NFL: Gil Brandt's 25 greatest NFL running backs of all time (Emmitt 11th)

[pitt33]

Whoa. Whipped out the "hoss".

I must say...coming from a 58 year old man like myself...

That was pretty funny.

 

[CowboyStar88]

Address your posts? You got it.

What is actually happening here? Every single moment of my life or anyone else's can be elaborated on by one single phrase: "To What Benefit?" I love this phrase. If you ever do something, anything, ask this. Eat a pizza. Ask. Watch TV. Ask. Go Work out. Great place to ask. Post continually in this thread, contradicting other people. To What Benefit?

So what is happening? Are we having a 1v1 debate about who is the greatest RB of alltime? I contend no. You know why. Look how you're responding to people. You're building what is called on the internet 'heads on sticks.' You shove them into the ground in a circle around you, and then you sit in the middle, intending to scare away others. You may not be consciously thinking this, but it's why people harass others, insult others, troll others. To get a rise out of them. To get them to do or act how they wouldn't otherwise. Do you just normally attack people? I don't believe that, and neither do you. You have motive, and gain to make. "But I haven't attacked or harrased anyone!"


Get the hell out. GTHO. For those unfamiliar with internet tough guy lingo. Just because I don't have a subjective opinion identical to yours. Okay, upstanding member of society.


I have said nothing personal to or about you, and you've already gotten this far.


Regardless of whatever I posted to you that was not in any way personal, I have outright P'ed you off. As you so elegantly explained to another poster. You hate me, you're pissed off, and you want me to get the hell out. Fair?



Not original, it's a mob mentality, so we can let this one pass.


regurgitating? punk move? calling someone a bad *** to prove your point?

I have found lots of your posts that I'm specifically addressing. Remember the post where I said all this stuff about you? Where I insulted you? Where anyone else attempted to insult anyone else? But look at all this. All this I'm responding to. Oh! You mean specifically address the Emmit posts you made? Why? What was my first post in this thread? I didn't push a narrative on someone, I didn't reply to your post saying you're wrong. I simply stated a list, like so many others. That didn't have Emmitt at the top, like others. Every time you tried to tear it down, I specifically responded to my post. My points to defend them. I know it may hurt, But I don't care who your number 1 rb is. No matter how many times you try and force feed people. But then again, I never came into this thread to push people into liking mine. Like you seem to be doing. So we have to ask, one more time....

To what benefit? Look at the posts you make. Heads on sticks. You have absolutely no intention of changing your mind. You only read to respond, not to listen. Because subconsciously, you also know this isn't a 1v1. We're not in a dark room, talking to only ourselves. This is a public stage. We're influencing other people by our posts. Maybe they were on the fence. Insult the guy who makes the best argument so much that he runs. Now you can be the influencer.

But that doesn't work on everyone. And that's why this is my favorite post in the entire thread. Respond to your Emmitt posts? No. I'd love to have my mind changed. But you're going to have to do a lot better than you are to get there. So far, I've seen zero worth responding to. You obviously find my posts relevant enough to retort, because I know they are. Make sure to keep predicting what I'll do, "No PFR, because it makes my argument more shaky!" "Everyone, see! I told him not to do it, and he did it! You're gonna run now, right?"

We've got heads on sticks.

I hate Eagles fans


Never forget your fans boo’d a paralyzed Irvin... Yea you get zero respect from me. You support that garbage and 100% apart of that. So I’ll side with the trout man.

 

[GenoT]

A high percentage of Barry Sanders carries went for negative yardage by getting caught dancing in the back field.
I've always said when Barry and Emmitt were still in the league that Barry was a great runner but Emmitt was a great running back.

Then again, imagine Barry, with Moose at FB, running behind Emmitt’s O-line, while having Troy and that era’s Cowboys receivers to take the pressure off.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

I hate Eagles fans


Never forget your fans boo’d a paralyzed Irvin... Yea you get zero respect from me. You support that garbage and 100% apart of that. So I’ll side with the trout man.

Siding with him in no reference to the actual argument at hand? That seems about right.

And I thought they cheered Irvin? Which would be worse?

 

[CowboyStar88]

Here’s my top 10 RB. I don’t care how many yards or rings they had. If I didn’t see them play I’m not counting them. In no particular order except I start every great list with the most dominating RB I ever saw. And second is most gifted. Earl and OJ are my 2 greatest.

That doesn’t mean everyone I left off is chop liver. Everyone else is best of the rest which is still quite an impressive HOF list. And I’d have no problem placing Emmit in the next 10.

Earl Campbell
OJ Simpson
Gayle Sayers
Barry Sanders
Tony Dorsett
Eric Dickerson
Bo Jackson
Walter Payton
Herschel Walker
Jim Brown

You know DB I was just coming around to you this off-season and you just had to post this.. good god man Emmitt out of the top 10? Can’t even begin to fathom that. You’ve got Herschel and Bo ahead of Emmitt. While both were good players neither one of them were the complete backs Emmitt was. How anyone can put a player who rushed for 2700 yards over Emmitt is beyond me. Sorry man just how I see it.

 

[Trouty]

Address your posts? You got it.

What is actually happening here? Every single moment of my life or anyone else's can be elaborated on by one single phrase: "To What Benefit?" I love this phrase. If you ever do something, anything, ask this. Eat a pizza. Ask. Watch TV. Ask. Go Work out. Great place to ask. Post continually in this thread, contradicting other people. To What Benefit?

So what is happening? Are we having a 1v1 debate about who is the greatest RB of alltime? I contend no. You know why. Look how you're responding to people. You're building what is called on the internet 'heads on sticks.' You shove them into the ground in a circle around you, and then you sit in the middle, intending to scare away others. You may not be consciously thinking this, but it's why people harass others, insult others, troll others. To get a rise out of them. To get them to do or act how they wouldn't otherwise. Do you just normally attack people? I don't believe that, and neither do you. You have motive, and gain to make. "But I haven't attacked or harrased anyone!"


Get the hell out. GTHO. For those unfamiliar with internet tough guy lingo. Just because I don't have a subjective opinion identical to yours. Okay, upstanding member of society.


I have said nothing personal to or about you, and you've already gotten this far.


Regardless of whatever I posted to you that was not in any way personal, I have outright P'ed you off. As you so elegantly explained to another poster. You hate me, you're pissed off, and you want me to get the hell out. Fair?



Not original, it's a mob mentality, so we can let this one pass.


regurgitating? punk move? calling someone a bad *** to prove your point?

I have found lots of your posts that I'm specifically addressing. Remember the post where I said all this stuff about you? Where I insulted you? Where anyone else attempted to insult anyone else? But look at all this. All this I'm responding to. Oh! You mean specifically address the Emmit posts you made? Why? What was my first post in this thread? I didn't push a narrative on someone, I didn't reply to your post saying you're wrong. I simply stated a list, like so many others. That didn't have Emmitt at the top, like others. Every time you tried to tear it down, I specifically responded to my post. My points to defend them. I know it may hurt, But I don't care who your number 1 rb is. No matter how many times you try and force feed people. But then again, I never came into this thread to push people into liking mine. Like you seem to be doing. So we have to ask, one more time....

To what benefit? Look at the posts you make. Heads on sticks. You have absolutely no intention of changing your mind. You only read to respond, not to listen. Because subconsciously, you also know this isn't a 1v1. We're not in a dark room, talking to only ourselves. This is a public stage. We're influencing other people by our posts. Maybe they were on the fence. Insult the guy who makes the best argument so much that he runs. Now you can be the influencer.

But that doesn't work on everyone. And that's why this is my favorite post in the entire thread. Respond to your Emmitt posts? No. I'd love to have my mind changed. But you're going to have to do a lot better than you are to get there. So far, I've seen zero worth responding to. You obviously find my posts relevant enough to retort, because I know they are. Make sure to keep predicting what I'll do, "No PFR, because it makes my argument more shaky!" "Everyone, see! I told him not to do it, and he did it! You're gonna run now, right?"

We've got heads on sticks.

Seriously dude, I apologize for the way I posted at you. I get easily angered. This is a quality post and you're right.

Still, you're addressing my lack of tact, now, which is fine. Deserved even. But I addressed your points on the OPs subject. Many times.

 

[CowboyStar88]

Siding with him in no reference to the actual argument at hand? That seems about right.

And I thought they cheered Irvin? Which would be worse?

No that he hates you. I hate all eagles fans especially for what I just posted. Zero respect for your kind.

 

[Trouty]

I very much like that you brought up PFR. It shows that you know if I started diving into it, I'll find stuff you're trying to dodge. Let's look at FACTS. Not truths, not rules, not bias, just FACTS.

Superbowl Rings. If this is a real argument, and you are actually insisting that your football acumen come down to who's backup rbs have more rings, then only use this argument. No one can beat it. But Eli had better be top 10 on that QB list you got, because you and I both know these matter a lot more to the credit of a qb than a rb. So if they matter so much to Emmitt that it must be used to reference him with Barry, then Eli is your dream guy. Troy, Eli, Jim Plunkett... Marino who?

Every RB with 12,000 career rushing yards:

1 Emmitt Smith 18,355
2 Walter Payton 16,726
3 Barry Sanders 15,269
4 Curtis Martin 14,101
5 FRANK GORE 14,026
6 LaDainian Tomlinson 13,684
7 Jerome Bettis 13,662
8 Eric Dickerson 13,259
9 Tony Dorsett 12,739
10 Jim Brown 12,312
11 Marshall Faulk 12,279
12 ADRIAN PETERSON 12,276
13 Edgerrin James 12,246
14 Marcus Allen 12,243
15 Franco Harris 12,120
16 Thurman Thomas 12,074

Go through that list. Name the defensive stars who played with those RBs. Chuck Haley, Mike Singletary, Junior Seau. The QBs, Bradshaw, Kelly, Staubach, Warner. The Coaches, Parcells, Levy, Dungy. The Olineman, Orlando Pace, Joe Staley, Will Shields. Note the famous playoff wins. The Epic Championship games. Adrian in 09 against the Saints. Frank Gore in 11 and 12, back to back. And then there's one name that doesn't quite fit. Barry's coaching was bad, his Oline was bad, his defenses were stereotypically bad, his qb play was substandard, and they never went anywhere. Regardless of what Barry did. Regardless of how vocal he may have been. Let's switch the narrative. Instead of Barry on the Cowboys, what if Emmitt was on the Lions. Would he have 18,000 yards? Would he have 3 rings? Of course, his leadership was great, right? How much are those rings worth to his legacy specifically as a rb if he needed the cowboys to get them?

How do you really value a player? In my opinion, there are three ways to structure your argument. 1: Baseball argument. Career totals, regardless of the minutia in which he got there. This many total yard, this many tds, this many games played. 2: My subjectively preferred: Prime. Who was he when he was actually good. Not when he was learning after college or breaking apart at the end, but in his prime years, (RB 25-29), what was he? Was he consistent through his prime? 3: Individual seasons/moments. The Kurt Warner argument. "Yeah, most of his career was bipolar, but 99, 01, and 08 sure were great, weren't they?" Which one of these is Emmitt actually superior to Barry?

Individual season shouldn't be much debate, Barry went for 2000 yards in 1997 on only 335 carries, for a crazy 6.1 ypc. Emmitt's closest... maybe 1995 when his 1773 took him a whopping 377 carries to achieve?

How about prime, what did each one look like from 25 to 29?
Emmitt: In those 5 years, Emmitt had 1652 Attempts, 6867 yards, 4.2 yards per attempt, 75 tds, (we'll get to that in a minute).
Barry: fewer carries at 1503, way more yards at 8104, way better ypc at 5.3, and a solid 43 tds.

and then finally, there's....

Total Yards. Saying Emmitt put in 5 more years, FIVE just so he could get only 3000 more yards than Barry doesn't exactly invoke amazement. Barry could still play when he retired, that doesn't make him worse of a running back because he didn't drag his feet until he was 35. Each individual run, Barry was worth more. If you averaged their careers over 200 total carries, Barry would have 1000 yards. Emmitt would have 840. That is a substantial difference. "Yards per attempt? Pff, half of it was lost in Arizona, that's cherry picking." Actually, that's not correct. He had so many carries in Dallas, the ones he had in Arizona had minimal effect on his career average. 4.2 yards per carry in dallas, 4.2 yards per carry for his career. Emmitt was only top dog in the NFL 4 times in rushing yards. In 15 seasons. Barry was top dog 4 times. In 10 seasons. He ran less, got more yards from it, made more pro bowls in 2/3 the seasons, was first team all-pro more often (no, really), and also, his team's defense.

When you're routinely behind by 2 touchdowns in the third quarter, what do you start doing? Pass. Like the Lions. When you're routinely up by 2 touchdowns in the third quarter, what do you do? Run Emmitt. Like the Cowboys. Did you know Barry Sanders never rushed 350 times in a season? Not even the year he hit TWO THOUSAND YARDS? Did you know that in a 5 year span early in Emmitt's career, there was only 1 season that he didn't run 350 times? Yet only 3000 more yards in 5 more seasons. And Jerome Bettis has more yards than Jim Brown, just because he played for longer. How many lists even care about that? Durable? Heck yeah. Actually better at running? Well...

What about that durability? Maybe the total numbers would have been greater for Emmitt if not for his various minor injuries? Emmit averaged 19.5 carriers per game for 81 yards every game, Barry averaged 20 carries for 99.8 yards every game. Nevermind.

Oh yeah, one last thing:

Nose for the endzone. I actually build in a disclaimer previously for this one, because this is the Dallas Cowboy's version of Godwin's Law. If you're ever backed in a corner with Emmitt Smith, just say he's the best ever at finding the endzone, and you're safe. But was he really?

In Emmitt's 10 best consecutive years in the nfl, he had 136 rushing tds. We went with 10 years, because Barry only played 10. In Barry's 10, he had 99. However, in those 10 years, the Lions ran for 153 tds. What does that mean? We all know they pulled him in the redzone to preserve him, and had big fat leeching RBs take those tds. But what about all the drives that ended in field goals because Barry wasn't in the game? We'll never know. But we do know that they only took advantage of having Barry Sanders for a whopping 64% of their rushing tds. That's alarmingly low. What do you think Emmitt's # was? How often did you see him pulled inside the 10 yard line? Am I stating this to make the case that Barry is superior in the redzone? No, Emmitt and Marcus Allen are the GOATs. But am I stating this to portray it isn't nearly as wide a discrepancy as a generic career stats can make it look? Heck yeah.

Hey look, I credited Emmitt with something better than Barry. Again, I have him third, I'm not bagging on Emmitt at all. There's just some odd misinformation going around about Barry Sanders. You won't find any truths here, just facts.

I mean, even the stats argument. Emmitt is at the top. Go check out all time TDs, too. What are we arguing here?

 

[Diehardblues]

You know DB I was just coming around to you this off-season and you just had to post this.. good god man Emmitt out of the top 10? Can’t even begin to fathom that. You’ve got Herschel and Bo ahead of Emmitt. While both were good players neither one of them were the complete backs Emmitt was. How anyone can put a player who rushed for 2700 yards over Emmitt is beyond me. Sorry man just how I see it.

Because my list is on raw freakish talent not career accomplishments.

 

[Trouty]

@Aerolithe_Lion

Do you get to have sidebars where you acquiesce then brush off the stats that support Emmitt's nose for the endzone, but when it's YPC/yds/game it's kosher?

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Do you get to have sidebars where you acquiesce the stats that support Emmitt's nose for the endzone, but if it's YPC/Yds/game it's kosher?

I actually talked about it in that post you just commented on, how emmitt score 136 during Barry's career, and the Lions ran 153 during that span but took him out. I guess it's his fault?

 

[Trouty]

I actually talked about it in that post you just commented on, how emmitt score 136 during Barry's career, and the Lions ran 153 during that span but took him out. I guess it's his fault?

It isn't about fault. It's about career glory and legacy and talent and everything else I've mentioned

 

[wrongway]

Don't play games with me Eagles fan, you read my posts, address them as I have addressed yours.

Emmitt was a far, far superior leader of men. Of Football players. His ability to run in crowded space was elite. His ability to block was elite. His vision was elite. His ability to find the end zone was elite. Combine all of that you have a more well-rounded football player than Sanders ever dreamed of in his wettest of dreams.

Emmitts

One of the detractions about Emmitt, and will also be for Zeke, is the offensive line he ran behind.

However, to that I say Bull Nuggets.

Now remember the first SB. Think back to the highlights. You see Emmitt run one in from about 14 out. He gets his first contact by a linebacker who tried to wrap him up a step or so past the hole. Emmitt grabbed his wrist and kept him from getting his arm around Emmitt's waist.

I had never seen a RB do that before.

But consider all the RB's you've seen and how many would have been stopped in the hole. Or how many times Emmitt broke tackles, spun out of contact and went for a long run, or TD.

I admire Sanders, and his speed and agility was mind blowing. But Emmitt didn't have that speed and received more contact and posted better numbers. And Emmitt did not get hurt.

We all know the story of the shoulder. He finished the game, and was the reason they went to the SB that year. Jimmy rode that horse on almost every play for the rest of that game.

Toughness, vision, deceptive speed, elusive, threat in the passing game, great blocker, solid teammate, and class act. The only minus I see in Emmitt was his weird attitude about giving autographs to kids.

There is no way this guy is not top five, and frankly I think top three.

Brown at 1, no problem.
Peyton at 2, no problem.
Anyone but Emmitt at 3, we have a problem.

And on game day, you can bet your rear end the defense didn't think Emmitt was # freakin' 11.

I have never seen a back without looking grab a guys arm like that . So casual like. It is funny how virtually no other great player gets that, well he played with so and so crap, like 22 did. Never hear that about say Joe Montana.

 

[Trouty]

I actually talked about it in that post you just commented on, how emmitt score 136 during Barry's career, and the Lions ran 153 during that span but took him out. I guess it's his fault?

So you're saying because Barry had **** ownership he got shafted (agree) thus it makes him the best because if he was in Dallas he would have done everything 22 did and more (disagree)?

Is that about right?

 

[Diehardblues]

I mean, even the stats argument. Emmitt is at the top. Go check out all time TDs, too. What are we arguing here?

All time leading stats don't always describe the best or most talented.

Besides he was still ranked 11th. Would you have felt better if it was top 10? I’d best most fans without Cowboys rose colored glasses would agree.

But we haven’t had as many great RB last 25-30 years. Maybe this is more of a generational divide. Remember Gil is in his 80’s.

Emmitt prob is Top 5 in last couple generations.

 

[Aviano90]

Emmitt was the perfect running back for that team and that's the only thing that matters.

 

[Diehardblues]

Most of the greatest RB were from the 60’s, 7o’s and 80’s.

Rule changes moved priority to passing. Emmit no doubt is one of the greatest since the 90’s.

 

[Cowpolk]

All time leading stats don't always describe the best or most talented.

Besides he was still ranked 11th. Would you have felt better if it was top 10? I’d best most fans without Cowboys rose colored glasses would agree.

But we haven’t had as many great RB last 25-30 years. Maybe this is more of a generational divide. Remember Gil is in his 80’s.

Emmitt prob is Top 5 in last couple generations.

Emmett was raw talent

 

[mcmvp]

A high percentage of Barry Sanders carries went for negative yardage by getting caught dancing in the back field.
I've always said when Barry and Emmitt were still in the league that Barry was a great runner but Emmitt was a great running back.

Which makes his 5.0 ypc career average even more impressive. And you simply can’t compare the olines. Emmitt had a much better one....better than Walter’s too.

I understand that on a Cowboys forum, the majority will see things in Emmitt’s favor...and that’s fine. I’ll just say not everyone out there thinks he’s the best ever simply because of the yardage record.

 

[Diehardblues]

Emmitt was the perfect running back for that team and that's the only thing that matters.

Very true.

So you're saying because Barry had **** ownership he got shafted (agree) thus it makes him the best because if he was in Dallas he would have done everything 22 did and more (disagree)?

Is that about right?

You did watch Sanders play? Right??

You still thought Emmitt had more raw god given ability and talent?

Gil’s list isn’t about best careers.

Emmitt as one poster above said correctly was great for Dallas. Nothing else matters but that doesn’t mean he was the greatest back in NFL.