let me quickly try to address some of the front 7 schemes we will see from our new DC. This is just meant to be the basics, in no way an exhaustive look at our new defense, but hopefully, it will clear up some confusion.

First, forget everything you knew about Rod's basic 4-3 scheme. It is as old and predictable as dirt.
For example, Crawford is NOT starting as a base 4-3 RDE, as he did in '18. If we still had Rod, it would have made much more sense to have Griffen or Smith start at the DE across from Tank, rather than Crawford.

This is very close to what our base "4-3" will look like:

According to the depth chart, the 1-tech is Poe, the 3-tech is Hill, and the 5-tech is Crawford. The LEO is DLaw and the starting SAM is Smith. Unlike Rod's defense, the primary role of the three inside guys will be to occupy the OL. Hill takes the LG, Poe occupies the Center and RG and Crawford occupies the RT. This leaves the Tank (or Griffen) one-on-one with the LT. It allows LVE (Mike) and JSmith(Will) to roam freely, while ASmith (Sam/DPR) one-on-one with the TE. I really like what our front seven looks like in this formation. Be warned - Poe, Hill, and Crawford will not fill up the stat sheet in this formation - so many of you will call them trash or JAGs but if LVE, Smith, Smith, Tank, and Griffen have great years, its because the other three are doing their jobs.

We will also see a lot of 3-4. People are a little more familiar with the basics of the 3-4 since we ran it for a number of years, but here is a look at one version of it:

The biggest difference is that Tank/Griffen will be standing up on the edge.

The most fun will come from when we go into the 4-2 nickel and we have our best pass rushers out there at the same time. I imagine we will see a variety of lineups in the "Nascar" package, but the unit that will see the most time is Tank, Griffen, Smith, and every body's favorite whipping boy -Crawford.

I appreciate the effort but a few clarifications:

The top image is identical to a Marinelli front-7 alignment.

DLaw most often played as a 5tech and the RDE most often played as a 7tech in Marinelli's scheme and that's exactly what this image shows.

You really have to look at specific players and not just the alignment.

The 2nd image appears to be from the 2012 season.

The 2nd image is basically identical to the 1st image except the sides are reversed (i.e. The 5tech and 1tech are now on the left side of the defense.
- The LDE is standing up. It could be called a 3-4 but it's really a 4-3 with a stand-up DE.
- #54 is more of a 4-3 type LB at 236 pounds.

This is a run defense alignment, not an exotic pass rush alignment.
- One reason they stand the DE up is for better outside contain vs the run.
- Nolan's key concept is to stop the run with the front-7.
- With the DE standing up, the DBs have less concern about edge contain.

Randy Gregory will be perfect in the stand-up DE role. He can go stride for stride to the sideline with RBs and QBs.
- When a QB like Rodgers tries to roll out, the DBs on that side can stay back in coverage with Gregory easily outrunning Rodgers to the sideline.
- The same play with Gregory with his hand down means he loses about 2 steps if he has to run to the sideline.

 

[xwalker]

There is 0 functional differences between the two pictures. Whether the edge is in a 2- or 3-point means nothing. Anything with Smith and Lawrence on the edge of what is effectively a 5-front might show up 3-4 times per game. Dropping one of them in coverage is a huge waste of their talents, and otherwise, you're committing to a 5-man rush and making it easy for the offense. It's just not a defense that makes a lot of sense in today's NFL.

Teams all run 11 personnel because it mostly eliminates this type of personnell. The "Nascar" package is the one we'll see a lot more of.

That is not always true.

The 49ers made it to the Super Bowl and ran less 3 WR sets than other sets.

Based on team snap counts, the 5th skill position player for the 2019 49ers:
RB: 36% (includes FB)
TE: 34%
WR: 30%

In 2018 the Patriots were 2nd in league with regards to the least snaps played with more than 2 WRs.

 

[xwalker]

• Maybe its just me but having Gregory or A. Smith in coverage scares me.

The stand-up DE will not have any difficult coverage responsibilities like some 3-4 OLBs.

• Stand-up DE Advantages:
  • Run: Better for outside run contain including QB roll outs.
  • Pass: Similar Pass Rush but option to drop into short zone coverage (as the underneath coverage player).

The stand-up DE is unlikely to be in man coverage and will never be a deep defender in zone coverage.

• Example:
  • It's 2014. Green Bay has 3rd and 6 and is within field goal range.
  • Rodgers will throw to Cobb on a quick slant immediately after getting the shotgun snap (Their priority is to avoid a sack).
  • The Nickel CB covering Cobb plays outside leverage (plays as if he knows Cobb will cut outside).
  • The defense drops the stand-up DE on that side into a short zone which puts the DE directly between Rodgers and Cobb on an inside route.
  • The stand-up DE is an extra coverage player in this situation. Normally he would be rushing the passer.
    • It's not as if he is the deep Safety or a CB in man coverage where it becomes a big play if he does not have good coverage.

 

[Whyjerry]

Great post. If you went back in time six months and said "Aldon Smith will get ten sacks for the Cowboys this year", people would have said you were nuts.

Barring injury Smith will lead this team in sacks.

 

[xwalker]

Barring injury Smith will lead this team in sacks.

They'll likely limit A.Smith's snaps this season. A.Smith is returning from 4 years out of football. They have DLaw and Griffen plus Gregory will be returning before mid-season.

His sacks per snaps played might through the roof, but his opportunities will likely be limited.

 

[DanA]

It's been regularly reported that we will play in a variety of plays from the same look. So personnel on the field will be fairly standard, the big change is about placing a greater emphasis on disguising what we are doing. I expect the Rams to play 11 personnel 90% of the time, so forget Aldon Smith at SAM, we aren't gonna play base defense.

What we will do is make it difficult for Sean McVay to run the offense from the sideline like he does. That IMO was Marinelli's biggest failing. He made it too easy to figure out what we were doing. By disguising things we put more pressure on Goff to make the correct pre-snap read, and harder for the team to set blocking assignments. We made it way too easy in the Rams playoff game a couple of years ago, IMO that won't happen again.

 

[buybuydandavis]

My concern with the defense is that we might be going in the complete opposite direction of where we were in previous years. It's been said under Marinelli/Richard that we were pretty predictable and vanilla. But if you read some criticisms of Nolan, there is chatter that his desire to be so multi-faceted and unpredictable has lead to a complex defense that at times can confuse players and has led to breakdowns because the sheer volume of responsibilities leads to players thinking more than actually playing.

Frankly, given his track record as not really producing great defenses consistently, I think this is a warranted concern. He's the one coach hired that I had real questions about.

Life is full of trade offs. Come the playoffs, you better have a complex defense if you want any hope of slowing down the top QBs.

We've gotten big time lucky for pass rush. Adding *one* of Gregory, ASmith, or Griffen would give us a quality DE to pair with Lawrence. Hitting on all 3 is incredible. ASmith and Jaylon available to rush from LB, with Griffen and DLaw able to rush from the ends? That's a great package for some complex blitzing.

 

[fivetwos]

They'll likely limit A.Smith's snaps this season. A.Smith is returning from 4 years out of football. They have DLaw and Griffen plus Gregory will be returning before mid-season.

His sacks per snaps played might through the roof, but his opportunities will likely be limited.

I'd be shocked if he doesnt miss serious time with injury.

His brain and body will not be on the same page, and I don't care what kind of kickboxing shape he is in.

Hope I'm wrong but doubtful.