New WalterFootball Mock

[xwalker]

Anyway, Warmack is definitely better than I thought but he's still slow. His strengths are mass, strength, power blocking and he's actually quite good with his skip block. He's ok with pass protection but he gets too high too often. He's so strong he generally still anchors well. He is not that mobile and he is not going to do a lot of pull pass blocking at the NFL level. He does not move well downfield nor does he block well at the second level. Not at all but if he gets his hands on you then that's it. He's not going to be able to do screens. But his skip block is very good. He works well in close quarters and his feet are good enough there to be effective. Put him in open space and it's a different story. Forget open field blocking where he lunges and still is ineffective. His zone blocking is pretty good BTW. I thought he did ok right or left.

I think you're referring to the 2nd level when he is trying to block on outside type runs. He is great at getting to LBs that are within 5 yards and in a position where he can make a straight line directly to them.

 

[jterrell]

There are some plays against Tennessee and Georgia where Warmack gets blown-up and driven straight back into the QB.

IMO, Cooper is easily in the top 5 in power for Interior OL in this draft.

The only problem with this take... happens to be a big one.

You do not have tape of Cooper facing anyone of the caliber of those monster DTs Warmack faced. Arguing Warmack lost 1 yard versus a 360 pound DT that virtually every other team on the schedule double-teamed is almost hilarious. Bama scored over 30 points in that Georgia game and Warmack was excellent.

Against Maryland Cooper was flat bull rushed multiple times back to the QB.

We can disagree about players and that is expected but anyone arguing Cooper plays with more power than Warmack is simply lying to themselves.

Cooper may end up a better player but he is not right now the stronger, more powerful player. His video work is impressive but he doesn't stonewall guys then move to level 2. He touches them and flies to the second level where he looks like a TE. Very impressive athletically but also quite suspect at the NFL level when it will be much harder to handle the initial defender.

Cooper is very much like Tyron Smith. He is very athletic and has an enormous ceiling but he also will need to work on adding raw strength and moving people in short areas.

 

[jterrell]

Ok, I went back and looked at Warmack against LSU, TN, and ND and then Cooper against Duke, Maryland and another I can't seem to remember now.

First the level of competition in a good bit different although ND looked more like the AC level. TN wasn't bad nor LSU. Maryland much better than Duke. I think the other team was VA or VT?? Noticeable difference between the SEC and the ACC.

Anyway, Warmack is definitely better than I thought but he's still slow. His strengths are mass, strength, power blocking and he's actually quite good with his skip block. He's ok with pass protection but he gets too high too often. He's so strong he generally still anchors well. He is not that mobile and he is not going to do a lot of pull pass blocking at the NFL level. He does not move well downfield nor does he block well at the second level. Not at all but if he gets his hands on you then that's it. He's not going to be able to do screens. But his skip block is very good. He works well in close quarters and his feet are good enough there to be effective. Put him in open space and it's a different story. Forget open field blocking where he lunges and still is ineffective. His zone blocking is pretty good BTW. I thought he did ok right or left.

Cooper does not have the mass and strength of Warmack but he's good for his body type. He has room to add some mass. His feet are very good and he moves well pulling to either side side including pulling to pass block. He is very good in space NFL ready there. He can get to the second level easily and he even gets beyond that and moves very well for a big guy. His power blocking is ok to good and nothing like Warmack. His zone blocking is better than Warmack but he does slide off defenders some which Warmack doesn't. He has adequate power in the ZB. He anchors well and generally gets good bend, extension and has a good base. He just isn't as strong as Warmack in pass blocking but he's much more mobile and keeps in front of his guy mostly. He leaves his feet too much pulling esp at the second level. He's going to have to stop that are they will retaliate eventually.

They are two different kinds of players and I think Cooper has more room to improve. I think Warmack is just going to improve with some footwork, bending and anchoring better. He stands up at times. He's NFL ready although he'll improve some over a year or so. If Cooper gets stronger and more massive without losing his feet and mobility then he can be special. He does not have the butt or thighs like Warmack and likely never will.

Both are ready to start although Warmack is more ready due to his strength and drive blocking. Cooper will be the better pass protector and be more versatile for Garrett's offense.

You choose.

Very fair write up overall.

I think you underestimate Warmack's ability to block on the 2nd level and your "skip block" is actually him passing a guy to Barrett then moving to the 2nd level and is by far the best we've seen in college football in years. Cooper may skip block but Warmack literally blocks the guy and then moves on. This is largely due to competition and teaching. In the SEC you block the DT or you eat a 3 yard loss. In the ACC you are playing for big gains and want the OL down the field fast.

Warmack isn't as smooth moving to his right for some reason. No where near the puller Cooper is and when Warmack has to run to the right to block the other side of center it isn't often pretty. Because Warmack's footwork is very sharp to his left there is hope he can improve moving to the right. But pulling and getting out in front won't be his forte clearly.

If you want a better Kyle Kosier than Jonathon Cooper is that guy. If you want an end of career Larry Allen then Warmack is your guy.

 

[btcutter]

"slow as a Cow"-Joberrone.

He may not be as athletic as Cooper but he's not bad either. Where he does excel and is better than Cooper is his power. He just need to jam you with one arm and that jolts back DT. One of our biggest issues was our interior OL leaked like sleeve. Warmack will definitely plug that hole and open many for our RB especially short yardage situation.

I would be very happy with either G.

However I think we will draft a DT in the 1st round.

 

[morasp]

Very fair write up overall.

I think you underestimate Warmack's ability to block on the 2nd level and your "skip block" is actually him passing a guy to Barrett then moving to the 2nd level and is by far the best we've seen in college football in years. Cooper may skip block but Warmack literally blocks the guy and then moves on. This is largely due to competition and teaching. In the SEC you block the DT or you eat a 3 yard loss. In the ACC you are playing for big gains and want the OL down the field fast.

Warmack isn't as smooth moving to his right for some reason. No where near the puller Cooper is and when Warmack has to run to the right to block the other side of center it isn't often pretty. Because Warmack's footwork is very sharp to his left there is hope he can improve moving to the right. But pulling and getting out in front won't be his forte clearly.

If you want a better Kyle Kosier than Jonathon Cooper is that guy. If you want an end of career Larry Allen then Warmack is your guy.

Do you think Warmack would get outquicked by NFL DTs in pass protection?

 

[tm1119]

Do you think Warmack would get outquicked by NFL DTs in pass protection?

I really don't think there is much, if any, difference between Warmack and Cooper quickness wise within the 1st 1-5 yards. Warmack is deceptively quick for such a big man. After those 5 yards Cooper is head a shoulders faster and better, but I'm wouldn't be worried about Wamack at or near the LOS in any capacity.

 

[Eskimo]

One thing that people are forgetting here is that the superior coaching, talent and competition Warmack has faced may have already maxed him out on his development curve. That is, he may not progress much unlike most rookies who come into the NFL and make major improvement and peak around year 3-5. Someone put up an article about Alabama players being more NFL-ready than anywhere else but also that they weren't experiencing the typical growth most players have in the NFL because their coaching in college is so superior.

All this argues is that however good they are right now, there is a much better chance that Cooper is going to improve majorly than Warmack. Warmack right now has issues that are obvious in college so we can expect them to be even worse in the pros when he faces better competition. Many of Cooper's issues were due to lack of mass and he has gained 15-20 pounds since the season ended and still tested out very explosive and fast and did not look sloppy physically. I agree that Warmack's floor may be a bit higher but Cooper's ceiling looks way higher to me and the floor is high enough to expect at least a quality starter. I also think Cooper fits better with what we are trying to do and that's why I think he should be the pick should he be available.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

I don't know about you all but if we got this draft I'd be stoked.

18. Chance Warmack OG Bama
47. DaMontre Moore DE TAMU
80. Bennie Logan DT LSU
114.Stephan Taylor RB STANFORD
151.Jordan Hill DT PENN ST
185.Conner Vernon WR DUKE

Warmack/Cooper in the first and i'm happy.

 

[jobberone]

I think you're referring to the 2nd level when he is trying to block on outside type runs. He is great at getting to LBs that are within 5 yards and in a position where he can make a straight line directly to them.

Yes, I'm saying he has a very good skip block and he blocks well in a crowd. He just can't block in space.

 

[jobberone]

He may not be as athletic as Cooper but he's not bad either. Where he does excel and is better than Cooper is his power. He just need to jam you with one arm and that jolts back DT. One of our biggest issues was our interior OL leaked like sleeve. Warmack will definitely plug that hole and open many for our RB especially short yardage situation.

I would be very happy with either G.

However I think we will draft a DT in the 1st round.

He's not very good in space and I find that related more to athleticism. But we are using vague terms. I did remember his problems blocking on the outside and space but I didn't remember him having that good of a skip block or even doing that well in ZB.

 

[morasp]

I really don't think there is much, if any, difference between Warmack and Cooper quickness wise within the 1st 1-5 yards. Warmack is deceptively quick for such a big man. After those 5 yards Cooper is head a shoulders faster and better, but I'm wouldn't be worried about Wamack at or near the LOS in any capacity.

Thanks, I don't usually watch highlights of offensive lineman but I watched his this morning. He looks like a beast in small areas but in space I don't see how we could count on him to pull or on screen passes.